Gordon Brown fails to offer clear guidance on RAF bases (in Scotland)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gordon Brown fails to offer clear guidance on RAF bases (in Scotland)
From today's Scotsman
Forget that the question was raised by the SNP and ignore all the blah about MoD jobs in Scotland!
It would surely not make sense to close the 2 RAF airfields in the UK that have the best weather factor and are closest to some of the best low flying training areas in the land!
Foldie
Published Date: 15 December 2009
GORDON Brown has refused to give reassurances about the fate of two RAF bases in Scotland as speculation mounted that they might be scrapped.
The Prime Minister yesterday side-stepped questions from Angus Robertson, the SNP's Westminster leader, about rumours that the Kinloss and Lossiemouth bases in Moray might be closed.
Mr Brown said that scrapping Trident would cost jobs in Scotland, but he refused to mention the RAF bases. Instead, he said: "When he looks at the record of enhanced expenditure and investment in the armed forces, both in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, he would know the government is doing its job."
Mr Robertson said the Prime Minister had added to the "intolerable" uncertainty to service personnel in his constituency. "At a time when our forces are already overstretched and under-resourced, it would be a betrayal by this Labour government to threaten vital bases and defence programmes while squandering billions on Trident nuclear weapons renewal. Gordon Brown's government is already responsible for a £4.3 billion defence underspend in Scotland, and 9,500 defence jobs have been lost in Scotland since Labour came to power – that is an appalling record. For Gordon Brown to talk of enhanced spending in Scotland is patently nonsense."
Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth is due to make a statement in the House of Commons tomorrow about the Nimrod fleet of aircraft. There has been speculation that the defence budget over-stretch might force the fleet to be withdrawn early.
This would have an impact on Kinloss, which is home to the Nimrods.
The closure of this and the Lossiemouth base threatens 4,500 jobs.
A recent study showed that the bases contributed £70 million to the local economy and £156m to the overall economy.
GORDON Brown has refused to give reassurances about the fate of two RAF bases in Scotland as speculation mounted that they might be scrapped.
The Prime Minister yesterday side-stepped questions from Angus Robertson, the SNP's Westminster leader, about rumours that the Kinloss and Lossiemouth bases in Moray might be closed.
Mr Brown said that scrapping Trident would cost jobs in Scotland, but he refused to mention the RAF bases. Instead, he said: "When he looks at the record of enhanced expenditure and investment in the armed forces, both in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, he would know the government is doing its job."
Mr Robertson said the Prime Minister had added to the "intolerable" uncertainty to service personnel in his constituency. "At a time when our forces are already overstretched and under-resourced, it would be a betrayal by this Labour government to threaten vital bases and defence programmes while squandering billions on Trident nuclear weapons renewal. Gordon Brown's government is already responsible for a £4.3 billion defence underspend in Scotland, and 9,500 defence jobs have been lost in Scotland since Labour came to power – that is an appalling record. For Gordon Brown to talk of enhanced spending in Scotland is patently nonsense."
Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth is due to make a statement in the House of Commons tomorrow about the Nimrod fleet of aircraft. There has been speculation that the defence budget over-stretch might force the fleet to be withdrawn early.
This would have an impact on Kinloss, which is home to the Nimrods.
The closure of this and the Lossiemouth base threatens 4,500 jobs.
A recent study showed that the bases contributed £70 million to the local economy and £156m to the overall economy.
It would surely not make sense to close the 2 RAF airfields in the UK that have the best weather factor and are closest to some of the best low flying training areas in the land!
Foldie
"Surely" is never a word that should be used with this lot, but yes it would be somewhat barking.
However, whose constituency is the "other" RAF base in Scotland close to????
However, whose constituency is the "other" RAF base in Scotland close to????
Foldie,
Don't be so stupid...what a silly argument, if you followed that to it's natural conclusion, bases like Brawdy, Chivenor, Manston and Machrahanish would still be open. No we need to shove everything up the A1 next to all the congested airspace used mainly by the civilians and close to major conurbations where we can maximise noise complaints!
Don't be so stupid...what a silly argument, if you followed that to it's natural conclusion, bases like Brawdy, Chivenor, Manston and Machrahanish would still be open. No we need to shove everything up the A1 next to all the congested airspace used mainly by the civilians and close to major conurbations where we can maximise noise complaints!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Possible Closure of Lossie and Kinloss
"The closure of this and the Lossiemouth base threatens 4,500 jobs."
While (as a Jock) I'm sympathetic to Forres and Elgin, concern for the local economies around military bases has never been a high priority. Remember the effects on Donnie when Finningley shut and the likely effect of Lyneham's closure on Swindon when loyalties (and bus routes) are easier into Oxford. These economic "blips" sort themselves out over time.
It's a sad fact of life that we're looking forward to a drastically smaller Air Force and a consequent reduction in real estate.
While (as a Jock) I'm sympathetic to Forres and Elgin, concern for the local economies around military bases has never been a high priority. Remember the effects on Donnie when Finningley shut and the likely effect of Lyneham's closure on Swindon when loyalties (and bus routes) are easier into Oxford. These economic "blips" sort themselves out over time.
