PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28th Jul 2011, 10:28   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 26000 to 28,000 lightyears from the galatic centre
Age: 68
Posts: 161
Service Pension Reduction

I reached the magic age of 65 a couple of weeks ago and today was the first payment of my state pension.
However I have also received a letter from the Xafinity Paymaster telling me my service pension is being reduced under national insurance modification rules. In my case a reduction of about 5.5%.

Xafinity Paymaster state that the reason is because between 1948 and 1980 Service personnel did not pay the correct NI Contributions.

Any body know anything about this?
orionsbelt is offline   Reply
Old 28th Jul 2011, 10:52   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 377
WOW. This seems incredible that retrospective action on your pension can occur. Very meanminded by UK HMG. I am a realist, but didn't think this could happen.
BBadanov is offline   Reply
Old 28th Jul 2011, 12:52   #3 (permalink)
HTB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Over the hill (and far away)
Posts: 362
Extract from the 2011 AFPS Newsletter below.

The last 2 paragraphs might be relevant; could be you have not been informed of any dual payment or recovery of same. If this is not the case, there is something a bit more disturbing going on for those of advanced years (I'm only 4 behind you, so will stay alert on this topic).

The Social Security Pensions Act 1975 introduced the State Earnings Related Pensions Scheme(SERPS). The AFPS contracted out from this scheme but, by law, had to pay a pension benefit atleast as good as that paid out by SERPS. This amount is known as your GMP.

Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs (HMRC) National Insurance Contributions Office (NICO) advise XP how much of your pension the GMP amount forms at State Pension Age (SPA). Please note that this is not an additional amount to be paid, as it forms part of your existing pension.

Men can currently claim their State benefits at age 65. From April 2010 SPA for women began to increase from 60 and from April 2016 the pace of SPA equalisation increases. Women’s SPA will therefore reach 65 in November 2018, and from December 2018 SPA for both men and women will start to increase to reach 66 by April 2020.

When you claim your State retirement benefits the Pensions Service, which is part of the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), is responsible for paying part of any annual pension increase on your GMP with your State benefits. This addition will be shown on your annual pension statement received from The Pensions Service, who may refer to GMP as Contracted Out
Deductions (COD). XP must allow for this when calculating any increase on your pension to avoid you receiving an increase on the same amount of GMP twice.

Therefore although women’s GMP payment age will remain at 60 the AFPS must fully inflation proof their GMP to SPA, and adjust their annual rate of AFPS pension to exclude the GMP increases paid by the state from SPA.
GMP may be in two parts, for the period 5 April 1978 to the date you left the Armed Forces (or 5 April 1988 whichever is the earlier) and for the period 6 April 1988 until you left the service (or 5 April 1997 whichever is the earlier). XP will apply any increase to the part of your GMP that was earned after 5 April 1988 and pay this with your Armed Forces Pension, but only up to a maximum of 3%. Any increase above 3% and all of any increase on the GMP amount earned before 6 April 1988 is paid by DWP with your state benefits. However, a further change in the law (Pensions Act 1995) means that XP will pay any increase in full on all the benefits earned after 5 April 1997.

Unfortunately, on occasions HMRC NICO does not advise XP of the value of your GMP in time. If this happens it may mean that you receive an increase on your GMP with your Armed Forces Pension and your State Pension, which in turn will result in you being slightly overpaid. XP will have to adjust your pension payments later to take this into account. You will, of course, be notified in advance of this happening.

Mr B
HTB is offline   Reply
Old 28th Jul 2011, 15:08   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Africa
Age: 77
Posts: 580
Quote:
I have also received a letter from the Xafinity Paymaster telling me my service pension is being reduced under national insurance modification rules.
Surely National Insurance only effects State Pension?
ian16th is offline   Reply
Old 29th Jul 2011, 14:45   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France 46
Age: 68
Posts: 1,752
As someone who reaches State Retirement Age in approximately 32 hours one has to query why it has taken some 32 Years for this problem to come to light.

