First the Vulcan, but what next?
Which was the 2nd east-west trans atlantic crossing of a Mossie in a matter of a few years, as B.35 RS709 had been bought by the USAFM from Doug Arnold and flown over to Dayton, by IIRC, again George Aird a few years before.
And now we have none........
And now we have none........
Originally Posted by airborne_artist
GR - with my lottery win I'm buying/restoring a Mossie and a Sea Fury. So it'll be sorted
However, to fly it here, you would be restricted to having to waving shed loads of cash infront of either Bob Jens (Can) or Kermit Weeks (USA), as it's likely that these are the only two in private hands that could be operated in the UK under CAA as BAe have withdrawn DA on the type, so that means any of the 'new build' Mosquito restoration being undertaken in NZ would not meet CAA/BAe requirements.
I had the pleasure(!) of flying the last Halifax (now at YAM Elvington). Actually, I should say part of the last Halifax, as a Chinook usl from a crofters' back garden near Stornoway. It flew like a pig and probably did the journey the other way on a horse drawn cart quicker.
But it would be nice to see another 4-piston in the UK again. Come on WL790 where are you?
But it would be nice to see another 4-piston in the UK again. Come on WL790 where are you?
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Oscar Tango
There is a Mossie (or most of it) in good, dry, safe storage in Norfolk...in bits. Could this be the Suffolk one moved slightly North/North East?
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Although I'm not associated with it, I don't think it is very high up the list of restoration projects for the folks concerned. There are too many 'interesting' projects ahead of it, to put it on the active list...just yet.
.
Although I'm not associated with it, I don't think it is very high up the list of restoration projects for the folks concerned. There are too many 'interesting' projects ahead of it, to put it on the active list...just yet.
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Leaks fuel like a colendar while on the ground as the tanks need airframe kinetic expansion of mach 2 to seal.The type of Avtur used was unique to the aircraft as well. 
Hydraulic and engine oil has to be replenished just before start up and removed after shut down because it reverts to a waxy / solid state at room temperature.
Hydraulic and engine oil has to be replenished just before start up and removed after shut down because it reverts to a waxy / solid state at room temperature.
Thats what some folk said about the Vulcan. The only limit is the mind... well, and dosh, and US gov.
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Realistically, I think we've all accepted that the CAA isn't going to permit a Lightning to fly again in the UK. As I've said many times before, I think the CAA's attitude stinks, and I wish an MP would make an effort to ask some serious questions about the CAA and how they are able to create their own rules and regulations, without any honest attempt to base their views on practical experience and technical expertise that would clearly indicate to anyone with less cynicism that a suitably-capable team would be perfectly able to safely operate an aircraft like the Lightning.
Having said this, I think from a financial viewpoint a Lightning would be a very difficult aircraft to support even if the CAA's rules were different. For example, a Canberra and Meteor F8 went overseas largely because of insufficient interest in the UK, and the Sea Vixen is still struggling to find a future down at Bournemouth. Practically-speaking, I think the best we could hope for is that sponsorship for the Vixen will be found and that Coventry's two Canberras will enjoy a more secure future.
My real gripe though, is that the CAA seem to have a problem with the Shackleton which could have been back in the skies over here by now. It's hard to know what ludicrous excuses even the CAA can find to prohibit a relatively simple four-engined piston from operating here, especially when aircraft like the Connie and DC6 seem to be regarded as acceptable. Surely, a contra-prop doesn't suddenly render a piston type as being complex, otherwise even the poor Gannet (okay it's not a piston) would remain grounded (which it seems to be managing to do even without the CAA's help).
My vote would be for supporting Avro's second-greatest aircraft, and persuading the miserable, blinkered CAA mandarins to get real, and respect Air Atlantique's abilities, and let the Shack come home.
Then again, there's all that Vulcan expertise at Bruntingthorpe now and another airframe sitting down at Southend...
Having said this, I think from a financial viewpoint a Lightning would be a very difficult aircraft to support even if the CAA's rules were different. For example, a Canberra and Meteor F8 went overseas largely because of insufficient interest in the UK, and the Sea Vixen is still struggling to find a future down at Bournemouth. Practically-speaking, I think the best we could hope for is that sponsorship for the Vixen will be found and that Coventry's two Canberras will enjoy a more secure future.
