Military AviationA forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.
The thing about only being able to do a base visit after you have a date, is crap. Ring ANY flying base in the ADF and ask them for a visit. You will get one no doubt. And by the way, you should be proud of which service you are going to join. ADF pilot my butt, we're all in it together, but be proud of the 'blue' 'white' or 'green'. Good luck
My loyalty is to whoever gives me the opportunity. I'd be happy flying for any of the services. They all offer their own exciting style of flying. I'm sick of GA's shonky operators, dodgey maintenance, and lack of employment stability with operators shutting down all around. I gave up the dream of flying the big commercial jets long ago, and now that I have the opportunity to join the ADF, I can spend the next 20yrs enjoying my flying.
Yes, BDB, I've been out jogging this week. Good fun with all those flies.
Re: base visits. Does anyone know who I should contact at RAAF 37SQN for a base visit?
About two weeks ago I went through the Australian Defence Force Testing for pilot entry into the RAAF and passed all the aptitude tests and was about to be sent to Flight Screening but in the medical I was boarder line between Colour Perception 2 (CP2) and CP3 (you have to be CP2 for DEO Pilot). The doc said that it would be ok for me to be sent to Flt Screening but some more testing would follow, but after about an hours wait he said that at this stage its no go and you will have to appeal this matter with the guys in Canberra, my application still under consideration.
I have a CASA class one medical which allows me two fly any aircraft daytime or nightime and as a commercial pilot for the last 3 years have never had a problem with anything outside or inside the aircraft day or night, no problem with the colours on the EFIS screens.
I am asking if any Military pilots have had any sort of problem similar to this, or know of anyone who has?. If the appeal gets the thumbs up then its all ok but I am wondering what my chances are?
Whilst I didn't have an eye sight issue at the time I was canned on a hearing issue. It was only through a very lucky meeting with a senior RAAF Officer whilst serving Chicko Rolls and Hot Pies at the local cafe in the sunny fly ridden out back of Northern Australia...ie Katherine! that I was given very useful information on the appeal process. I appealed "Howzat!!!"and subsequently did a far more thorough and accurate set of testing at the National Acoustics Lab and I was accepted. The recruiting staff ( probably through no fault of their own) were not helpful and certainly did not offer me the appeal option, they did however offer me jobs in the NCO ranks (probably because they were short on that particular quota!!!!) and would not assist me any more. I might add from my first application to arriving at Officer training school was almost 3 years!!!! The recruiters were only game to go to the Northern Territory twice in a year at that stage so the long and the short of it is hang in there!
I might add I subsequently went blind and deaf whilst in the Air Force but that was probably from the stale beer and 19,000 decibal stereo in the Pearce O's mess bar!!!
Obviously you are heading down the right track with an appeal - good advice from Fox3snapshot. My tip is that you don't stop if the appeal fails first time. Experience says the Doctors are in the business of tin plating their arse rather than making efforts to clarify results of tests...it is going to be your job to give them the confidence to accept you with your slight problems (and we all have them). Second opinions / specialist reports will all help them. Have you sat the board yet? If you haven't a tenacious approach to this hicup with the doctors will go down well with the pilots on the board...just what we want to see.
Good luck and post more if you need more info.
Fox3snapshot: Which cafe in Katherine? Not the BP...and do you mean YKYMF?
Thanks F75, I have made plans about appealing against appeal! Have not sat the Board yet, its after Flt screening now, but the doc said to me on the day of testing "we may give you specialist testing after the Board" but then walked out of the room for 2 mins and came back and gave me news to appeal. He was a civilian doc.
Do you think I have sent enough information to back the appeal? ( the letter from CASA/Victorian College of Optometry, one from a Parent/Guardian who has knowledge of this, and a letter on my behalf)
Enjoyed many a Chiko Roll and Pauls Iced Coffee at the lovely little BP at the end of Katherine Terrace....in fact I logged about 400 hours there having spent 20 years of my life in Katherine and my parents running that particular BP at one stage. What I didn't mention is that my hearing problem was induced by DJAY-ing at what was then "Mopokes", then becoming Wings nightclub (CROSSWAYS HOTEL) and god knows what now....."I don't care what music just play it loud!!!!!"
Good call on the try and try again advice F75....I did and it worked. And as for the butt covering, well after all the palava of getting in I had a nice green slip I had to carry around in my medical docs that reflected the Air Forces generosity in allowing me in and a clause to ensure that I would not claim in later life that I was deafened by an FA18 fighter doing engine runs in the Willytown Back bar!!!! Truth is the cleaners vacuum cleaner was just as noisy but that's another story.
Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest, Till the good is better, And the better best!
Unfortunately the appeal didn't go ahead, I got a phone call from a man who told me something strait out of a book telling me why I couldn't join, it defeats the purpose of appealing because what he told me is what I was appealing against, I don't think they took it very seriously.