Moreover, "National Insurance" is a deduction from income decided by HMG over which the Payee has no control. This money was not withheld by the Payee, it was failure to collect the money by the Government Agency whose duty it was to do so.

This does not surprise me as I recently received a letter from the Pensions Agency in respect of my State Pension which detailed 5 different Schemes that I had been in (and which I knew nothing about) - one of these Schemes will provide me with an extra 1 Penny a week (before Tax).
cazatou is offline   Reply
Old 29th Jul 2011, 15:18   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Quote:
one of these Schemes will provide me with an extra 1 Penny a week (before Tax).
My begging letter is in the post
The Old Fat One is offline   Reply
Old 29th Jul 2011, 15:59   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished to the pointless forest
Posts: 996
Caz,


Every week?
airpolice is offline   Reply
Old 29th Jul 2011, 16:53   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Erehwon
Posts: 1,149
Quote:
Therefore although women’s GMP payment age will remain at 60 the AFPS must fully inflation proof their GMP to SPA, and adjust their annual rate of AFPS pension to exclude the GMP increases paid by the state from SPA.
GMP may be in two parts, for the period 5 April 1978 to the date you left the Armed Forces (or 5 April 1988 whichever is the earlier) and for the period 6 April 1988 until you left the service (or 5 April 1997 whichever is the earlier). XP will apply any increase to the part of your GMP that was earned after 5 April 1988 and pay this with your Armed Forces Pension, but only up to a maximum of 3%. Any increase above 3% and all of any increase on the GMP amount earned before 6 April 1988 is paid by DWP with your state benefits. However, a further change in the law (Pensions Act 1995) means that XP will pay any increase in full on all the benefits earned after 5 April 1997.
Aah, now I understand . . . I'm really glad someone sorted it out and gave us the simple version. Makes perfect sense now . . . (in a pig's ear).

No wonder there are so many people that don't receive all their benefits (even the one's they've earned).
Dengue_Dude is offline   Reply
Old 29th Jul 2011, 17:39   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lechlade, Glos.UK
Posts: 286
When I reached 65 last year and my state pension started, my service pension was reduced. This was because the state pension is not taxed and the tax is taken from my service pension.
sharpend is online now   Reply
Old 29th Jul 2011, 18:53   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 26000 to 28,000 lightyears from the galatic centre
Age: 68
Posts: 161
http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...pdf/129119.pdf

Please take a look at the above link, , I think the same will apply to ALL of us.

There has been some discussion On the Navy forum re this same issue.

There is more Google data to search through.

This is nothing to do with income tax that is already take off my personel pension. and amount to an extra tax bill of £88 pm for the OAP.

This modification amount to around £15 per month, which over 25 years is £4500+ increase ellements

***

Last edited by orionsbelt; 29th Jul 2011 at 19:59.
orionsbelt is offline   Reply
Old 30th Jul 2011, 09:02   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France 46
Age: 68
Posts: 1,752
TOFO

As you are OLD I will send you an OLD Penny- when I have saved that amount. Of course I will have to send you a bill to cover International Postage/ Envelope and Insurance.
cazatou is offline   Reply
Old 16th Sep 2011, 15:13   #12 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tewkesbury
Age: 68
Posts: 1
pension reduction

I also just received my letter from xafinity. My reduction amounts to £244.29p an 8.15% reduction.
It appears that all Public sector pensions are subject to this rule; however most are restricted to a much lower reduction, a teachers pension, for instance, is restricted to £1.70 per annum for each year of service, to a maximum of £54 per annum, other public service pensions are to a maximum of £67.75 (pension manual).
I shall certainly be speaking to my MP about this.
embo is offline   Reply
Old 16th Sep 2011, 15:28   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Pole
Posts: 715
Suely this is something for Veterans -UK to be looking at? There is no mention on their website but they do have a helpline which might be worth a buz!!
newt is offline   Reply
Old 16th Sep 2011, 16:30   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bomber County
Age: 64
Posts: 61
The GMP rules have been around for a long time. The Paymaster newsletter has talked about it for at least the last 10 years so it should come as no surprise.

