Chinook pilot v RAF Movers
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Conversely, if no-one point's out the failings in a system it can never be improved. Bitching when the shortfalls are mentioned rather than fixing them is a worse reflection on the complainees than the complainer..
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November4:
So.. You seriously think that no-one complains to these people face to face? You really think that movers swan through life thinking that are doing the perfect job because it isn't until two years later that someone pops out a whine in a book that they suddenly realize everything is not well in the kingdom of Denmark????
Please... Tell me you aren't that naive....
And to do it in a book a couple of years after the event rather than at the time is really the way to sort out shortfalls.
Please... Tell me you aren't that naive....
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No I am not saying that AA and am sure that people do complain at the time. But who do they complain to? The SAC / Cpl who has said no? Or to the DAMO / Officer? Or do they save it up until the can complain on here or in a book years later?
But here's a question - who has actually read the book or the passage that this thread is all about?
Why do you think he was no able to get on an aircraft?
Was it because he was not booked to the flight and turned up saying he needed to go home...or was he booked to the flight and the Mover was being bloody minded and said he couldn't fly for now other reason than he could.
If he needed to get home due to say complications with his wife who was pregnant why was he not booked or why didn't his chain of command use the Comp System?
I'm afraid that the 3 or 4 pages where he says about his problems in getting home come across as a case of "I'm aircrew and an officer put me on that plane". Especially with a comment along the lines of it's a big aircraft, 1 more pax won't make any difference or affect the trim just show.
I totally disagree with the comments and reviews on Amazon. There are far more appropriate ways to complain about the book than that. Likewise there are some Movers who are difficult and will stick to the rules no matter what but if he had turned up with the proper auth then he would have flown home and not had to write a rant in his book.
But here's a question - who has actually read the book or the passage that this thread is all about?
Why do you think he was no able to get on an aircraft?
Was it because he was not booked to the flight and turned up saying he needed to go home...or was he booked to the flight and the Mover was being bloody minded and said he couldn't fly for now other reason than he could.
If he needed to get home due to say complications with his wife who was pregnant why was he not booked or why didn't his chain of command use the Comp System?
I'm afraid that the 3 or 4 pages where he says about his problems in getting home come across as a case of "I'm aircrew and an officer put me on that plane". Especially with a comment along the lines of it's a big aircraft, 1 more pax won't make any difference or affect the trim just show.
I totally disagree with the comments and reviews on Amazon. There are far more appropriate ways to complain about the book than that. Likewise there are some Movers who are difficult and will stick to the rules no matter what but if he had turned up with the proper auth then he would have flown home and not had to write a rant in his book.
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I have a Big Chopper.
So somebody who has broken aviation law is deserving of awards are they? Glad that it has been noted down with names of his "friend" pilot on the C-17 as evidence that he allowed a non manifested person to travel illegally on his aircraft....very smart move (and you pilots are supposed to be so much more elite than everyone else no?) And just because this idiot is at his end of tour, has a pregnant wife at home...this makes him even more so deserving of a quicker flight home than the respect of a body killed in action. I'm sure the family of the deceased will see the priority of getting old "frenchie home" on time. A hero? why? because he is doing his job? don't be such a self praising low life. The trouble with people who go outside of the wire in theatre is that they fully believe that everyone inside of the wire is lower than them and that the world owes them something by being in the green zone. I do believe you chose your career and are paid quite nicely for it. So please don't big yourself up into something you are not.At the end of the day you are no more than a chopper.......pilot. Please just remind yourself how your shiny little chinook got out into theatre in the first place, I don't think it moved itself there now did it?
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Demons
Have to agree with you.
I'm ex-rotary and did NI in the early nineties. There were a lot of very immature first tour pilots who thought they were God 'because they went outside the wire'. They didn't consider the squaddies in the bases in Belfast leaving their forts through protected sniper lanes at the sprint having just had a stress vomit inside.
The most inspirational individual I met there was a man called Flt Sgt Paul Green who is sadly no longer with us. He was Line Chief on shift and took it as a personal insult if a cab went u/s. He would come out with the J/T in the cold pissing rain to sort it or curry up a spare quickly. An inspiration.
You get good and bad in all walks of life. And I can comfortably include pilots in that. Slagging off ALL Movers is like slagging off a Ryanair hostie because she's not as attractive as you like and the sandwiches are ****e.
