Icao Level 6 English
Thread Starter
Icao Level 6 English
As some of you will know, it will soon be a mandatory €uropean requirement for ATPL and CPL holders to have an 'ICAO Level 6' English Language proficiency statement included in their licences.
Whilst those flying with any CAA-appointed examiner will be able to obtain this during their tests, there may be some (e.g. flying civilian airliners on a non JAR-FCL licence) who may need to obtain this endorsement if applying retrospectively for a JAR-FCL ATPL.
After discussions with the CAA today, anyone who is in such a position and who can obtain a suitable statement from a serving or former RAF CRMI/QFI which meets the 'Other acceptable means' as described in LASORS A.20 should be able to obtain the endorsement without further formality.
Anyone with whom I have ever flown during my time as a VC10 QFI/IRE/CRMI who finds that they need an ICAO Level 6 English Proficiency assessment statement may contact me via PM.
Whilst those flying with any CAA-appointed examiner will be able to obtain this during their tests, there may be some (e.g. flying civilian airliners on a non JAR-FCL licence) who may need to obtain this endorsement if applying retrospectively for a JAR-FCL ATPL.
After discussions with the CAA today, anyone who is in such a position and who can obtain a suitable statement from a serving or former RAF CRMI/QFI which meets the 'Other acceptable means' as described in LASORS A.20 should be able to obtain the endorsement without further formality.
Anyone with whom I have ever flown during my time as a VC10 QFI/IRE/CRMI who finds that they need an ICAO Level 6 English Proficiency assessment statement may contact me via PM.
Whilst those flying with any CAA-appointed examiner will be able to obtain this during their tests, there may be some (e.g. flying civilian airliners on a non JAR-FCL licence) who may need to obtain this endorsement if applying retrospectively for a JAR-FCL ATPL.
I now take great pride in the fact that my licence is stamped "ICAO Level 6" in the language of my licensing authority (awarded by default, with no exam), but only "Level 5" in my own native tongue.
Trim Stab
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority...in English I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
Joking aside, though, it would be interesting to 'name and shame' the authority.
iRaven
my JAR licencing authority
Joking aside, though, it would be interesting to 'name and shame' the authority.
iRaven
Thread Starter
The UK CAA, as issuing authority for JAR-FCL pilot licences in the UK, will include the proficiency statement in the licence. I am not talking about the issue of a standalone Form SRG\1199.
Which maverick so-called JAR licensing authority will not accept another JAR licensing authority's legitimate licence? Presumably your licence was issued by the IAA?
(Incidentally, for those confused by licence and license (apart from lard-ar$ed burger eaters who dress in clothes made from old office carpets, for whom there is no hope
), the easy way to remember is " I stir my coffee" - s for verb and c for noun.)
Which maverick so-called JAR licensing authority will not accept another JAR licensing authority's legitimate licence? Presumably your licence was issued by the IAA?
(Incidentally, for those confused by licence and license (apart from lard-ar$ed burger eaters who dress in clothes made from old office carpets, for whom there is no hope
), the easy way to remember is " I stir my coffee" - s for verb and c for noun.)
Hi Beags, does that include` plugging-in ` behind for a refill ?????
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority...in English I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
Thread Starter
syacamore, unfortunately that'll have to be a 'No'.
Trim Stab, being an ex-pongo perhaps you were educated at somewhere like that awful place on the hill, yah? However, from Mr. Bill Cope's English lessons at my minor prep school in the early 1960s, I learned that the -ing form is the present participle of a verb often used as an adjective. So in this case, licensing would be the correct form, because the verb form is to licence.
Aaargh - I can still smell the chalk, 'Puffing' Billy's pipe smoke and that ink/wooden desk aroma as we little lads grappled with Subject Object Predicate.....
By the way, TrimStab, surely you 'transcribed' those Spam-speak tapes, rather than having 'transcripted' them....?
Requiring any ex-UK military pilot to prove that they have ICAO Level 6 English Language proficiency is a total insult - can you imagine that happening in the US?
Trim Stab, being an ex-pongo perhaps you were educated at somewhere like that awful place on the hill, yah? However, from Mr. Bill Cope's English lessons at my minor prep school in the early 1960s, I learned that the -ing form is the present participle of a verb often used as an adjective. So in this case, licensing would be the correct form, because the verb form is to licence.
Aaargh - I can still smell the chalk, 'Puffing' Billy's pipe smoke and that ink/wooden desk aroma as we little lads grappled with Subject Object Predicate.....
By the way, TrimStab, surely you 'transcribed' those Spam-speak tapes, rather than having 'transcripted' them....?
Requiring any ex-UK military pilot to prove that they have ICAO Level 6 English Language proficiency is a total insult - can you imagine that happening in the US?
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"Requiring any ex-UK military pilot to prove that they have ICAO Level 6 English Language proficiency is a total insult - can you imagine that happening in the US? "
I have yet to meet a yank that would pass the test in English!
