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Old 1st Feb 2012, 22:09   #81 (permalink)
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Sigh. Rewrote that bit of the post so that it read a little better, but made it factually incorrect (well, I think I did, but that's the bit I want to check).
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 22:18   #82 (permalink)
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Wikipedia says min 200 feet, but we all know how accurate that is..
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 23:55   #83 (permalink)
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Didnt realist that JP233 became available early enough
I must admit I am stretching my memory here. I can't remember whether it had started to come into service, TBH.
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 07:01   #84 (permalink)
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KB, into service or not, we are into speculation here. Remember Vulcans hadn't flight refuelled for 18 years, they didn't have ARMs. The Nimrod was not AAR capable and I don't think our C130 was either.

We talked of Vulcans self-designating with LGB. 11 years later the Tornado still needed 3rd party designation with only the Bucc self-designating.

So some suggestions are realistic alternatives, others pure speculation on what we might have been able to do given 6 months more time. JP233 is possibly in that area as indeed would a Tornado deployment to ASI.

The deterrent value of an unknown aircraft like Tornado however was wholly different to the assumed capability of 4 Vulcan during Confrontation as we supposedly had a nuclear capabilty for 7 years.
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 15:14   #85 (permalink)
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There is a reason, Pontius, why it took so long to get a designator on Tornado - I know because of my involvement in the process. The problem was ignorance at the top - their headships were looking at Tornado weapon scores on controlled ranges and comparing them with the 50% CEP of Paveway 2. Typical range scores counted most bombs inside 30 feet as a DH whereas LGB scores were from a calibrated target and extremely accurate. If you compare apples and oranges you get a lemon and that was what Tornado was with dumb bombs.
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 15:38   #86 (permalink)
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Soddim, can't disagree there. I know the Tornado was spectacularly accurate compared with the F111 with high level scores on the RBS ranges, so good that they were only invited once to the Giant Voice competition IIRC.

Now we know how good an RBS score was.

As you say the practice bombs scores were also a bit iffy. I have a picture in my log book of a direct hit on the raft at Epi. The bomb burst and splash were quite spectacular but had it been a 1000lb bomb and a tank the tankers would have had nothing to worry about.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 11:21   #87 (permalink)
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The trawlers, Cordella, Farnella, Northella, Junella, Pict were manned by Royal Navy personnel and were in Mine sweeper/Mine countermeasures role and carried the bomb disposal teams of FCDT 1 / FCDT 3, who cleared unexploded ordnance from several ships of the taskforce. Also they cross-decked ammunition from supply ships in South Georgia; as well as sweeping the channels into Stanley/Port William post conflict.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 19:41   #88 (permalink)
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Any ship can be a minesweeper...

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Old 16th Apr 2012, 19:52   #89 (permalink)
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just has to be noisy enough
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 23:57   #90 (permalink)
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Ref "Mil's" "second fleet"

As a non-mil type with a passing interest in Military history and logistics, the comment about a "second fleet" is very interesting - I've not heard anything of this before; but from an escalation point of view, the concept makes sense.

Would this have been a hotchpotch of recently decomissioned assets, rush-jobs on ships in-build/re-work and a retrenchment of extant vessels from around the world? Could we really have seen half-finished T42's with Tribals and additional Leanders etc making up a true second fleet supporting Bulwark and Illustrious?

On that note, were all RN naval assets worldwide immediately re-deployed homewards at the first sign of the troubles?

For those interested in reading about the Falklands, I recommend "Canberra, The Great White Whale Goes to War"....one of the first and still one of the best accounts of the conflict.
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