Like VC10s, with which Movers are forced to work, you cannot polish a turd.
Have to agree with you.
I'm ex-rotary and did NI in the early nineties. There were a lot of very immature first tour pilots who thought they were God 'because they went outside the wire'. They didn't consider the squaddies in the bases in Belfast leaving their forts through protected sniper lanes at the sprint having just had a stress vomit inside.
The most inspirational individual I met there was a man called Flt Sgt Paul Green who is sadly no longer with us. He was Line Chief on shift and took it as a personal insult if a cab went u/s. He would come out with the J/T in the cold pissing rain to sort it or curry up a spare quickly. An inspiration.
You get good and bad in all walks of life. And I can comfortably include pilots in that. Slagging off ALL Movers is like slagging off a Ryanair hostie because she's not as attractive as you like and the sandwiches are ****e.
Like VC10s, with which Movers are forced to work, you cannot polish a turd.
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Monty
You calling Movers turds? Not very nice is it...
Demons
That's a hell of a bite for your first post, should be interesting! Pulls up arm chair, cracks a beer and watches to see how this one unfolds...
Like VC10s, with which Movers are forced to work, you cannot polish a turd.
Demons
That's a hell of a bite for your first post, should be interesting! Pulls up arm chair, cracks a beer and watches to see how this one unfolds...
Last edited by CrabInCab; 14th May 2012 at 17:50.
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Whats to say the C-17 didnt have a space empty and the crew decided to include them as the movers couldnt be arsed to draw up a new manifest?
Course, all changed now with decomp. Absolutely not mover bashing, we all have a job to do and we all do the damned best we can with what we have. Unfortunately, it takes 1 C*nt and your whole trade/branch gets covered in mud.
Course, all changed now with decomp. Absolutely not mover bashing, we all have a job to do and we all do the damned best we can with what we have. Unfortunately, it takes 1 C*nt and your whole trade/branch gets covered in mud.
Last edited by VinRouge; 14th May 2012 at 18:07.
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ooh, a (presumably) mover who knows the in and outs of a rule book. Fancy That.
If, and it's a big if, the good movers sorted out the dross and the idle ****es with bags of McCain on both their shoulders so that they all did the same good level of basic service and not let their weak assed chimps make a bad trip worse by being so obtuse then the hatred of movers as a tribe might start to thaw.
it's not rocket science - getting trained, disciplined and usually experienced troops on and off an aeroplane.
Now, I am sure there will be some good, quality movers out there who are smarting from this - rather than bitch back - go and deal with your own turds, learn to accept banter, be a bit flexible and stop whinging if we try to circumvent your precious rule book.....
There does not need to be a pissing contest about in the wire, out the wire.
You are all in Turdistan, end of.
If, and it's a big if, the good movers sorted out the dross and the idle ****es with bags of McCain on both their shoulders so that they all did the same good level of basic service and not let their weak assed chimps make a bad trip worse by being so obtuse then the hatred of movers as a tribe might start to thaw.
it's not rocket science - getting trained, disciplined and usually experienced troops on and off an aeroplane.
Now, I am sure there will be some good, quality movers out there who are smarting from this - rather than bitch back - go and deal with your own turds, learn to accept banter, be a bit flexible and stop whinging if we try to circumvent your precious rule book.....
There does not need to be a pissing contest about in the wire, out the wire.
You are all in Turdistan, end of.
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Interesting..........., purely on the basis that I experienced this first hand albeit not with the author.
At a certain sand infested place in Qatar it was a well known fact that the movers (both branches) "retained" seats on the C17's coming home in order to look after their own so they would not have the nause of waiting for the trooper and lengthy stops elsewhere in the med and europe on the way home.
When this was discovered the unofficial official solution was to talk to the crew of the mil jet to see if there was bang on board and whether we could go home supernumary (IAW all mil regs and aviation law I'm afraid demonsmaystray). We were operating dets 4 weeks on 3 weeks off for over 18 months so transit to and from the pit was a factor - especially when it was taking 46-58 hours to get home, and especially when the movers were holding seats for movers at the end of their 1 OOA that year.
It was due to the frequency of the dets that detachment aircrew were given priority status, and when that priority status was denied due to the movers looking after their mates rather than focussing on a factual and necessary operational requirement, it raised more than a few hackles.
