Coldwar RAF U-2 Pilots
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Coldwar RAF U-2 Pilots
This may have been covered before,so apologies if it has been. I am trying to locate any ex RAF Pilots who flew the U-2 during the coldwar in the 1950's and 1960's. I have the names of those RAF Pilots checked out at Area51 on the U-2. This information was given to me by one of the original USA/CIA Test Pilots on the U-2 prior to his passing last year.
Names and dates of check out
John W.McArthur 3 Jun 1958
David E.Dowling 4 Jun 1958
Michael G.Bradley 10 Jun 1958
Christopher H.Walker 12 Jun 1958 Killed in Crash of U-2 9 Jul 1958
Robert T.Robinson 29 Sep 1958
Ivan B.Webster 9 Mar 1961
Charles Taylor 13 Mar 1961
Martin E.Bee 10 Jun 1964
Basil W.Dodd 19 Jun 1964
Richard Cloke 1967
Harry Drew 1967
If anyone knows/knew any of these men, would be interested to hear from them.
Regds
The TT
Names and dates of check out
John W.McArthur 3 Jun 1958
David E.Dowling 4 Jun 1958
Michael G.Bradley 10 Jun 1958
Christopher H.Walker 12 Jun 1958 Killed in Crash of U-2 9 Jul 1958
Robert T.Robinson 29 Sep 1958
Ivan B.Webster 9 Mar 1961
Charles Taylor 13 Mar 1961
Martin E.Bee 10 Jun 1964
Basil W.Dodd 19 Jun 1964
Richard Cloke 1967
Harry Drew 1967
If anyone knows/knew any of these men, would be interested to hear from them.
Regds
The TT
I would suggest that you read the three excellent books by Chris Pocock on the U2, who was given unprecedented access by the U2 community to write the books.
He even got a flight in one !!
He even got a flight in one !!
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Cold War RAF U-2 pilots
Tartanterror
I've done a bit of research on this topic myself, so I can give you some answers but, as 'AirPig' mentioned, Chris Pocock is the real authority on this topic.
Robbie Robinson and John McArthur are, as far as I am aware, the only RAF pilots who took part in actual overflights of Russia - the others probably took part in some interesting sorties along the border of the Warsaw Pact, but these were probably after Frank Powers had been shot down.
Robbie Robinson died a while ago. John McArthur was alive about 7 years ago as I understand he was asked to give a presentation to the RAF Historical Society at their seminar on Cold War Intelligence Gathering held at the RAF Museum on 18 Apr 00. Sadly he had to decline as he could not obtain the appropriate approval from some 'minder' at MOD, despite the fact that these activites took place place some 40 years ago and are reported in detail in various books and publications!!
I do hope both Robbie Robinson John McArthur have written detailed accounts of their time on the U-2 that eventually find their way into the public domain. However, the 'official' line seems to be that these overflights by RAF pilots never actually happened! The offical MOD file on RAF U-2 operations has still not been released into the public domain, despite Chris Pocock's best efforts.
I have known Chris Pocock for a while and met up with him earlier this year for a natter, so if you PM me with your e-mail address, I'll give him a bell and see what he has to say. He attends most of the U-2 reunions in the USA, so he probably has the answers, but I suspect most of these guys have already passed away, without leaving a written record of their time on the aircraft.
In the meantime, you might like to have a look at my article on the U-2: www.spyflight.co.uk/u2.htm
Heimdall
I've done a bit of research on this topic myself, so I can give you some answers but, as 'AirPig' mentioned, Chris Pocock is the real authority on this topic.
Robbie Robinson and John McArthur are, as far as I am aware, the only RAF pilots who took part in actual overflights of Russia - the others probably took part in some interesting sorties along the border of the Warsaw Pact, but these were probably after Frank Powers had been shot down.
Robbie Robinson died a while ago. John McArthur was alive about 7 years ago as I understand he was asked to give a presentation to the RAF Historical Society at their seminar on Cold War Intelligence Gathering held at the RAF Museum on 18 Apr 00. Sadly he had to decline as he could not obtain the appropriate approval from some 'minder' at MOD, despite the fact that these activites took place place some 40 years ago and are reported in detail in various books and publications!!
I do hope both Robbie Robinson John McArthur have written detailed accounts of their time on the U-2 that eventually find their way into the public domain. However, the 'official' line seems to be that these overflights by RAF pilots never actually happened! The offical MOD file on RAF U-2 operations has still not been released into the public domain, despite Chris Pocock's best efforts.
I have known Chris Pocock for a while and met up with him earlier this year for a natter, so if you PM me with your e-mail address, I'll give him a bell and see what he has to say. He attends most of the U-2 reunions in the USA, so he probably has the answers, but I suspect most of these guys have already passed away, without leaving a written record of their time on the aircraft.
In the meantime, you might like to have a look at my article on the U-2: www.spyflight.co.uk/u2.htm
Heimdall
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Robbie Robinson was my tutor at ETPS for the first term. Here he is seated at our passout dinner in Dec 63.
