Icao Level 6 English
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A bit of thread drift....
Back in the 1980s, all aircrew undergoing training at the NATO E-3A Component at Geilenkirchen had to undergo an English course and test prior to commencing their formal training. Only Americans and Canadians were exempt, and so in 1987, when the first Brits arrived at GK to learn the E-3A prior to E-3D (which would arrive in a couple of years time) they were expected to take the English language course (NATO not having the flexibility to "change the rules"). One of the first Brits to arrive found this quite absurd - especially when one of his course compatriots, a red haired Italian Lt Col, thought that the Brit looked more Italian than he did. The upshot was that the two swapped identities, and the Brit (who was actually white Kenyan) turned up for the first lesson as the Italian Lt Col and vice-versa. The two let it run for a while until the Brit's poor Italian accent gave him away.
The result was that the instructor also saw the pointless side of the training for the Brits and they were given an "honourary pass" without having to attend or to violate the rules. I think that the instructors were quite worried, because they taught "American English" and did not like us correcting their spelling and "slang" (we had the Europeans calling an "eraser" a rubber in very short order because the official language was stated as English and not American). Generally the English used by the 14 Nations within the multinational crews at GK was passable (helped by insisting upon rigid procedure within the crews) , but we still had a few amusing incidents caused by misunderstandings during times of stress. Not for this thread though!
Back in the 1980s, all aircrew undergoing training at the NATO E-3A Component at Geilenkirchen had to undergo an English course and test prior to commencing their formal training. Only Americans and Canadians were exempt, and so in 1987, when the first Brits arrived at GK to learn the E-3A prior to E-3D (which would arrive in a couple of years time) they were expected to take the English language course (NATO not having the flexibility to "change the rules"). One of the first Brits to arrive found this quite absurd - especially when one of his course compatriots, a red haired Italian Lt Col, thought that the Brit looked more Italian than he did. The upshot was that the two swapped identities, and the Brit (who was actually white Kenyan) turned up for the first lesson as the Italian Lt Col and vice-versa. The two let it run for a while until the Brit's poor Italian accent gave him away.
The result was that the instructor also saw the pointless side of the training for the Brits and they were given an "honourary pass" without having to attend or to violate the rules. I think that the instructors were quite worried, because they taught "American English" and did not like us correcting their spelling and "slang" (we had the Europeans calling an "eraser" a rubber in very short order because the official language was stated as English and not American). Generally the English used by the 14 Nations within the multinational crews at GK was passable (helped by insisting upon rigid procedure within the crews) , but we still had a few amusing incidents caused by misunderstandings during times of stress. Not for this thread though!
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ICAO level 6 not recognised by an ICAO signatory state
I am puzzled :why having ICAO ATPL attained level 6 LPR first time in an English speaking nation was forced to do an additional ICAO ATPL license in another ICAO state who also granted me level 6 to now have to do an English tests in a third ICAO state because this state, namely Sultanate of Oman (a non-native English speaking state) does not recognise any other I.C.A.O. E.L.P. except locally tested..and invigilated by natives who neither read, speak, nor write English as native speakers with all associated deficiencies!
This begs the question:
What is the purpose of I.C.A.O. and its conventions if we have to re-do medicals, and flying tests as well as English tests even if the highest standard is attained?
I.C.A.O. then might become as lame as the U.N. police force?
This begs the question:
What is the purpose of I.C.A.O. and its conventions if we have to re-do medicals, and flying tests as well as English tests even if the highest standard is attained?
I.C.A.O. then might become as lame as the U.N. police force?
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MrBernouillie,
The Belgian CAA will not award more than level 4 even if mr Shakespeare himself took the test, they also will not accept any tests of Belgian nationals done for example by a professor of English literature at a major UK university. By definition nobody here can have more than level 4, meaning a retest every x years.
Complete nonsense if you ask me.
The Belgian CAA will not award more than level 4 even if mr Shakespeare himself took the test, they also will not accept any tests of Belgian nationals done for example by a professor of English literature at a major UK university. By definition nobody here can have more than level 4, meaning a retest every x years.
Complete nonsense if you ask me.
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dirkdj
presumably that is because the testers realise their own limitations and cannot grade anyone to a higher degree of profiency than they themselves hold, or can reliably test?
presumably that is because the testers realise their own limitations and cannot grade anyone to a higher degree of profiency than they themselves hold, or can reliably test?
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I think you'll find it grammatically correct - but my punctuation always 'sucked the dog of death'!
I'll rephrase:
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority? In English, I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
Before you say it is "was a noun", I believe it is "is a noun" as it is present tense (ie. it still is a noun).
Finally, BEagle is completely correct - in this case, licensing would be the correct form, because the verb form is to licence.
I'll rephrase:
Pray tell, which country is your JAR licensing authority? In English, I was taught in Prep School that 'licence' is a noun.
Before you say it is "was a noun", I believe it is "is a noun" as it is present tense (ie. it still is a noun).
Finally, BEagle is completely correct - in this case, licensing would be the correct form, because the verb form is to licence.
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Cathay Pacific requirements.
Well for all joiners of CX, EVERYONE has to take the ICAO test. Level 4 is operational but requires retesting in 3 years. This is the minimum, however, CX doesn't hire at that minimum and even native english speakers had problems with the recordings with accents from all over Asia as well as the paraphrasing and description of pictures, airline scenarios and documentaries.
Academic and educational backgrounds didn't help much for some as it came down to sentence structuring, inference, annunciations and pronunciations. Pretty interesting once you are in the hot seat.
Academic and educational backgrounds didn't help much for some as it came down to sentence structuring, inference, annunciations and pronunciations. Pretty interesting once you are in the hot seat.
Thread Starter
Academic and educational backgrounds didn't help much for some as it came down to sentence structuring, inference, annunciations and pronunciations. Pretty interesting once you are in the hot seat.
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No Exemptions in NZ.
Here in NZ I recently had to undergo the ignominy of an ELT (born and bred in the UK!!!, 19 yrs UK military flying), only to find that that the person I had to understand had a very broad scottish accent !! I feel for all the Indian imports doing their flying training over here.
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As a graduate of the English course for NATO student pilots arriving for training in Canada in 1957 we had to allow a full day to pass before gaining our certificate. Perhaps we should have taken longer to cope with such as the order from the Grouop Captain halfway through the formal graduation parade who invited all present with " OK yous guys, fall-out for a smoke"
Last edited by Art Field; 26th May 2012 at 20:43.