I believe a very concise letter to the head shed mover via the AOC and subsequently the ACC led to this practice of "denial" of priority seats being ended rather sharpish.
As a further aside, I was left absolutely incredulous as an aircraft Captain when I, by absolute chance, overheard a pax brief from the movers team that had incorrectly loaded my jet which led to a 4 hr delay. The Sgt mover stated that the delay was due to the crew not crewing in on time. A quick chat with the DAMO and then my Sqn Boss saw a very sharpish one way chat to the SAMO from the Staish, quickly followed by another pax brief from the SAMO.
You really don't help yourselves.
At a certain sand infested place in Qatar it was a well known fact that the movers (both branches) "retained" seats on the C17's coming home in order to look after their own so they would not have the nause of waiting for the trooper and lengthy stops elsewhere in the med and europe on the way home.
When this was discovered the unofficial official solution was to talk to the crew of the mil jet to see if there was bang on board and whether we could go home supernumary (IAW all mil regs and aviation law I'm afraid demonsmaystray). We were operating dets 4 weeks on 3 weeks off for over 18 months so transit to and from the pit was a factor - especially when it was taking 46-58 hours to get home, and especially when the movers were holding seats for movers at the end of their 1 OOA that year.
It was due to the frequency of the dets that detachment aircrew were given priority status, and when that priority status was denied due to the movers looking after their mates rather than focussing on a factual and necessary operational requirement, it raised more than a few hackles.
I believe a very concise letter to the head shed mover via the AOC and subsequently the ACC led to this practice of "denial" of priority seats being ended rather sharpish.
As a further aside, I was left absolutely incredulous as an aircraft Captain when I, by absolute chance, overheard a pax brief from the movers team that had incorrectly loaded my jet which led to a 4 hr delay. The Sgt mover stated that the delay was due to the crew not crewing in on time. A quick chat with the DAMO and then my Sqn Boss saw a very sharpish one way chat to the SAMO from the Staish, quickly followed by another pax brief from the SAMO.
You really don't help yourselves.
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Chris Griffin, I think that can be said to all Braches and Trades. Monty and a few others seem to have grasped that a few bad eggs spoil the omelette for all...and exist in all walks of life. Did you read my post about the tipsy C130 co complaining about being disturbed in his rest period, 5 hrs before his flight, whilst still swigging Keo in the AKT Mess?
Did you ever hear about the Civvy who hopped on board a C130 at Colt back in the late 90's? After being invited on board by his mate in the driver's seat? Ended up in Bardufoss...and OC Movs ended up on the Stn Cdrs carpet because someone thought he could by-pass the system
Professionalism is required at all times. Just because you wear a growbag, it does not preclude you from screwing up. So if this thread is to be prevented from turning into a tit for tat exposé of warts why don't we all just try to get along...
Did you ever hear about the Civvy who hopped on board a C130 at Colt back in the late 90's? After being invited on board by his mate in the driver's seat? Ended up in Bardufoss...and OC Movs ended up on the Stn Cdrs carpet because someone thought he could by-pass the system
Professionalism is required at all times. Just because you wear a growbag, it does not preclude you from screwing up. So if this thread is to be prevented from turning into a tit for tat exposé of warts why don't we all just try to get along...
Last edited by El_Presidente; 14th May 2012 at 18:51.
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OK a lot of you seem to hate Movers, lets have some constructed thoughts on why?
The usual ones are getting boring:
Lost My Bags - BA never do that do they
Sleep down the back and drink all night
Sha**ed my misses in the Bop while I was away
Please give genuine gripes so, maybe the Movers who tread these boards can take it away and possibly learn from it.
Also if you have a gripe, tell the guys and don't hold it back for years to come. In the end we all fight for the same team, I am so dreading coming back to the real Air Force World later in the year.
The usual ones are getting boring:
Lost My Bags - BA never do that do they
Sleep down the back and drink all night
Sha**ed my misses in the Bop while I was away
Please give genuine gripes so, maybe the Movers who tread these boards can take it away and possibly learn from it.
Also if you have a gripe, tell the guys and don't hold it back for years to come. In the end we all fight for the same team, I am so dreading coming back to the real Air Force World later in the year.
