Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Green granite. In the forties . we did not become adults until we reached twenty one , so we were ?.
Back to Ponca. On our weekends off we found out that we could not return to the airfield after 2230 hrs Saturday, but could return between 0800 hrs and 2230 hrs Sunday. The only alternative, if we wished to stay out,was to book a room at the Jens Marie hotel, which was quite cheap, as it was room only. Particularly if we shared it with three or four other cadets. The mattress was placed on the floor, all the blankets place on the springs, this arrangement could cope with six of us comfortably. However we eventually learned it was unwise to tell any one where we were staying as on our first weekend we finished up with twelve cadets , who had missed the bus, in our room , sleeping across the bed, mattress, and on the floor . Sunday Breakfast was at the local drug store, and the staff always shouted as we left "y'all come again boys". We were always made most welcome wherever we went.
One weekend Bill **** and I missed the last bus back to camp, and as we had no money we decided to walk, so set off , but then after walking awhile decided we wouldn't get back in time. We decided to sleep on the grass verge as the night was warm and dry. We had just settled down when a car came along. Three girls got out and said we would be more comfortable in spare camp beds they had in their front garden, so we got in the car and were soon fast asleep in comfort. The following morning their mother woke us up with a full breakfast, coffee etc:. We eventually found out this sort of hospitality was the norm for Ponca people. Any one going to church was always invited to Sunday lunch after the service.
We also had an open invitation to the Continental Oil (Conoco) companies social club, where on a Saturday night a regular barn dance was held. Music being supplied by instruments such as , fiddle, guitar, accordion etc. The Ponca Indians held a powwow every year, to which "the boys from Darr School" were always invited, We were also invited to a rodeo while we were there.
Hitch hiking was also " a piece of cake", the first vehicle passing would stop and offer a lift. Once however I was hitching to Oklahoma city for the weekend, when a cowboy (complete with ten gallon , sorry no liters then, stetson) on a horse stopped and insisted I sit on the back of the horse and thumb a lift. Another time a truck pulled up, after I hopped in the driver, asked if I drove trucks and when I said I had done a bit in civvy street, he asked me if I would take over for a while as he was falling asleep. I was a bit dubious as he was hauling two trailers with an all up weight of thirty tons, and the gear box had thirteen gears. He said he would change gear, and after we got going I wouldn't need to change gear again for fifty miles as the road was dead straight,and flat. I managed O.K but when I was leaving the truck he did his best to persuade me to desert and take up truck driving. He offered me about ten times what I was earning in the R.A.F.
An amusing conversation took place when hitched a lift with some girls in a car. I offered them a cigarette which were Players navy cut. One of said "gee that's a quaint pack", I said they are English, she replied are you from England? and when I said yes, she said to her friend. gee he talks English just like us.
Must tell this one. On my first journey on a bus I noticed half way down the bus was a notice which read -No blacks in front of this sign-. I thought I would sit in the back of the bus as I didn't think it was right, a black lady in the back of the bus politely told me to sit in the front half.
Sorry if some of you think I have gone off thread, but I do think the good people of Ponca deserve thanks, I think it was the most hospitable town I have stayed in.
I Promise to do a bit more "dicing with death " next.
CAVEAT LECOR.
Back to Ponca. On our weekends off we found out that we could not return to the airfield after 2230 hrs Saturday, but could return between 0800 hrs and 2230 hrs Sunday. The only alternative, if we wished to stay out,was to book a room at the Jens Marie hotel, which was quite cheap, as it was room only. Particularly if we shared it with three or four other cadets. The mattress was placed on the floor, all the blankets place on the springs, this arrangement could cope with six of us comfortably. However we eventually learned it was unwise to tell any one where we were staying as on our first weekend we finished up with twelve cadets , who had missed the bus, in our room , sleeping across the bed, mattress, and on the floor . Sunday Breakfast was at the local drug store, and the staff always shouted as we left "y'all come again boys". We were always made most welcome wherever we went.
