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Old 17th Jun 2011, 23:29   #101 (permalink)
 
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A few Tomahawk's lobbed from a sub into a few into a few Military installations
might make the Argies sit up and take notice with the promise of a few more to follow if certain actions are not carried out.

.
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Old 17th Jun 2011, 23:41   #102 (permalink)
 
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crude colonial power in decline
Bit rich coming from a country founded by Spanish colonials and later supplemented by fugitives from Nazi Germany's demise.

Even with the UK SDSR in place the Argentines would have no chance in a conflict. They're only after a UN resolution over the matter.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 06:27   #103 (permalink)
 
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Likelihood of UNSCR on the Falklands? Absolutely no chance - UK has the veto. As for the Argentine President harping on about the UK ignoring General Assembly resolutions, she might wish to consider her own country,s behaviour in this respect!
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 11:22   #104 (permalink)
 
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And do you think they give a flying F?

Once the South American coalition gets up and running the Argentines will take the rather large ticket of OIL to the bargaining table, then watch out.

South America backs Falklands claim - Defence Management

BBC News - Argentina rallies regional support over Falklands

and most importantly

Argentina's president stokes up claim to the Falklands - Telegraph

stoking the fires.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 11:54   #105 (permalink)
 
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Fascinating thread. I am neither an Argentine nor UK citizen but have visited both countries, so it is interesting to see the arguements. It was interesting to read how many times the Falklands/Islas Malvinas have changed hands.

It seems that Kirschner is using nationalist sentiments to draw attention away from (red herring) her own domestic problems in Argentina. This was a tactic of the military dictatorship during the early 1980's. What they didn't recon with was the resolve of Thatcher who, herself, was having her own set of problems at home. Argentina's military defeat caused great humiliation to the dictatorship in Argentina, probably helped lead to its demise, and helped raise approvals of the "Iron Lady" at home.

I see political stir-ups being used as effective tools to divert attention away from "real" difficult domestic problems by countries as diverse as the United States, China, Nicaragua, Bahrain, Pakistan, Cuba, North Korea . . . really an endless list probably encompassing most of the World's countries.

What is interesting is that numerous Latin Americans, during the 1980's, believed (perhaps naively) that a supposedly idealistic and law-abiding United States would actually back Argentina, rather than the United Kingdom, on the Falkland Crisis, based on the Monroe Doctrine, which was used as justification by the United States to fend off Soviet and Eastern Block involvment in Latin America.

It is also to see that a sometimes irrational fancy for "the confetti of empire" still exists in many parts of the World.

Last edited by Panama Jack; 18th Jun 2011 at 12:07.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 12:56   #106 (permalink)
 
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PJ...like most of what you say....objective viewpoints always help. Not sure about the imperial confetti comment though? BTW...I feel sure the Monroe Doctrine was put together to prevent further imperial adventures into South America, minimise the extant colonial powers influence in the region, not least by the UK...and ensure the southern security of US birders.....it predated Cold War politics by some way!
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 16:10   #107 (permalink)


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What capability do the Argies have to accomplish their goal this time?

Are they better off or not?

What lessons did they learn from the last go at taking the Falklands?

I am sure the British have some idea of what did not work and what might be a much better way to deal with the situation.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 16:45   #108 (permalink)
 
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Surely the "what didn't work last time" was the defence of the Falklands in the first place.

The Royal Marines of NP8901, for all their efforts, were not up to the task of defending the FIs against such odds.

Things are a little different down there now days and whilst some may pour scorn on there being 'only' four Typhoons they are a hell of a lot more suitable to the task in hand than the assortment of elderly, short-legged and poorly supported a/c the Argentinians can through at the islands. Of course their is also the advanced warning that forces based on the islands would have of an approaching Argentine force, something not available back in 1982.

The Argentine military is in a far worse position than the British. Whilst the British military has been cutback in numbers the technology of those forces that are available far outweighs that available to the Argentines, much of their forces still being equipped with that which wasn't sent across the sea to later be destoryed or captured by the British.

I don't believe any changing of 'ownership' of the Falklands will happen as a result of military action, rather more likely it will take a political form. But of course the UN would never force the population of lands to accept governing by another nation against their right to self-determination would they?
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 17:49   #109 (permalink)
 
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Give me a sub for a day and only 3 missiles (the non nuclear variety) and I reckon I could have the Argentinians screaming for an end to any war. The smoke that the 15 million odd citizens of Buenos Aires would see billowing from the military sector at Aeroparque Jorge Newberry (Cristina could see that one from her balcony in the Casa Rosada), El Palomar Air Base and Mariano Moreno Air Base would see a retreat quicker than you could say 'General Belgrano'!