The dots kind of test always drives me nuts....seems I have a Red-Green deficency....nothing said until I did my UK Medical exam....had the special light test they use...passed no problem....then 29 years after my first US Army Class One medical exam.....my friendly FAA quack decided I was "colour blind" and was going to ground me medically. Despite my protests....he remained adamant that I "did not see the same colours as "normal" sighted people" and thus was unfit. Notwithstanding my 9,000 hours of flying at that time....accident and incident free mind you.....it took my employer suggesting they would remove all of their business to some other clinic before our Quack decided maybe he was being out of order. Not really, an appeal....but had the same effect. The FAA and CAA have special tests to assess the degree of colour blindness.....hang in there and keep looking for a friendly quack that will try to help you.
I too am apealing the nurses decision to scrap me because of an accident i had 9 years ago. I have 2 metal pins in my femur. These pins do not affect and never have affected me at all! Some bureaucrat decided "...let there be no pins in the air force", and thats final.
A letter from my surgeon states that the ADF view is completely illogical and that ADF are rarely willing to consider applicants on a case by case basis which is what some people deserve. He goes on to suggest to threaten them will legal action, i.e. equal opportunity, unfair discrimination etc
Perhaps this applies to you, and maybe its something you can consider.
It is has been well known in the ADF community for number of years that a senior ADF commander is green/red colour blind. The word is that he passed the eye test by memorising the numbers/lines/shapes.
From all accounts and from my flying with him, he has never had any problems, including being a highly regarded QFI.
WOF, send a letter to the defence force ombudsman(address in white pages government section) and one to the minister for Defence (I'm sure you know who he is after stuyding for the board). These two areas won't have the answer for you but should be able to get you a official WRITTEN response. Make sure you write a letter (a nice one), don't settle for phone calls. Let us know what happens.
O.k i realise that a subject of this nature should belong in a wannabe forum BUT after e-mailing the ex RAAF pilots whom fly the strikemasters at pt cook (YMPC) and not getting a reply, and reading all the "glossy" info form the air force i would like a realistic view of what to expect, i assumed this forum is the place to get these answers!
i want to know what is the selection process for the RAAF and what is to be expected in trying to achieve a fast jet position?
i understand only 2-3 pilots out of 1500 get to th f/j's....
i would be very appreciative of any replys and info!
First up, it's not two to three pilots out of 1,500 who get to fly FJ's, but two to three applicants out of 1,500 who get to fly FJ's. Out of a typical pilots course, 40-50% of graduates will be posted to FJ's with probably a third of those passing F/A-18 or F-111 conversion, so it is more like two to three pilots out of 15 who get to fly FJ's. My information on the selection process is now six or seven years old, dating back to when I applied. Your best bet to get the current info is contact Recruiting and they will outline the process. Another good thing to do is arrange a visit to a flying SQN (Recruiting can arrange this for you) and talk to the junior pilots there as they can give you first hand information about their selection. First, you have to ask yourself a whole bunch of questions. In no particular order, some of them are: 1. Why do I want to join? 2. Am I comfortable with signing on for the required 12 years? 3. How would I feel if the RAAF sent me off to a real shooting war? 4. What does my family think about my joining? 5. What do I know about the RAAF? 6. What do I know about the job of being a military pilot? 7. If I didn't get FJ's, would I be happy at, say, P-3's or at Hercs? 8. If I failed pilots course, would I stay in the RAAF and try for Nav or another category? Next, at Recruiting, you will be barrier tested which involves: 1. Comprehension testing 2. Mathematical testing (you don't need to be a mathematical genius, but mental arithmatic is something you should be familiar with) 3. Psych testing 4. Physical co-ordination testing 5. Medical testing. After that, expect a chat with the psych and then the recruiting officer. If you pass the initial stage, you will head off to Tamworth for Flight Screening where they put you in a plane to see if you can take instruction and not throw up (too much) during aeros. If successful at Flight Screening you will be put in front of a Selection Board and asked many of the questions that I mentioned above. If successfull at the Board then it is off to Officer training for you which will either be three years at ADFA or three months at OTS. Following Officer training you will enjoy three weeks of Combat Survival Training School and then a week of Aviation Medicine training before you end up back at Tamworth to begin flight training. Expect a month or two of ground school (aerodynamics, air law, meteorology, systems etc etc) before you get airborne in the CT4. At Tamworth you will cover basic flying, instrument flying, formation and nav. After Tamworth it is over to Pearce for PC9 conversion and the applied or military part of the course where you take the basics and turn it into, say, split RV formation, ToT, HiLo and all of that good gear. If successful, a senior officer will appear one day and pin Wings on your chest and then you retire to the Mess for Grad Ball and alcohol, pilots, for the consumption of. If posted to transport or maritime you'll be off to another base for conversion. If Posted to FJ's you will do a Hawk conversion with 79 SQN in Pearce, then head to 76 SQN in Willy to learn how to be a junior knuck on the Hawk and then to 2 OCU or 6 SQN for F/A-18 or F-111 conversion respectively. Pass that and then you start working your way up the category chain.
In terms of what you can do to become a FJ pilot, well, I fly Hercs, so I cannot tell you for sure, but: 1. Work hard on pilots course. You may be a natural, but if you are lazy they will hesitate before sending you there. 2. Be born with the right skills to be a FJ pilot.