It's a sad fact of life that we're looking forward to a drastically smaller Air Force and a consequent reduction in real estate.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
If Lossie goes where will JSF fly from or is the plan to scrap that and therefore no need for CVF
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hope the folks round wittering don't mind the noise
Believe me, it's true. I was in MOD Adastral in '91 when we (not me, I was in Fg Trg at the time) had a thought to move the Jag/Har force from Colt/Witt into Woodbridge/Bentwaters. There were more arguments against than for, not least was the fact that the ex-USAF bases were on 110 volts but the cost of returning Wittering to arable land was number 1 on the reasons of why not!
Foldie
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bury St. Edmunds
Age: 64
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foldie
Gordon Brown's credability is totally f***ed both by the number of ill-thought through policies, lack of funds to deliver any of the real changes you might expect from a Government that was in control of its administration.
His government is the one responsible for the foreign policy decisions which have got us into Afg for the long term bu he simply refuses to resource the MOD sufficiently to get the job done. Crisis decisions to "solve" a short-term cash problem are likely to have a permanent effect on this country's long-term military capability......and bases which are shut won't magically re-open when the banking crisis and its economic fall-out is over.
If he had any honour he would do the decent thing and call the election sooner rather than later.....he never was elected PM in any event. As a Scot I would have thought he would have at least spoken up for keeping Lossie, Kinloss, Leuchars, Rosyth and Faslane.....what a pre-election gift to the SNP by keeping quiet.....
IMHO , no decisions of this magnitude should be taken until after the general election when hopefully the decision will no longer be his to make!
MB
Gordon Brown's credability is totally f***ed both by the number of ill-thought through policies, lack of funds to deliver any of the real changes you might expect from a Government that was in control of its administration.
His government is the one responsible for the foreign policy decisions which have got us into Afg for the long term bu he simply refuses to resource the MOD sufficiently to get the job done. Crisis decisions to "solve" a short-term cash problem are likely to have a permanent effect on this country's long-term military capability......and bases which are shut won't magically re-open when the banking crisis and its economic fall-out is over.
If he had any honour he would do the decent thing and call the election sooner rather than later.....he never was elected PM in any event. As a Scot I would have thought he would have at least spoken up for keeping Lossie, Kinloss, Leuchars, Rosyth and Faslane.....what a pre-election gift to the SNP by keeping quiet.....
IMHO , no decisions of this magnitude should be taken until after the general election when hopefully the decision will no longer be his to make!
MB
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely right, decisions like these need full parliamentary discussion and debate not just a quick announcement before christmas recess. Yet again our fatter lords and masters scurry away after making painful anouncements hoping that the news will fade away before they are back in to face the people. Unfortunately they may have just taken this too far.
All of this is not about putting the proper recources into Afghanistan, they should be funded centrally from the Govt contingency funds. Oh no Sorry Gordon Brown got rid of that when he was chancellor at the same time as selling off over half of our Gold reserve when prices for gold were at an all time low. That money may have come in useful this year for the banks. Now he expects the MOD to keep doing their dirty business for them without the proper support. Malcolm Rifkind spoke some wise words this morning on Radio 4 when he stated that we need a full Defence and Foreign Policy review to see just where the British People want our Govt to go with regards protecting ourselves.
Same programme atated that the NHS has employed another 60,000 this year. Maybe we will all get jobs there...
All of this is not about putting the proper recources into Afghanistan, they should be funded centrally from the Govt contingency funds. Oh no Sorry Gordon Brown got rid of that when he was chancellor at the same time as selling off over half of our Gold reserve when prices for gold were at an all time low. That money may have come in useful this year for the banks. Now he expects the MOD to keep doing their dirty business for them without the proper support. Malcolm Rifkind spoke some wise words this morning on Radio 4 when he stated that we need a full Defence and Foreign Policy review to see just where the British People want our Govt to go with regards protecting ourselves.
Same programme atated that the NHS has employed another 60,000 this year. Maybe we will all get jobs there...
where will JSF fly from or is the plan to scrap that and therefore no need for CVF
Unfortunately they may have just taken this too far.
Last edited by TorqueOfTheDevil; 15th Dec 2009 at 21:08. Reason: I put Happy Christmas - how non-inclusive and discriminatory of me!
Nice to see the anti-CVF brigade getting their knives out already. Jacko will be along soon. Once again and I will say it slowly...Queen Elizabeth and Prince Of Wales are not dependent on JCA, they have been designed from the outset to be converted, if necessary, to conventional ops. After conversion, there are many other Strike capable aircraft out there, which whilst not 5th generation, fit ably the requirement for CAS, especially when approx 25% (sometimes more) of the current CAS effort in the Stan, operates off USN carriers. QE and POW will be versatile, it can also operate those same Chinooks and Merlins all over the world in the LPH role. Most of the money for QE and POW has already been spent and parts of it are already built and sitting in Rosyth. CVF will happen, JCA however???? That is another debate