Seriously though, if you talk to any educated Argentinian you will realise that they don't give a rats about the Falklands much less entertain any thoughts about retaking them. Their armed force have had the second lowest defence expenditure in South America for the past 20+ years and have no new kit - certainly no match for a Typhoon with ASRAAM and AMRAAM!
Presidents (particularly the Peronists) will however continue to appeal to the uneducated by merely mentioning Las Malvinas, we just need to ignore it as such.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 19:06   #110 (permalink)
 
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having been to the Falklands a few times I think it is safe to say that you could offer the Islanders a million each to change nationality and would politely get told to FO by the very vast majority and rightly so. Old plastic face is acting, like most argie politicians do, like a spoilt child saying I want all the time expecting to get. Any argie government will be very wary of putting too much money into their armed forces because of their habit of turning around and overthrowing those in charge. It is purely an election year in argentina and it is always a vote winning topic.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 19:21   #111 (permalink)
 
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The Argentine military is in a far worse position than the British. Whilst the British military has been cutback in numbers the technology of those forces that are available far outweighs that available to the Argentines, much of their forces still being equipped with that which wasn't sent across the sea to later be destoryed or captured by the British.
Everybody always assumes next war fought will be the same as the last.

A deal done with another neighbouring country or a faraway one (famous for its food after the pub) to supply some of the muscle to aid Argentina and get oil leases as a repayment is another way of looking at what could happen.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 20:00   #112 (permalink)
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I enjoyed it 29 years ago. Bring em on.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 20:08   #113 (permalink)
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I enjoyed it 29 years ago. Bring em on.
Do you think those left behind in Falklands graves, or buried at sea, enjoyed it as much as you did ?
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 23:14   #114 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10W
Do you think those left behind in Falklands graves, or buried at sea, enjoyed it as much as you did ?
What's wrong with enjoying your job? Last year there were over 1,000 fatalities in aircraft accidents worldwide and over 200,000 deaths and injuries on British roads. Does that mean no one should be allowed to enjoy flying or driving?
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 23:28   #115 (permalink)
 
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First falklander gets argie nationality

BBC News - Falkland man chooses Argentine citizenship

This guy is a traitor as far as I'm concerned. I would revoke his british citizenship never to return it to him.

Does he not realise he has been used as a pawn in very carefully staged politcal propaganda.

I for one am proud to be British.
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Old 18th Jun 2011, 23:31   #116 (permalink)
 
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10W are you really a "Moderator". Better get some real time in if you are.
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Give me a sub for a day and only 3 missiles (the non nuclear variety) and I reckon I could have the Argentinians screaming for an end to any war.
A bit like we're doing in Libya against another third world dictator?
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Old 19th Jun 2011, 00:03   #117 (permalink)
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A deal done with another neighbouring country or a faraway one (famous for its food after the pub) to supply some of the muscle to aid Argentina and get oil leases as a repayment is another way of looking at what could happen.
The neighbours probably couldn't muster much better equipment than Argentina at the moment, then there is the little problem of motivating other South Americans to go and give their lives for the Falklands. Personally I can't see China openly supporting a South American offensive and effectively taking on the rest of the civilised world.

An airborne assault? Four Typhoons and ground based anti-aircraft missile batteries could make an awful mess of transport aircraft positioning for a mass drop. A sea borne assault? - submarines.

How would Argentina neutralise these defences?
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Old 19th Jun 2011, 02:21   #118 (permalink)


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Bit snotty to ask such a question of those who have seen the Dragon don't you think 10W?

When folks go to War....some folks die in the process. Those that stay at home safe should take their hat off to those that went and those who were lost protecting other folk's freedom.

I assume you will be offering an apology for the tone of your post seeing as how you are a Moderator and all. Mod's are supposed to stay out of the fuss so I have heard.....not provoke one.
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Old 19th Jun 2011, 09:13   #119 (permalink)
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We all took the Queen's shilling and we knew the risks. I lost mates, but we would do it again if we had to.
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Old 19th Jun 2011, 09:31   #120 (permalink)
 
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I can't see China openly supporting a South American offensive and effectively taking on the rest of the civilised world
I cannot see them jeopardising their export trade either; not for the sake of a supply originating halfway around the world.
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