Last edited by Nomorefreetime; 14th May 2012 at 19:47.
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Glasshouses and all that
Demons......,
If you d bothered getting the facts right you may have realised that Frenchie was actually on the manifest (as sad as it is I ve read the book). May have gone by a different route than the normal, but these were different days before decomp and were approved anyways. So nothing illegal here.....
However this is awkward:
Three RAF servicemen jailed over cigarette smuggling at Lyneham (From This Is Wiltshire)
This REALLY is a great read........
If you d bothered getting the facts right you may have realised that Frenchie was actually on the manifest (as sad as it is I ve read the book). May have gone by a different route than the normal, but these were different days before decomp and were approved anyways. So nothing illegal here.....
However this is awkward:
Three RAF servicemen jailed over cigarette smuggling at Lyneham (From This Is Wiltshire)
This REALLY is a great read........
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Some of you lot must have been off sick when your instructor mentioned never f
g with the Cooks or the Movers.
A little illustartion for the arrogant silly arses
Goose Bay. WO 'Black Bart' Graham (RIP) barges into the shared Mover/VASF crewroom - 'Oi Beastal, (for it was he) where's my Personal Effect Boxes'. Ray Beastal - 'I'll check up on them, Sir'. Black Bart leaves the crewroom, The Beast gets on the phone 'Morning Gary, have you still got WO Graham's PE boxes? Yes? Well keep them for another month.
Akrotiri, APC. Steely Eyed killer arrives for 5 week target towing (having recently written to the RAF News slagging off the movers) Flying kit goes to Hong Kong. Does admin job for 5 weeks.
I say again. Under no circumstances should you annoy these people.
In my opinion, they are salt of the earth, with the usual few bad apples.
SPHLC (Honourary Mover)
Always polite, always got home.
g with the Cooks or the Movers.A little illustartion for the arrogant silly arses
Goose Bay. WO 'Black Bart' Graham (RIP) barges into the shared Mover/VASF crewroom - 'Oi Beastal, (for it was he) where's my Personal Effect Boxes'. Ray Beastal - 'I'll check up on them, Sir'. Black Bart leaves the crewroom, The Beast gets on the phone 'Morning Gary, have you still got WO Graham's PE boxes? Yes? Well keep them for another month.
Akrotiri, APC. Steely Eyed killer arrives for 5 week target towing (having recently written to the RAF News slagging off the movers) Flying kit goes to Hong Kong. Does admin job for 5 weeks.
I say again. Under no circumstances should you annoy these people.
In my opinion, they are salt of the earth, with the usual few bad apples.
SPHLC (Honourary Mover)
Always polite, always got home.
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SPHLC - hilarious dits from a golden era where such actions were of little consequence. Unfortunately, in my experience, preventable situations such as not doing your job right have had quite a severe operational impact in the last few years. A 24 hour rolex caused by a mismanaged load or NDT required due to vehicles being driven into the frame has a consequential knock on effect to an already tight AT plot. The general net result was that the guys that mattered didn't get home on time, if at all.
I concede movers were not always to blame, but having had the pleasure of working very closely with them for the last 10 years, the percentage is very high indeed; hence the responses.
I concede movers were not always to blame, but having had the pleasure of working very closely with them for the last 10 years, the percentage is very high indeed; hence the responses.
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All I am saying is that the Cooks will piss in your porridge, and the Movers will lose your bags. If you are nasty to them, do you expect them to do it less?
My # 1 drinking buddy is an ex-mover, and he genuinely can't remember where he buried some aircrew bags with a JCB in Thumrait. I have forgotten how many times I have rimmed the Nav's tea, and then smiled while he drank it.
Simple - don't get excitable with the little people, it is more than likely one of your hofficer brethren giving the directions.
My # 1 drinking buddy is an ex-mover, and he genuinely can't remember where he buried some aircrew bags with a JCB in Thumrait. I have forgotten how many times I have rimmed the Nav's tea, and then smiled while he drank it.
Simple - don't get excitable with the little people, it is more than likely one of your hofficer brethren giving the directions.
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My # 1 drinking buddy is an ex-mover, and he genuinely can't remember where he buried some aircrew bags with a JCB in Thumrait.
It might also explain many thousands of faux pas by the mover trade.
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Didn't they miss the JCB'S he buried ?