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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 24th May 2015, 22:58
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Beagle

I know what you mean, but as long as they do the job OK why worry?

Photo taken at Gan in 1958 (42-miles south of the equator) , so it must be hot!



Danny
OK it's 13-years after your WW2 stint in the Far East, but this 1958 photo pic shows how elegantly sartorial the RAF Nav wearing his white flying overalls of this Ceylon - Gan air-bridge Valetta is compared to his RNZAF counterpart wearing KD with slacks under the wing of the RNZAF Freighter at Gan as seen in the photo at the bottom. I assume the individually "tailored" white flying overalls were Changi village specials.





Compare with Sgt Henry Moon NCO i/c ASF Gan as he greeted the arrival of the aircraft c/w with greasy rag and probably a spanner in his back pocket!


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Old 25th May 2015, 00:11
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Danny42C
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BEagle,

One reason might have been that they were still wearing the wartime UK issue KD. This was rubbish.

Warmtoast's first pic (and Sgt Moon !) is more like it ! But look at his second - the Sgt in the foreground has had his KD slacks pressed (just look at that crease !) And the Nav. looks like a Painter and Decorator.

Seeing all our chaps working stripped to the waist makes me think of the way we're now supposed to lather ourselves with Factor 15 before venturing out in the Mediterranean sun. Dr.LeFanu (D.T.) some years ago mentioned this: one of his patients, an ex-desert rat, observed that he'd been chasing Rommel all around the N.African desert for a year or two shirtless and had no skin trouble of any kind in the following 30 years.

My theory is that they were not motionless on a lounger, but active and so presenting fresh areas of skin to the sun every few seconds.

Danny.
 
Old 25th May 2015, 07:11
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That the RAF groundcrew always looked scruffy especially in warmer climes was a direct reflection of the crap working kit we were issued with. 'Cardboard ' KD', no lightweight overalls and often no real way of laundering the kit.
When I was in Fighter Command we did not even own the working overalls we were required to use. They were issued weekly on an exchange basis and if you were mates with the storeman or first in the queue you MIGHT get a set that were an approximate fit. And if it was your lucky day they could even be clean !
When I went aircrew we were issued with cardboard KD. This was uncomfortable to wear and never looked smart. Of course as soon as we could most would get some decent KD from Singapore or Hong Kong.
When I was on Hastings one of our Air Engs was mistaken for a porter at Lisbon airport when wearing his issue KD ! This incident ended up as a letter to Air Clues I believe but no improvement in kit was forthcoming.
On 48 at Changi we wore the usual Nomex flying overalls which were not ideal for that climate. The lucky ones would obtain an RAAF flying siut which was more comfortable in the heat and humidity.
And what was the nickname for the standard RAF flying overall ? 'Growbag' in my day. Says it all I think.
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Old 25th May 2015, 08:09
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When we deployed a pair of VC10K3s to Hawaii for a certain operation, the DetCo decided that, whilst on duty, we'd wear either flying coveralls (if available for flying) or RAF KD - but with 'Akrotiri village type' bondhu boots rather than black DMS shoes. Some of the groundcrew muttered about having to buy their own bondhu boots, but were told that if they didn't want to, then there were probably others happy to take their places on the Hawaii det!

Somehow the message hadn't got through to the 'science party' who'd also deployed. When some Chief Tech was rounded up by the Hickam SPs, he'd been wandering around the aircraft parking area with his survey equipment, but dressed only in shorts and flip flops.... The sort of thing they used to slop around in when they were working with the 27 Sqn Vulcan dets at Midway. From then on they were told to dress in the same manner as everyone else! The TCW team, who couldn't believe their luck as they were usually deployed to muddy parts of Salisbury Plain, were always very military in their dress and manner though.

In hot climes, RAF groundcrew sometimes adopted the ridiculous habit of rolling up their KD shorts so that the pocket linings dangled down below the cuffs - they looked quite absurd.

No doubt elfin safety has laid down appropriate standards these days?
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Old 25th May 2015, 17:57
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BEagle,

".....they looked quite absurd..."

But a lot cooler ! The "Betty Grable" (ask Grandad) idea of rolling up shorts was popular in India, too. The issue KDs quite often hung below the knee. (Yes, I know you could get the same result with a pair of scissors, but your average erk was not too good at hemstitching).

Nobody bothered about it, we just got on with the war.

D.
 
Old 25th May 2015, 19:04
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Its sad that it seems that some, whose main duty was concerned with operating air conditioned aircraft around routes, often tropical in nature, believe that their own "immaculate" turnout could be maintained by personnel employed on heavy, physical work, in environments not conducive to such activity. I well remember my first overseas tour at Akrotiri, being issued with the "cardboard" KD of AA62s memory, and having the crotch rub, armpit sores etc as a result of attempting to be an airframe fitter whilst wearing it. Luckily, our resident bosses let practicality overcome the prejudices of visitors, who rarely underwent the discomfort. A walk from the exit steps to the crew bus is hardly "physical" effort. I would also argue, having done many deployments in both mainland USA and in concert with American forces, that they, like us, would get comfortable when necessary. I asked how in WW2, in Danny's experience, uniform requirements were adapted to suit the climate. Thanks for your insights Danny, I doubt though that an opportunity to snipe at "the groundcrew" is relevant.