One weekend Bill **** and I missed the last bus back to camp, and as we had no money we decided to walk, so set off , but then after walking awhile decided we wouldn't get back in time. We decided to sleep on the grass verge as the night was warm and dry. We had just settled down when a car came along. Three girls got out and said we would be more comfortable in spare camp beds they had in their front garden, so we got in the car and were soon fast asleep in comfort. The following morning their mother woke us up with a full breakfast, coffee etc:. We eventually found out this sort of hospitality was the norm for Ponca people. Any one going to church was always invited to Sunday lunch after the service.
We also had an open invitation to the Continental Oil (Conoco) companies social club, where on a Saturday night a regular barn dance was held. Music being supplied by instruments such as , fiddle, guitar, accordion etc. The Ponca Indians held a powwow every year, to which "the boys from Darr School" were always invited, We were also invited to a rodeo while we were there.
Hitch hiking was also " a piece of cake", the first vehicle passing would stop and offer a lift. Once however I was hitching to Oklahoma city for the weekend, when a cowboy (complete with ten gallon , sorry no liters then, stetson) on a horse stopped and insisted I sit on the back of the horse and thumb a lift. Another time a truck pulled up, after I hopped in the driver, asked if I drove trucks and when I said I had done a bit in civvy street, he asked me if I would take over for a while as he was falling asleep. I was a bit dubious as he was hauling two trailers with an all up weight of thirty tons, and the gear box had thirteen gears. He said he would change gear, and after we got going I wouldn't need to change gear again for fifty miles as the road was dead straight,and flat. I managed O.K but when I was leaving the truck he did his best to persuade me to desert and take up truck driving. He offered me about ten times what I was earning in the R.A.F.
An amusing conversation took place when hitched a lift with some girls in a car. I offered them a cigarette which were Players navy cut. One of said "gee that's a quaint pack", I said they are English, she replied are you from England? and when I said yes, she said to her friend. gee he talks English just like us.
Must tell this one. On my first journey on a bus I noticed half way down the bus was a notice which read -No blacks in front of this sign-. I thought I would sit in the back of the bus as I didn't think it was right, a black lady in the back of the bus politely told me to sit in the front half.
Sorry if some of you think I have gone off thread, but I do think the good people of Ponca deserve thanks, I think it was the most hospitable town I have stayed in.
I Promise to do a bit more "dicing with death " next.
CAVEAT LECOR.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LATIN
Hi Exscibbler.
I have just seen this.
Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? (Is that a scroll in your toga, or are you just happy to see me?)
I thought my joke about a first field dressing was an original. Didn't know it was from chestnut corner.
I have just seen this.
Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? (Is that a scroll in your toga, or are you just happy to see me?)
I thought my joke about a first field dressing was an original. Didn't know it was from chestnut corner.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Fairford, Glos
Age: 99
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
harrym
Cliffnemo says of Harrogate "...... It seems that at times they had a surplus of pilots at Harrogate, and tried to reduce the number by forcing them to convert to gliders." Not just gliders either, during my time there (April-June '44) volunteers were also called for to fill vacancies for railway firemen. How many actually went I don't know, but in later life I met someone who did - he spent the best part of a year on shunting engines!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 80
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dinghy practice took place in the harbour, regardless of weather. We dressed in Sidcot flying suits, flying boots, helmet, goggles, gloves and Mae West life jacket.
An inflated nine man survival raft was then thrown in and turned upside down. We were then instructed to jump in (high tide). Any one who hesitated was "assisted by our flight sergeant Then we were told how to turn it the right way up. One cadet was instructed to act as if he was unconscious, not very difficult for any of us. He just floated around in his Mae West. One cadet climbed in to pull and another remained outside to push the unconscious one up into the dinghy. We were then instructed in the use of all the equipment in the dinghy< flares, paddles . drogue, etc.
The R.A.F nine man survival dinghy was a marvelous and efficient piece of equipment. When it was inflated by compressed air bottle, not only were the two big rubber rings inflated but the floor, and top also., leaving only the doors to be inflated by mouth.
An inflated nine man survival raft was then thrown in and turned upside down. We were then instructed to jump in (high tide). Any one who hesitated was "assisted by our flight sergeant Then we were told how to turn it the right way up. One cadet was instructed to act as if he was unconscious, not very difficult for any of us. He just floated around in his Mae West. One cadet climbed in to pull and another remained outside to push the unconscious one up into the dinghy. We were then instructed in the use of all the equipment in the dinghy< flares, paddles . drogue, etc.