Incidentally, I recently added the Level 6 bollocks to mine by emailing an address the CAA gave me. They posed me a letter stating "to whom it may concern etc etc that I qualified"
I have yet to meet a yank that would pass the test in English!
Incidentally, I recently added the Level 6 bollocks to mine by emailing an address the CAA gave me. They posed me a letter stating "to whom it may concern etc etc that I qualified"
What is ICAO Level 6 English Beagle? Surely anybody English born should never have to take such a test? Or is this the CAA, JAR rules gone mad yet again?
Thank God I gave up my license when I retired from flying!!!!
Thank God I gave up my license when I retired from flying!!!!
Quote: Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority...in English I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority...in English I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
LOL! Perhaps you should have paid more attention to grammar at your school.
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority...in English I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
LOL! Perhaps you should have paid more attention to grammar at your school.
I think you'll find it grammatically correct - but my punctuation always 'sucked the dog of death'!
I'll rephrase:
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority? In English, I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
Before you say it is "was a noun", I believe it is "is a noun" as it is present tense (ie. it still is a noun).
Finally, BEagle is completely correct - in this case, licensing would be the correct form, because the verb form is to licence.
I guess your score of "5" was pretty well justified then!
iRaven
Thread Starter
newt, mate, my suspicion is that the CAA was scared of giving all UK-born pilots carte blanche ICAO Level 6 English proficiency, because not all UK-born pilots are...errm...errm...'native English speakers'.
Neither could they say "OK, we know you qualify" to some WASP, because Jamrag Ramjet Singh or whoever might cry "Discrimination!" if he didn't get the same deal.... Innit, bruv.
Getting the qualification is reasonably simple if there's someone to vouch for you - the whole idea being to improve safety on International RT by insisting on reasonable standards of English. It's just that the CAA have been rather more ponderous about the whole thing than other NAOs - such as the FAA. Who, I gather, said "The exams are set in English - if you can pass them then your English must be good enough!".
I'm afraid it's yet more €urocrap....
And it's to license, iRaven - plus newt gave up his licence!
Hey, newt, have you been watching Come Fly with Me on BBC TV? The scene in which Penny, Great British Air's snobbiest employee, evicts passengers from the lower social classes who have deigned to buy tickets to fly in her exclusive first-class cabin was such a brilliant p*ss-take on ba!
Neither could they say "OK, we know you qualify" to some WASP, because Jamrag Ramjet Singh or whoever might cry "Discrimination!" if he didn't get the same deal.... Innit, bruv.
Getting the qualification is reasonably simple if there's someone to vouch for you - the whole idea being to improve safety on International RT by insisting on reasonable standards of English. It's just that the CAA have been rather more ponderous about the whole thing than other NAOs - such as the FAA. Who, I gather, said "The exams are set in English - if you can pass them then your English must be good enough!".
I'm afraid it's yet more €urocrap....
And it's to license, iRaven - plus newt gave up his licence!
Hey, newt, have you been watching Come Fly with Me on BBC TV? The scene in which Penny, Great British Air's snobbiest employee, evicts passengers from the lower social classes who have deigned to buy tickets to fly in her exclusive first-class cabin was such a brilliant p*ss-take on ba!
Last edited by BEagle; 8th Jan 2011 at 14:27.
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority? In English, I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
However, from Mr. Bill Cope's English lessons at my minor prep school in the early 1960s, I learned that the "-ing" form is the present participle of a verb and is often used as an adjective.
BEagle, I award you a lower level 5.
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I would imagine any British citizen would get a ICAO level 6 by default? The way I understand it level 6 equals "native speaker".
Not in the military myself. But one my second to last LPC the TRE was so kind to award me level 6 anyway even though I'm not a native speaker.
Not in the military myself. But one my second to last LPC the TRE was so kind to award me level 6 anyway even though I'm not a native speaker.
TS
Luckily for me with a Postgraduate Master's Degree in Science (MSc) your award of "middling 4" matters not. I always knew I was a duffer at the Arts (especially languages) so I went down the science route. I guess that's why I got an "Aircrew 'A' " in ISS - the RAF's Service Writing correspondence course. By the way an "Aircrew 'A' " is a Grade 'C'.
So anyway, who is the issuing nation for your JAR ATPL or CPL?
iRaven
Luckily for me with a Postgraduate Master's Degree in Science (MSc) your award of "middling 4" matters not. I always knew I was a duffer at the Arts (especially languages) so I went down the science route. I guess that's why I got an "Aircrew 'A' " in ISS - the RAF's Service Writing correspondence course. By the way an "Aircrew 'A' " is a Grade 'C'.
So anyway, who is the issuing nation for your JAR ATPL or CPL?
iRaven
I occasionally fly with a native of Belgium, and English is his second or third language. Nevertheless, his grammar and use of words not now considered 'everyday English', is very impressive. In fact, he speaks far better English than most of the 'yoof' in the UK, innit. Massive!
It would be an utter travesty if he was not awarded an ICAO Level 6 certificate.
It would be an utter travesty if he was not awarded an ICAO Level 6 certificate.