My real gripe though, is that the CAA seem to have a problem with the Shackleton which could have been back in the skies over here by now. It's hard to know what ludicrous excuses even the CAA can find to prohibit a relatively simple four-engined piston from operating here, especially when aircraft like the Connie and DC6 seem to be regarded as acceptable. Surely, a contra-prop doesn't suddenly render a piston type as being complex, otherwise even the poor Gannet (okay it's not a piston) would remain grounded (which it seems to be managing to do even without the CAA's help).
My vote would be for supporting Avro's second-greatest aircraft, and persuading the miserable, blinkered CAA mandarins to get real, and respect Air Atlantique's abilities, and let the Shack come home.
Then again, there's all that Vulcan expertise at Bruntingthorpe now and another airframe sitting down at Southend...
Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
I wish an MP would make an effort to ask some serious questions about the CAA
Government Strategic Review of the CAA 2007
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Oh, I'm not talking about restoring one to operational condition. The problems you mention were only due to the neccessity to withstand extreme heat. Airshow passes wouldn't involve M3+ flight. Tank sealants, oil etc, would not need to withstand high temps, therefore alternatives could be used (and have been in the past). A restored SR-71 wouldn't even need to use JP-7, as J-58's could happily drink JP-4 or 5 (limiting the aircraft to M1.5).L:
Thats what some folk said about the Vulcan. The only limit is the mind... well, and dosh, and US gov.
The Vulcan will hopefully be blessed with corporate sponsorship now. However they have struggled, even with lottery money and rich benifactors.
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Surely with more carpenters in this country than sheet-metal workers, a mossie wouldn't be that expensive to put back in the air when compared to a metal airframe.
In fact-if anybody has any plans for a mossie, I might just put a team of Polish chippy's together myself.
In fact-if anybody has any plans for a mossie, I might just put a team of Polish chippy's together myself.
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Now thats just absurd WM, you've more chance of seeing the Spruce Goose flying.
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Wish list:
Lightning
TSR2
Concorde
Mosquito
Reality:
Scampton Bucc
Just Jane
Re-engineered Mosquito
I can't see the CAA permitting a Lighting to fly in the UK under anything other than RAF or BAe control.
Lightning
TSR2
Concorde
Mosquito
Reality:
Scampton Bucc
Just Jane
Re-engineered Mosquito
I can't see the CAA permitting a Lighting to fly in the UK under anything other than RAF or BAe control.
Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
My real gripe though, is that the CAA seem to have a problem with the Shackleton which could have been back in the skies over here by now. It's hard to know what ludicrous excuses even the CAA can find to prohibit a relatively simple four-engined piston from operating here, especially when aircraft like the Connie and DC6 seem to be regarded as acceptable. Surely, a contra-prop doesn't suddenly render a piston type as being complex, otherwise even the poor Gannet (okay it's not a piston) would remain grounded (which it seems to be managing to do even without the CAA's help).
My vote would be for supporting Avro's second-greatest aircraft, and persuading the miserable, blinkered CAA mandarins to get real, and respect Air Atlantique's abilities, and let the Shack come home.
My vote would be for supporting Avro's second-greatest aircraft, and persuading the miserable, blinkered CAA mandarins to get real, and respect Air Atlantique's abilities, and let the Shack come home.
I believe since AA have done the work on the BBMF Lanc they have would have BAe approval to do the work (if there's enough material left over after PA474's respar a few years back). It's been reported that the CAA have agreed to a one flight only ferry of the Shack back into the UK from the USA, and it's just a matter of logistics vs. cost and all that other financial stuff as to whether it happens or not.......
Originally Posted by brain fade
If I win the lottery, which is unlikely..........................as I don't buy the tickets.
I'll put an F-105 up.
Now there's a thankless task.
I'll put an F-105 up.
Now there's a thankless task.
The Collings Foundation have recently tried to do exactly this and instantly an order went out to butcher the likely restorable F-105's so they would never fly again.....
Originally Posted by Mark Nine
Surely with more carpenters in this country than sheet-metal workers, a mossie wouldn't be that expensive to put back in the air when compared to a metal airframe.