The R.A.F nine man survival dinghy was a marvelous and efficient piece of equipment. When it was inflated by compressed air bottle, not only were the two big rubber rings inflated but the floor, and top also., leaving only the doors to be inflated by mouth.
Surprised that it was a double chamber with inflatable floor and top. In the 50s we used a single ring open dinghy, the same type as in the film 'The Sea Shall Not have Them'.
They certainly did warm up when battened down but the rubber flavoured air was certainly honk inducing.
'Lindholme' refered I believe to a rescue system rather than the dinghy. A Lindholme gear comprised two survival containers and a dinghy joined with about 500 yards of buoyant cord. While we were told what was in the survival packs we were never allowed a hands-on in-the-dinghy practise.
Part of 'survival' is occupational therapy; we would have got warm unpacking the kit, trying to put on woolen socks, and keeping the fags and food dry.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lindhome
I googled Lindhome and found they referred to the Lindhome dinghy, and Lindhome gear, but no info on canopies . It did say the dinghy was developed at R.A.F Lindhome.
I do remember our instructor mentioning the insulating properties of the canopy, but it could have been either I suppose.
Cliff.
I do remember our instructor mentioning the insulating properties of the canopy, but it could have been either I suppose.
Cliff.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before I start, I have printed a photo of one of my oppos at the Ponca Indian tribe annual powwow Just in case you thought my memory was playing tricks again. We even had tuition on performing a war dance.
Back to training. We progressed on to forced landings. steep turns , stalling, spinning, side slipping, and some of these solo. Being able to get away from the airfield solo, was exhilarating. Flying over the Arkansas river, the 101 ranch, and local small towns, free as bird. Total hours that week were about eleven. One mistake I made was on my first forced landing. .Mr DUX demonstrated the procedure. At about three thousand feet he told me to shut the throttle without warning, he chose a suitable field and glided down into wind, side slipping to loose height and when at about fifty feet , just over the fence he opened the throttle and climbed to three thousand feet. He then shut the throttle and said now you do it. I selected a field, and followed his instructions to the letter, then full throttle and climbed away.He said perfect, almost. I asked him why almost, he replied, you picked a ploughed field. I never made that mistake again.
At the same time classroom subjects included , action in the event of fire. forced landing procedure, standard beam approach, determining the beam when no Q.D.M cannot be obtained. Then asking for Q.G.Q and QFE. etc.
I now felt more confident, and was quite enjoying flying, particularly when flying solo
Last edited by cliffnemo; 5th Oct 2008 at 15:44.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saving Work
I am having trouble with my post reply. My work occasionally disappears when I am half way through typing. I have tried to save it as i progress but either , I can't find it after saving,or if I try to use copy and then paste in word . it tries to copy the whole page and then says it is too large. Any help would be appreciated
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cor Blymey. Am having trouble posting. Three times I have lost my almost complete contribution . On my fourth effort I completed it and although I was signed in, I was informed I was not signed in and refused . Will try and post this. Just a piccy of the A.T 6 which I will describe later.
I am having trouble with my post reply. My work occasionally disappears when I am half way through typing. I have tried to save it as i progress but either , I can't find it after saving,or if I try to use copy and then paste in word . it tries to copy the whole page and then says it is too large. Any help would be appreciated
Cliffnemo. A quick way not to lose long posts.
Type the whole thing out on Word before you open your pprune.
Shrink it to the toolbar.
Open up pprune and go to the post reply page.
Open up your post in Word.
Left button held down highlight the whole lot, then press Control and C.
Return to your reply and press Control and V.
The whole lot will appear.
Even if pprune collapses on you will still have it in Word. Its a good idea to shrink both pages so that you are back to your desktop and re-engage Internet Explorer. This will give you a second browser for you to work with photobucket.
Type the whole thing out on Word before you open your pprune.
Shrink it to the toolbar.
Open up pprune and go to the post reply page.
Open up your post in Word.
