RAF Observers

[langleybaston]

If I have recalled this before, apologies in advance.

A colleague was briefly brevetted with M for Met.Observer, and was required to report to an HQ for some reason.

Whilst waiting to be summoned, a senior officer passing by asked him what the M represented.

"Flying Midwife sir, lots of trooping flights with pregnant wives on board".

Lived to tell the tale.

[Tankertrashnav]

Re the NBS course

H2S magnetron frequency 9375 MHz, klystron frequency 9330 MHz, giving a beat frequency of 45 MHz. Learned in 1970 - never forgotten.

But why can't I remember what I've come upstairs for

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, now why did I think it was 9310?

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Ron Cake

In the banter about AEO's who reached high rank you introduced the name of a two star who, in the mid 70's, was done for 'cottageing'. He was, in fact, a pilot and not an AEO. ...thought I'd mention it.

Thank you, I know he was very hands on and wrote on a staff paper when he was OC at SM "What about the straffing Backfire". I then had to convince my staish that the Backfire was unlikely to strafe and that its best weapon against the MPA was a 500 kg retard stick right down the flight line. My staish then made me contact Strike to confirm which they kindly did,

But I don't think they had the option to remain in the GD branch after one tour.

Apart from the loss of flying pay the Eng I knew was quite happy to hang up his helmet and work in an office with windows.

[Ancient93]

RAF Air Observer

The earlier RAF aircrew role of Air Observer included navigation, bomb aiming, air gunnery, air photgraphy and reconnaisance. It was a lenghty training period. By 1942/3 the four engined a/c were coming into use and decisions were made to split many of the duties of Air Observer - hence a specialist Bomb Aimer role and with the use of powered gun turrets, specialist Air Gunners. Coincidentally the Air Observer role was discontinued and a specailist Navigator role came into being. This specialisation also permitted a significant reduction in training time.
The brevet of an Air Observer - the single-winged "O" (incidentally I believe it was the "oldest" RAF brevet stemming from the artilliary Observers up in their balloons in 1914) was the source of much ribbing by pilots ("Drivers, airframe) - who often called us "Flying orrifices" (or similar). Needless to say we who were privilged to qualify as Air Observers greatly value our position in both Bomber and Coastal Commands of the RAF. Any queries I'll be happy to try and answer them.

[Union Jack]

Gaining an RAF Air Observer's Brevet in WW1

Now that's got a certain ring to it as a thread title, Sir, and I'm pretty certain that Danny would greatly appreciate any input you may care to add to http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...evet-ww11.html !

Jack

[BBadanov]

In the 1950's and 60's it was not unusual to see aircrew of more advanced years sporting the 'O' brevet. I assumed it was because they were proud of having qualified as an Observer and wanted nothing to do with any new fangled 'N' brevet.

I bet there are are some WSO's who have declined the new badge and continue to wear their 'N' and 'AE' brevets. Same thing, really.


Meanwhile, out in the Empire...
The RAAF changed last decade from "Nav" to the "ACO" (air combat officer) category.
The wing changed from "N" to a double wing - same shape as a pilot's, but with the Southern Cross stars in the centre (designed by nav John M---r).


This was to catch up with the RCAF (which brought in the double wing in about the 1960s, with a globe of the earth in the centre). And the Yanks have always had double wings. Actually, the real reason the RAAF changed was for PR and try and make the job more attractive for recruiting.


The ACO category also brought in the Fighter Controllers !!! WTF I hear you say. I would rather see them labelled "FC", but not only did it bring in the flying AEW type chaps, it also included ground-based FCs !!
So a chap (or chapesse) might never have stepped into an aircraft, but was awarded wings!


So it was one step forward, three mighty steps for mankind backwards...

[Darvan]

What?.......Will you be awarding brevets (wings) to ATC controllers and Ops Support personnel aswell? What about the good chaps that fix our kites also? (I missed the Blitz my Aussie friend, did you make it this year?)

[ancientaviator62]

This is the qualification page from a copy of a log book. As I have lost touch with the owner of the original log book I have blanked out the gentleman's name.
He survived the war as a Wing Commander and was OC a bomber squadron by the end of hostilities.

[Tengah Type]

As I understand it, in the 60s and 70s, the rules for wearing flying badges/brevets were that you had to wear your current brevet; but after you were no longer appointable to flying duties you could wear any brevet you had been entitled to.

So lots of ex "O" brevet wearers were still in the RAF but no longer flying.

There was a Wing Commander Admin at Topcliffe who wore either an "O" or Pilots Wings as the mood took him.

The rules may still apply.

[HAS59]

Flying What?

My old mate Bill, who is sadly not with us any more, was an Observer on Maritime Wellingtons, 621 Squadron in and around Aden. He said he was on the last course to qualify as an Observer in August 1943. This was at No 44 Air School (AONS) Advanced Air Observer Navigation School - Grahamstown in South Africa.

We used to rib him a bit when we learned that the O-Brevet was referred to as a 'Flying A***hole'. He used to just smile as he was proud of it. He went on to say that the N brevet stood for Not good enough to be a pilot. Which may even be true in some cases.


The Observers course he did was pretty intense, going by his log book which I have. Flying was on Oxfords and Ansons, navigation & bombing (day and night), photo reconnaissance, air gunnery, fighter evasion, sea patrol, then low level navigation and bombing.


When he qualified he was promoted to sergeant and was on 13 shillings and sixpence a day!

[ian16th]

It may be of interest that the South African Air Force has just gained 10 newly qualified pilots, 5 navigators, 6 flight engineers and 1 loadmaster.

The South African Air Force

[reynoldsno1]

but it would appear that more AEOp/AEOs have switched to the new WSO brevet than Navs

Funny, I flew on Nimrod MR.1's with a Master Signaller who refused to change to AEOp, even though he would have got a pay rise ...

[BBadanov]

Funny, I flew on Nimrod MR.1's with a Master Signaller who refused to change to AEOp, even though he would have got a pay rise ...


Maybe a loss of their perceived status... Having achieved "Master", didn't want to be in the masses as an AEOp ?

[ValMORNA]

There was a 'Master Nav' on our transport squadron in the middle east in the mid-1950's whose technique was to stand with his head in the astrodome, look around outside, step down and mark our position on his chart. That was the significance of someone wearing an Observer brevet. An observer by trade and a master of bullsh!t3 by rank.

[reynoldsno1]

Maybe a loss of their perceived status... Having achieved "Master", didn't want to be in the masses as an AEOp ?

Err, no - "Master" refers to his rank, i.e. a Warrant Officer with aircrew qualification. He could have become a MAEOp, but preferred to retain his original qualification ....

[charliegolf]

Then Brian MacLaren went from Sgt AEOp to Air Cdre

He was the AAITC staff when I was in 79 ish.

CG

[nimbev]

two star who, in the mid 70's, was done for 'cottageing'. He was, in fact, a pilot

I know that most of those posting here have memory problems - time flies by either too fast or too slowly - but the incident in question was 1989/90. (not that I was there I hasten to add)

[thing]

Forgive my naivity but is 'cottageing' the same as 'dogging'?

[Willard Whyte]

You could always Google them. At work.