The Forces Pension Society try to explain it as well:

Quote:
What is a GMP?
A GMP is the minimum pension which an occupational scheme such as the Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) must provide as one of the conditions of contracting out. The AFPS is contracted out of the Second State pension, previously known as State Earnings Related Pension Scheme (SERPS). If you or your deceased spouse were employed in the Services and a member of AFPS 75 between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997 you will have earned a GMP. GMP is not a separate benefit paid in addition to your AFPS pension but the pension we pay you must equal or exceed the GMP.
HM Revenue and Customs work out the level of your GMP. Your GMP comes into force normally when you ask for your State pension to be paid to you. (There are circumstances when the GMP comes into force at a later date but the effect on your AFPS pension is the same).
What is pensions increase?
The Pensions (Increase) Act 1971 governs the cost of living increases that apply to public service pensions. Xafinity Paymaster is the organisation that pays your pension under contract to the SPVA, who are the AFPS Administrators. Xafinity Paymaster increases your pension each year to reflect rises in the cost of living as centrally directed. The annual increase in public service pension is the same percentage as that applied to additional State retirement pensions and other Social Security benefits.
How is the pensions increase applied to my GMP?


Xafinity Paymaster applies the pension increase to the whole of your AFPS pension, including the GMP element, until your GMP comes into force. At this point your AFPS pension is paid as follows:
  • For service up to 5 April 1988 - The Government will pay the pensions increase relating to the GMP you earned up to this date with your State pension.
  • for service between 6 April 1988 and 5 April 1997 - Xafinity Paymaster will pay increases on the GMP you earned in this period up to 3%. In years when the increase is more than 3% the Government will pay the balance with your State pension.
What effect does this have on the pension you pay me?

When your GMP comes into force the National Insurance Contribution Office (NICO) tell Xafinity Paymaster the amount of your GMP. Paymaster then adjust their records to reflect the fact that the Government now pays some of the annual pensions increase on the GMP element of your Armed Forces pension with your State pension. The overall increase in your pension will however be the same.
I haven't reached 65 yet but my teacher wife has a COD/GMP of £38.65 per week on her State Pension.

From reading the various documents I think the shock comes when, having been paid your RAF pension for some years, the State Pension kicks in and the increase in the GMP bit of all those years of RAF Pension payments gets revalued because it will be paid as part of your State Pension.

Not exactly straighforward!
radar101 is offline   Reply
Old 16th Sep 2011, 19:40   #15 (permalink)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 71
Posts: 10,573
Worry not, there will be worse to come I am sure.

At the age of 65 you get an increased personal allowance of £9940 against £7475. However if you earn over £24k you lose one pound of allowance for every £2 above £24k. This gives you a marginal tax rate of 30%.
Pontius Navigator is online now   Reply
Old 16th Sep 2011, 20:11   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 26000 to 28,000 lightyears from the galatic centre
Age: 68
Posts: 161
Full response from MP and MOD

Chaps I attach a scan of the reply from my MP and the MOD.

Following on from that I show how they have calculated my reduction.

This will effect all of you who served during the stated period.
Additionally please note my calculations as this is a living reduction and is recalculated each year, so if you have a pay increase this reduction is also increased!!!!!!!!

*********************

MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
FLOOR 5 ZONE B MAIN BUILDING
WHITEHALL LONDON SW1A 2HB
Telephone: 020 7218 9000 (Switchboard)

THE RT HON ANDREW ROBATHAN MP
MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL WELFARE AND VETERANS
Our ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 11 August 2011

Thank you for your recent letter, signed by a member of your staff, enclosing correspondence from your constituent, Mr xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx, about the reduction in his Armed Forces Pension under the National Insurance Modification rules.


The reason for the abatement to Mr xxxxxxxx pension goes back to 1948 when the National Insurance (NI) Scheme was made compulsory for all employed personnel.

When flat rate benefits were introduced, the Government took the view that, to avoid over-provision of pension benefits, account should be taken of other benefits payable at the State Retirement Age (SRA).