Perhaps this is the smart US dress we should have been following;



Smudge
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Old 25th May 2015, 20:59
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the three blokes in line in the doorway appear to be sloping off to find
where to sit for the duration

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Old 26th May 2015, 22:41
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Fantome

These bods were very happy as it was "Tour Ex" for all of them and sitting anywhere on the aircraft I'm sure they'd have remained happy.
My recollection of PAX seats in the Valetta were that they were reasonably comfortable, I don't think they could be reclined, but for relatively short trips they were OK. And as the distance from Gan to Katunayake was ISTR only 640-miles, and with a normal flight time of around 3 hours 20 minutes, sitting upright wouldn't have been too bad.
For the longer legs that the FEAF Valettas flew i.e. Katunayake - Car Nicobar and on to Changi, sometimes via Butterworth, made one appreciate the refuelling stops where one could leave the aircraft and stretch one's legs.
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Old 26th May 2015, 23:03
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Smudge,

I'm a bit suspicious about the "Enola Gay" (looks as if it might have been superimposed on another B-29 pic) . And if the seven there are supposed to be the aircrew, they're four short.

Here's a pic of (the real) Tibbets (from Wiki). Not our man, I think !:




But this is the real clincher (Wiki) - see the difference in the '82's.



United States Air Force, via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

Brig. Gen. Paul W. Tibbets Jr. with his plane, the Enola Gay, in an undated photograph.



Assuming that this is a ground crew, then the only one "properly" dressed would be the Crew Chief (?) But note the pipe ! There is a whole Post to be written some time about the pipe craze in the war.

EDIT: "Enola Gay" were the Christian names of Tebbit's mother. It is difficult to imagine a similar thing happening in our more sophisticated times - (more's the pity).

Danny.

Last edited by Danny42C; 26th May 2015 at 23:33. Reason: Add Text.
 
Old 27th May 2015, 08:20
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Good spot, Danny42C

And the "G" of "Gay" is different too
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Old 27th May 2015, 18:31
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Danny,

I fully agree with you, and posted the picture, believing it to be Groundcrew, not aircrew, as scruffy Herbert's like myself were on the receiving end of some criticism, which I took to be a jibe at RAF Groundcrew, as opposed the Groundcrew of "other" Air Forces. My point being that, in my humble opinion, RAF Groundcrew have never looked any more "absurd" (not my word) than the Groundcrew of any other Air Force. I certainly had not noticed any photoshopping etc which may have been done, I'm no expert on that. Thanks for highlighting it.

Smudge
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Old 27th May 2015, 20:42
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Re my post #7088 above
made one appreciate the refuelling stops where one could leave the aircraft and stretch one's legs
I went through Car Nic a few times in 1956 – 1958, refuelling was done by the locally-based Indian Air Force personnel using an RAF supplied bowser. There was no terminal as such and on arrival pax disembarked and just hung around the aircraft to stretch their legs whilst it was being refuelled, as in the photo. Once refuelled we were off again ASAP.

My only photo of Car Nic shows just this.

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Old 28th May 2015, 17:51
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Smudge,

I agree with you. Our groundcrew were just as scruffy as any other while on the job (which they did magnificently under very difficult conditions, with little protection from sun and rain, often through the night to keep us flying).

Looking at your pic, I am beginning to think that these seven may not be groundcrew at all, but just seven lads " 'avin' a larf" witn their doctored pic of the B-29 in the backgound.

Danny.
 
Old 28th May 2015, 18:07
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Danny,

That would not be a first I'm sure. I think that you have put my feelings about the "smartness" or otherwise of RAF ground crew in perspective. For obvious reasons I will always defend the reasons why maintaining aircraft was not always the "glamorous" existence that those who flew them might envisage. I suppose my real response to Beagle, who suggested that our ground crew look "quite absurd" should have been to ask him how many times he had done a toilet replenishment on a VC10 in his best blue/flying suit. Excuse my getting excited on the subject, but some suggestions do need a response. Now, having acquired Regle' book, and enjoyed it, I have to report it has been stolen by Mrs Smudge, who reckons it's far better than an aviation story. Praise indeed I reckon, but worthy of praise. Do you have a copy ? I can put you on the distribution list after SWMBO has completed the tome.

Smudge
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Old 28th May 2015, 22:25
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Smudge,

Thanks, but daughter will get it up for me on Kindle for next birthday - seems a damn' good read from a remarkable man (sadly RIP).

He was Class 42A (the first) in the US Army Air Corps "Arnold Schools" (I was 42C, so just missed him). He said it was the finest flying school in the world.

Danny.

Last edited by Danny42C; 29th May 2015 at 17:52. Reason: Speling !
 
Old 1st Jun 2015, 16:33
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My old man was a theif

Sept '51 driving through Denham, my Father slows up and appears to be studying the hedge.
Step-Mother:- "What are you looking for?"
Father:- "I left a jar of petrol for my motor bike in there."
"When?"
"1918"
Me:- "I think it will have all evaporated by now."
Father:- "But the jar still might be there."

Thankfully we didn't stop to look for it.
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Old 1st Jun 2015, 18:01
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Little Brown Jug.

Pom Pax,

I don't know about m/bikes, but most cars of the period would have one something like this lashed on the running board, which was a very useful feature of cars (we ran a Vauxhall 12-6 [1938 vintage] as late as 1960, which
still had them).

(This thing will run you back £120 - ouch!)

The whole family could perch on them for picnics and shows and the like.

Danny.
 
Old 2nd Jun 2015, 08:45
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My father had one of those in the shed for years, it had POOL embossed on it for some reason. £120! - wish we'd kept it!!
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Old 2nd Jun 2015, 08:49
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Pool petrol was a standardised petrol in the days of rationing - the octane rating was variable!

Let Google be your friend, FZ

(e.g. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate...-11-13a.1366.3 )
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Old 2nd Jun 2015, 11:30
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Pool petrol aka pond petrol (due to its poor quality, I believe).
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