Glyn Powell in NZ has spent several decades
building the moulds and now is building new build Mossie fuselages for several restoration projects.For an indication of what involved in a Mossie rebuild, see here for the rebuild of Jerry Yegans FB.26 using Glyn Powell's new builds.
http://www.warbirdrestoration.co.nz/current.html#ka114
But you would have a real problem getting one of these past the CAA/BAe.
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Originally Posted by Tim Mclelland
As I've said many times before, I think the CAA's attitude stinks, and I wish an MP would make an effort to ask some serious questions about the CAA and how they are able to create their own rules and regulations,
Define 'soon', haltonapprentoid - it still hasn't been decided...
Now 13 years since I first worked with MoD DFS civil serpents looking at 'Future Tanker Aircraft' - whilst enjoying teaching people about the mighty Vickers FunBus with you, mon brave!
Now 13 years since I first worked with MoD DFS civil serpents looking at 'Future Tanker Aircraft' - whilst enjoying teaching people about the mighty Vickers FunBus with you, mon brave!
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The Mossie has a special place in the RAF's history
The Light Night Striking Force of Mosquitos during one phase of the war made bombing raids to Berlin on 43 consecutive occasions without a break. Sometimes the same aircraft would make a second raid on the same night. The Light Night Striking Force flew 553 sorties during April 1943 for the loss of only one aircraft.
The LNSF used to operate in the most appalling weather and one night Air Vice Marshal Donald Bennett was visited by Mrs. Ogden Reid of the New York Herald Tribune. She had asked to witness the start of a raid. This distinguished lady of the American press arrived with a member of the British Government and was immediately driven to the end of the runway by Bennett. Fog caused heavy bomber raids to be cancelled but as the mist swirled around the signal caravan at the end of the runway Mosquitos could be seen taxying on from both directions to save time, lining up and taking off for Berlin in quick succession. She turned to Bennett and said, "I see they have got a bulge - they’re carrying a “Blockbuster” aren’t they?" She asked what it weighed and Bennett told her 4000 lbs which was 500 lbs more than a B-17 Flying Fortress could carry to Berlin. In any case, he pointed out, a Fortress would not accommodate a 4000 lb “cookie” because it was too large for its bomb bay. The famous Press lady pondered for a few moments before replying "I only hope the American public never realises these facts."
One young Mosquito pilot of those days was Wing Commander 1. G. Broom (later Air Marshal Sir Ivor Broom DSO, DFC and two bars, AFC). “We did 25 nights to Berlin. You could fly there and be back in the mess before the bar closed. We could carry more to Berlin with a crew of two in a Mosquito than could a Flying Fortress with a crew of ten. They had to fight their way there and back in daylight. We went fast at night, at 28,000 ft.”
The Light Night Striking Force of Mosquitos during one phase of the war made bombing raids to Berlin on 43 consecutive occasions without a break. Sometimes the same aircraft would make a second raid on the same night. The Light Night Striking Force flew 553 sorties during April 1943 for the loss of only one aircraft.
The LNSF used to operate in the most appalling weather and one night Air Vice Marshal Donald Bennett was visited by Mrs. Ogden Reid of the New York Herald Tribune. She had asked to witness the start of a raid. This distinguished lady of the American press arrived with a member of the British Government and was immediately driven to the end of the runway by Bennett. Fog caused heavy bomber raids to be cancelled but as the mist swirled around the signal caravan at the end of the runway Mosquitos could be seen taxying on from both directions to save time, lining up and taking off for Berlin in quick succession. She turned to Bennett and said, "I see they have got a bulge - they’re carrying a “Blockbuster” aren’t they?" She asked what it weighed and Bennett told her 4000 lbs which was 500 lbs more than a B-17 Flying Fortress could carry to Berlin. In any case, he pointed out, a Fortress would not accommodate a 4000 lb “cookie” because it was too large for its bomb bay. The famous Press lady pondered for a few moments before replying "I only hope the American public never realises these facts."
One young Mosquito pilot of those days was Wing Commander 1. G. Broom (later Air Marshal Sir Ivor Broom DSO, DFC and two bars, AFC). “We did 25 nights to Berlin. You could fly there and be back in the mess before the bar closed. We could carry more to Berlin with a crew of two in a Mosquito than could a Flying Fortress with a crew of ten. They had to fight their way there and back in daylight. We went fast at night, at 28,000 ft.”