Left button held down highlight the whole lot, then press Control and C.
Return to your reply and press Control and V.
The whole lot will appear.
Even if pprune collapses on you will still have it in Word. Its a good idea to shrink both pages so that you are back to your desktop and re-engage Internet Explorer. This will give you a second browser for you to work with photobucket.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many Thanks To Fareast Driver.
Many thanks for your help Fareastdriver I was getting ready to "bail out" Have printed your instructions and will,comply. I prefer M.S word , as I am more familiar with it.
Wil now attempt to post my aborted effort "End of primary training."
AGAIN, much appreciated.
Cliff.
Wil now attempt to post my aborted effort "End of primary training."
AGAIN, much appreciated.
Cliff.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the end of primary training I had flown thirty one hours dual. Thirty four solo, five hours night dual, two hours night solo, five hours , cloud flying, and eleven hours on the link trainer.
In the classroom we studied, the theory of bombing including angle of trail , gravity drop, wind resistance, and the bombsight. Bombing in wind , systematic bombing errors Armaments. Pyrotechnics. The mark2 gunsight including deflection shots, attack and evasion tactics, enemy aircraft recognition with wing spans and max speeds. We also had to learn the phonetic alphabet, which at that time was , able, baker , Charlie, dog fox, etc. Plus much more, which all had to be written down, and revised each evening ,then memorised, We then tested each other.
At the end of primary training, we had exams and “check rides” any one who failed was returned to Canada. The cadets who passed were then given fourteen days leave, and a free train ticket. Hardy Albrecht who lived in Atkins, Iowa, invited Bill and me to stay at his home, which we readily accepted . Hardy advised us to use the word furlough and not leave, as no one would know what we were talking about. I hope next to tell you about our advanced training on the A.T 6, but not before I tell you about being taken to the police station in Cedar Rapids for parking Hardy’s Pontiac next to a fire hydrant.
In the classroom we studied, the theory of bombing including angle of trail , gravity drop, wind resistance, and the bombsight. Bombing in wind , systematic bombing errors Armaments. Pyrotechnics. The mark2 gunsight including deflection shots, attack and evasion tactics, enemy aircraft recognition with wing spans and max speeds. We also had to learn the phonetic alphabet, which at that time was , able, baker , Charlie, dog fox, etc. Plus much more, which all had to be written down, and revised each evening ,then memorised, We then tested each other.
At the end of primary training, we had exams and “check rides” any one who failed was returned to Canada. The cadets who passed were then given fourteen days leave, and a free train ticket. Hardy Albrecht who lived in Atkins, Iowa, invited Bill and me to stay at his home, which we readily accepted . Hardy advised us to use the word furlough and not leave, as no one would know what we were talking about. I hope next to tell you about our advanced training on the A.T 6, but not before I tell you about being taken to the police station in Cedar Rapids for parking Hardy’s Pontiac next to a fire hydrant.
Last edited by cliffnemo; 3rd Aug 2008 at 16:46.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mac Op System.
Thanks for the suggestion, Brakedwell.
Will condsider it when I buy my next computer, but only purchased this one (on Vista ) recently.
Cliff.
Will condsider it when I buy my next computer, but only purchased this one (on Vista ) recently.
Cliff.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Finchampstead
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fareastdriver....on Page 6.....
I woz in a Sqn at Aldergrove once (well more than 'once' actually) talking to one of our pilots who announced proudly that 'his Dad flew Halifaxes and when he crashed at Aldergrove he nearly took out the Officers Mess'. Anyone know any details of that event?
Know about it! I was there.
For those that know Aldergrove if you stand outside the officer’s mess and look along the road that goes to the perimeter track there is what used to be a car park on the left. In the late forties there was a building there of which half was the WAAF officers quarters and the other half a married quarter, my father’s, so I used to have a grandstand view of Spitfires nosing over, Halifaxs landing with half the gear up and every other calamity that befell the station.