All employers with occupational pension schemes were required to modify their schemes to take account of the contributions and benefits payable under the NI Scheme.

As a result, on reaching SRA, the Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) pension of Service personnel who enlisted on or after 1 July 1949 is reduced by £0.8708 per annum for each complete year of reckonable Service between 30 June 1949 and 1 April 1980. This reduction is referred to as the NI Modification rules.

In addition pensioners, like. Mr xxxxxxx, who also contributed to the Graduated Pension Scheme (GPS) whilst in the Service during the period 3 April 1961 to 5 April 1975, have their Armed. Forces pension reduced by the amount of the basic graduated pension (also payable at SRA as State benefits) earned by their graduated contributions. This reduction is known as a GPS abatement.

Officials have confirmed that Mr xxxxxx AFPS pension has been correctly reduced in line with the rules governing both the NI and GPS Schemes at the time of his Service. I can assure both you and Mr xxxxxxx that the reductions applied are not as consequence of him having paid insufficient NI contributions during his Armed Forces Service. However, it is also the case that the State pension Mr xxxxxx has been receiving since attaining SRA on 10 July 2011 will have been enhanced by the contributions he made to the NI and GP Schemes.

************

I hope this reply is helpful and explains the position

Now for calcs on My reduction.

I have 12years service that counts so 12 * 0.8708 = £10.44
Also I have a figure of £24.70 for GPS so combined that is £35.44

However now comes the big RUB that £35.44 is indexed at a set rate of 5.2582% for every year since I left in 1976,. So in my case that is 35 years compound and comes to around £214 pa for Tax year 2011/12.
Additionally that will be further indexed for each future year I.e. the figure is revised annually.

This is nothing to do with Tax code changes or anything else

So there you go, as a matter if Interest I have 45+years NI contributions
with most of them at the highest rates. And years as a higher rate income Tax payer. No words can explain My thoughts on this, It just stinks!!!!!
I will not talk about the other tax chages as I get stung by them as well. I saved up for my old age!!!!!!
It really sums up the attitude of the Gov (any of then ) wrt service personel. I think we should listen to the TUC ????????

Have fun
***

Last edited by orionsbelt; 17th Sep 2011 at 08:55.
orionsbelt is offline   Reply
Old 16th Sep 2011, 21:29   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Pole
Posts: 715
STUFFED again Boys!! And there we were, thinking we were doing a good job defending the Nation and all the while the beanstealers were having their wicked way!

Well stuff them all!! Sell the house and downsize to something less than 300k and spend the rest on wine women and song!! Otherwise they will have the lot!!

See you all down the pub!!
newt is offline   Reply
Old 17th Sep 2011, 07:18   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Erehwon
Posts: 1,149
As ever, those who are responsible citizens and made provision for their retirement are shafted.

Irresponsible gobshites and oxygen thieves blissfully go through their lives taking everything, the billions paid out in a myriad of incoherent allowances.

So glad we live in parliamentary 'democracy' where true endeavour is rewarded.

Rant over, have fun
Dengue_Dude is offline   Reply
Old 17th Sep 2011, 07:55   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lincs
Posts: 13
"All employers with occupational pension schemes were required to modify their schemes to take account of the contributions and benefits payable under the NI Scheme."

These regulations apply to all pensions. I took early retirement at age 60 from my civvy job. At age 65, when I received my state pension, my occupational pension went down by the amount stipulated by the regulations. C'est las vie.
Benzimra is offline   Reply
Old 17th Sep 2011, 08:53   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 26000 to 28,000 lightyears from the galatic centre
Age: 68
Posts: 161
So it applies it to all pensions?? how come this is the first time I and many other have learnt about his. Its not stated in any Pension Planning Documents or NI.gov webpages. Its not stated on my AFPS75 Doc (what little I have). Age UK know nothing about it, so why is it kept so hush hush?????

The first I hear about it is when XP cut the cash.

***

Edited to remove the Rant!

Last edited by orionsbelt; 17th Sep 2011 at 17:57.
orionsbelt is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:33.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network