He did not talk about his U2 flights during our time. I would not have known he had been on the U2 programme if another tutor had not mentioned it to me. Apologies for the poor quaity of the pic.
He did not talk about his U2 flights during our time. I would not have known he had been on the U2 programme if another tutor had not mentioned it to me. Apologies for the poor quaity of the pic.
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Lost U2 Pilots
Forgive the thread creep but many of us Down Under would like to know the circumstances of the loss of USAF pilot Bob Hyde and his U2 near Cuba during the crisis. We RAAFies based at Laverton much appreciated hosting Bob and some U2s when they were sniffing upper Antarctic air in the 1960s.
What happened to you Bob and did you get a postumous decoration?
Forgive the thread creep but many of us Down Under would like to know the circumstances of the loss of USAF pilot Bob Hyde and his U2 near Cuba during the crisis. We RAAFies based at Laverton much appreciated hosting Bob and some U2s when they were sniffing upper Antarctic air in the 1960s.
What happened to you Bob and did you get a postumous decoration?
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Heimdall will probably know this, but there is an official CIA history of the U-2 operations, which includes details of the British participation. however, these remain classified and are edited out of publicly accessible versions of the book
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/u2-index.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/u2-index.htm
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U-2/A-12/SR-71 reunion 2007 in Las vegas
........ a small but moving anecdote from the Las Vegas Reunion. As I stepped off the top of the escalator at the entrance to The Ballroom in the Gold Coast Casino hotel I met an old friend, Marty Knutson now 77 years old, who was one of the pilots with Frank Powers when they flew across Russia in the 1950’s. We chatted and he told me that he was fine and had recently had some good fortune. Another chum, John MacArthur, sometime RAF exchange U-2 pilot with him and now a Reverend in Australia was wont to call him about once a month.
Marty told him that his right eye was suffering from Macular Degeneration and that his driving licence was pulled. Leave it to me said John and promised to call him back in 3 weeks. He called and asked about the vision. Better, said Marty, but still needs more work. A month later when asked, Marty said his vision was back to normal and he had his driving licence. Marty asked John what he had done to achieve this. The reply “I asked my congregation of 300 to pray for you.”
Marty told him that his right eye was suffering from Macular Degeneration and that his driving licence was pulled. Leave it to me said John and promised to call him back in 3 weeks. He called and asked about the vision. Better, said Marty, but still needs more work. A month later when asked, Marty said his vision was back to normal and he had his driving licence. Marty asked John what he had done to achieve this. The reply “I asked my congregation of 300 to pray for you.”
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'Bumped' into Messrs Drew and Cloke some years ago in Waddo. Both doing a little pre retirement work for a well known defence company.
Both looked fit and well ( even to the the extent that the single again Drew had been spotted in close formation with an extremely attractive younger lady) - once you have got it .....
Rumour now is that they have both retired. Drew to the Lincs highlands and Cloke to his golf shop somewhere near Marham ? !!!
Both looked fit and well ( even to the the extent that the single again Drew had been spotted in close formation with an extremely attractive younger lady) - once you have got it .....
Rumour now is that they have both retired. Drew to the Lincs highlands and Cloke to his golf shop somewhere near Marham ? !!!
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Marty Knutson CIA U-2 pilot 1950s & 1960s ...
This is a picture of Marty Knutson taken at the Las Vegas 2007 Roadrunners Reunion. He was one of the first U-2 pilots based in Turkey.
He flew long missions years before INS or GPS were available - using Magellan equipment - sextant, drift sight with 2 x zoom facility, grid navigation, ADF (crank the handle, use BFO, if you knew the frequency) and pencil and paper.
The autopilot had two knobs for (pitch) Mach hold, an A & a B system. Rotating the knobs tweaked the gain in flight to achieve speed holds of 1 or 2 knots accuracy - and when one 'pot' got tired the other 'pot' was used. If both pots were bad, you were in major trouble with a 4 knots stall/mach buffet margin at high altitude.
Marty went on to be the Boss of NASA Ames and flew the SR-71.
He flew long missions years before INS or GPS were available - using Magellan equipment - sextant, drift sight with 2 x zoom facility, grid navigation, ADF (crank the handle, use BFO, if you knew the frequency) and pencil and paper.
The autopilot had two knobs for (pitch) Mach hold, an A & a B system. Rotating the knobs tweaked the gain in flight to achieve speed holds of 1 or 2 knots accuracy - and when one 'pot' got tired the other 'pot' was used. If both pots were bad, you were in major trouble with a 4 knots stall/mach buffet margin at high altitude.
Marty went on to be the Boss of NASA Ames and flew the SR-71.
Last edited by curvedsky; 20th Jan 2008 at 20:22.
It's because you have to host the image on an appropriate site - you can't just download from 't interweb.
Anyway, he.........re's Marty:
Anyway, he.........re's Marty:
Last edited by BEagle; 21st Jan 2008 at 12:02.
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the tartanterror error corrected ....