The Halifax you mentioned was on circuit training and I gather he fluffed an asymmetric overshoot. He was on the northerly runway with No 4 feathered. His resulting action caused it to follow the taxiway in front of the Belfast hangers only just about airborne. Unfortunately the starboard wing collected a parked Lancaster wingtip which slewed the aircraft so that it passed between the hangers and the old firing range that then had a lot of trees around it. This destroyed any semblance of flying speed and it was at this time that I first saw it.
It blasted out of the scenery, passed over the junction at the far end of the OM road and ended up in the coal dump between the OM and the old airmen’s quarters. There was an enormous cloud of coal dust and then the male section of ‘The Black and White Minstrel Show’ climbed out of the aircraft. The fascinating bit was watching a mainwheel roll down the road to the OM, trundle across the croquet pitch and expire on the front steps.
It wasn’t the most spectacular one I saw at Aldergrove. That was on an Empire Air Day in 1948 watching a RAF Tiger Moth doing low level aerobatics. He did a perfect 0.95 loop hitting the ground about thirty feet in front of me. The impact caused the engine to fold under the fuselage and when the various bits had returned to earth the pilot got out and start kicking the s**t out of the remains. After they had taken him away they put the wreckage on a trolley and placed it in the spectators enclosure so that they could see what a crashed aeroplane looked like. They then put half-a-dozen of us kids on the tailplane of a Spitfire to hold it down and gave us a quick fan with a Griffon at seemingly full chat.
A wonderful non-namby-pamby world.
For those that know Aldergrove if you stand outside the officer’s mess and look along the road that goes to the perimeter track there is what used to be a car park on the left. In the late forties there was a building there of which half was the WAAF officers quarters and the other half a married quarter, my father’s, so I used to have a grandstand view of Spitfires nosing over, Halifaxs landing with half the gear up and every other calamity that befell the station.
The Halifax you mentioned was on circuit training and I gather he fluffed an asymmetric overshoot. He was on the northerly runway with No 4 feathered. His resulting action caused it to follow the taxiway in front of the Belfast hangers only just about airborne. Unfortunately the starboard wing collected a parked Lancaster wingtip which slewed the aircraft so that it passed between the hangers and the old firing range that then had a lot of trees around it. This destroyed any semblance of flying speed and it was at this time that I first saw it.
It blasted out of the scenery, passed over the junction at the far end of the OM road and ended up in the coal dump between the OM and the old airmen’s quarters. There was an enormous cloud of coal dust and then the male section of ‘The Black and White Minstrel Show’ climbed out of the aircraft. The fascinating bit was watching a mainwheel roll down the road to the OM, trundle across the croquet pitch and expire on the front steps.
It wasn’t the most spectacular one I saw at Aldergrove. That was on an Empire Air Day in 1948 watching a RAF Tiger Moth doing low level aerobatics. He did a perfect 0.95 loop hitting the ground about thirty feet in front of me. The impact caused the engine to fold under the fuselage and when the various bits had returned to earth the pilot got out and start kicking the s**t out of the remains. After they had taken him away they put the wreckage on a trolley and placed it in the spectators enclosure so that they could see what a crashed aeroplane looked like. They then put half-a-dozen of us kids on the tailplane of a Spitfire to hold it down and gave us a quick fan with a Griffon at seemingly full chat.
A wonderful non-namby-pamby world.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Bacon And Eggs For Breakfast.
Below is a rather poor photo of a Lancaster that fortunately missed the sergeant's mess bar.
The no bacon and eggs heading is not strictly true, the rear gunner, not only had his bacon and eggs but was on parade the next day, not so the other six crew members.
We saw them coming back across the North Sea, below us, on three engines.Rumour had it that they undershot the runway and had removed the rudder trim on approach. Then gave the three engines full power with no trim, then stalled out on top of a hangar. I refuse to name the airman who took the photograph from inside his greatcoat.
KILROY WAS HERE
The no bacon and eggs heading is not strictly true, the rear gunner, not only had his bacon and eggs but was on parade the next day, not so the other six crew members.
We saw them coming back across the North Sea, below us, on three engines.Rumour had it that they undershot the runway and had removed the rudder trim on approach. Then gave the three engines full power with no trim, then stalled out on top of a hangar. I refuse to name the airman who took the photograph from inside his greatcoat.
KILROY WAS HERE