In your thread #1 you list John W.McArthur as having first flown the U-2A on 3 Jun 1958. Well John W.McArthur is an american test pilot who has never flown the U-2. This probably stems from a mistake made in a book by a Curtis Peebles " Shadow Flights "
The correct U-2 pilot is John A MacArthur AFC RAF who was born 14/2/30, commisioned 11/4/51, promoted to Sqn Ldr 1/7/64 and retired from the RAF GD Branch on 14/2/68 (data from the RAF Retired List 1979). He now lives in Australia.
See the many carefully researched books by Chris Pocock on the Lockheed U-2.
Hope that this helps!
The correct U-2 pilot is John A MacArthur AFC RAF who was born 14/2/30, commisioned 11/4/51, promoted to Sqn Ldr 1/7/64 and retired from the RAF GD Branch on 14/2/68 (data from the RAF Retired List 1979). He now lives in Australia.
See the many carefully researched books by Chris Pocock on the Lockheed U-2.
Hope that this helps!
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Maybe out of context, hopefully not.....
My father left my mother and his three sons in 1953 when I was 6 yrs old. He emigrated to America (New York) and formed a company called 'Aerosystems Inc'. After 38 yrs (!) I discovered my father was living on Long Island (NY). I went to America and met him for the first time in all that time and he took me to his Long Island home where we had a VERY long chat about what he had been doing with his life since leaving us in the lurch. During this conversation he said one of the things he had done was to design and build the cameras on Gary Powers' U2. His name was Richard Aubrey Hayes - I wonder if anyone reading this forum can confirm any credence in this. I know he was a genious and photography was his 'bag'.
Thanks in anticipation......
Thanks in anticipation......
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TT
Heimdall confirms that, both Robbie Robinson & John MacArthur were stationed at Detachment B in Incirlik, Turkey.
Quote:
21st Soviet Overflight Mission 8005, the first mission flown by the RAF. On 6th Dec 59 flown by Sqn Ldr Robbie Robinson out of Peshawar. North over Tyuratam, Kyshtym, Engels aifield near Saratov, Kapustin Yar and the bomber factory at Kuybyshev. Exited Soviet aispace over the Black Sea and recovered to Incirlik. The codename for the RAF participation in the U-2 programme was JACKSON.
22nd Soviet Overflight Mission 8009, the second mission flown by the RAF. On 5th Feb 60 flown by Flt Lt John MacArthur out of Peshawar. Headed northwest over the Aral Sea looking for missile sites, but discovered a new Soviet Bomber at Kazan, Eight Tu-22 BLINDER aircraft captured on film. Then south down the Volga over the missile factory at Dnepropetrovsk. After leaving Soviet airspace at Sevastopol, MacArthur landed at Incirlic.
Another brilliant piece of work Heimdall. Many thanks.
Heimdall confirms that, both Robbie Robinson & John MacArthur were stationed at Detachment B in Incirlik, Turkey.
Quote:
21st Soviet Overflight Mission 8005, the first mission flown by the RAF. On 6th Dec 59 flown by Sqn Ldr Robbie Robinson out of Peshawar. North over Tyuratam, Kyshtym, Engels aifield near Saratov, Kapustin Yar and the bomber factory at Kuybyshev. Exited Soviet aispace over the Black Sea and recovered to Incirlik. The codename for the RAF participation in the U-2 programme was JACKSON.
22nd Soviet Overflight Mission 8009, the second mission flown by the RAF. On 5th Feb 60 flown by Flt Lt John MacArthur out of Peshawar. Headed northwest over the Aral Sea looking for missile sites, but discovered a new Soviet Bomber at Kazan, Eight Tu-22 BLINDER aircraft captured on film. Then south down the Volga over the missile factory at Dnepropetrovsk. After leaving Soviet airspace at Sevastopol, MacArthur landed at Incirlic.
Another brilliant piece of work Heimdall. Many thanks.
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How Did The Raf Pilots On The U2 Log Their Time?
At the risk of thread creep, I'm curious to know how the old F414 (logbook) was kept by RAF pilots involved in this and other programs.
It would blow the secrecy a bit to have U2, serial xxxx, self, duty and 8 hrs 30 mins, all recorded in green ink.......
Might raise a few eyebrows on the next posting. Imagine saying to a CFS "Trapper" you can't see my logbook or that all entries between date x and y have been "re-dacted" but I'm current on ....... and you'll have to take my word that my IR is in date!
MB
It would blow the secrecy a bit to have U2, serial xxxx, self, duty and 8 hrs 30 mins, all recorded in green ink.......
Might raise a few eyebrows on the next posting. Imagine saying to a CFS "Trapper" you can't see my logbook or that all entries between date x and y have been "re-dacted" but I'm current on ....... and you'll have to take my word that my IR is in date!
MB
As far as I recall it, heard from someone whose name is on the list posted earlier, they didn't log specific flights, there was simply an entry that they had served on some unit for the period of time involved - can anyone verify this?
