VULCAN 607
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An interesting diversionary activity for the RAF then. 
Perhaps if the Ark hadn't been scrapped we'd have been able to let her take care of the Argie mainland airfields whilst the STOVL carriers provided the CAP for the invasion?
Perhaps if the Ark hadn't been scrapped we'd have been able to let her take care of the Argie mainland airfields whilst the STOVL carriers provided the CAP for the invasion?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
and don't confuse tactical with strategic.
The holes in the runway were one thing, the radius of action sent a quite different message.
The holes in the runway were one thing, the radius of action sent a quite different message.
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"The Hole", I think, Pontius. IMHO the decision to abandon the lay-down attack (2F?) from low level, which could have resulted in 21 holes down the length of the runway, and go for the pop-up to medium level (2J?) was controversial. Much was made in the book of the limited effect of the lay-down weapon (spalling) on hard pavements compared with the cratering caused by ballistic delivery from a reasonable height. How hard, however, was the runway? The RE had the construction drawings of the runway direct from the contractors and, if I remember clearly, the combined thickness of the asphalt surface and the crushed stone foundation was not much more than 2 ft. It was only designed to provide for low-intensity use by light transport aircraft. The LCN was pathetic. The Sappers' main worry was how to beef it up, after recapture, to support operations by C130 at very high weights, and by F4s and, perhaps, Buccaneers, until a permanent runway could be provided at MPA. I think a stick 1,000 lb bombs laid down along the runway would have knackered it for a long time. Crushed rock for repairs was extremely difficult to obtain as the local rock is some of the hardest in the world; it buggered up the first rock-crusher that the Sappers took with them. And that is probably why the Argie attempt at a crater repair was abandoned. I knew a Gp Capt Nav at Strike, who was using the NBS when the Nav Rads on Black Buck were still in short pants, who was incandescent at the decision to "pop-up". If the copilot had NVGs (not in my time!) an accurate lay-down pass down the centreline should have been relatively easy.
Nevertheless the book was gripping.
Nevertheless the book was gripping.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Considering the technics practised in the late 60s early 70s we had 5 options.
Going up these were:
2F laydown from 300 feet. Tight spacing using the 117 retard tails but certainly not down the centreline. This could have given 21 hits but was more likely to give 21 misses.
2J a low pop to 2500 feet for a ballistic attack and designed to remain below the lower limit of the earlier SA2. Later SA2 mods reduced the lower limit to 1200 feet so the 2J was a dead duck.
2G a low pop to 8000 feet for a ballistic attack in a non-SAM environment. This was 'sold' as being above the controlled light AAA. Was it a coincidence that the lower limit of the Calc 3 was 7200 feet.
2 pop down. This did not have a designated letter but was quite exciting. This was in a medium SAM threat with a high approach for fuel economy and speed. At about 45 miles the ac would go into a max rate descent to about 18-20000 feet levelling at about 15 miles and one minute or so to release. This would have been a good option in FI as it would improve accuracy but still achieve a good impact velocity.
2C was a low pop to 27000 feet for a ballistic attack with a Red Beard,
2A was a SAM evasive bomb run in a high SAM threat area. Given the post Powers SAM threat it was strange that we still considered the 2A against Indonesian SA2 in 1964 and practised the 2A until 1968.
Finally 2, by 1960 this must surely have been a pure academic exercise.
The best bet therefore was the pop-down to 18000-20000 feet using the forge cased 1000 lb and the Mk 75 or 906 (?) tail fuse. For good measure they should have included 3 x Mk 79 delay pistols. The optimum angle of cut would be 30 deg.
Going up these were:
2F laydown from 300 feet. Tight spacing using the 117 retard tails but certainly not down the centreline. This could have given 21 hits but was more likely to give 21 misses.
2J a low pop to 2500 feet for a ballistic attack and designed to remain below the lower limit of the earlier SA2. Later SA2 mods reduced the lower limit to 1200 feet so the 2J was a dead duck.
2G a low pop to 8000 feet for a ballistic attack in a non-SAM environment. This was 'sold' as being above the controlled light AAA. Was it a coincidence that the lower limit of the Calc 3 was 7200 feet.
2 pop down. This did not have a designated letter but was quite exciting. This was in a medium SAM threat with a high approach for fuel economy and speed. At about 45 miles the ac would go into a max rate descent to about 18-20000 feet levelling at about 15 miles and one minute or so to release. This would have been a good option in FI as it would improve accuracy but still achieve a good impact velocity.
2C was a low pop to 27000 feet for a ballistic attack with a Red Beard,
2A was a SAM evasive bomb run in a high SAM threat area. Given the post Powers SAM threat it was strange that we still considered the 2A against Indonesian SA2 in 1964 and practised the 2A until 1968.
Finally 2, by 1960 this must surely have been a pure academic exercise.
The best bet therefore was the pop-down to 18000-20000 feet using the forge cased 1000 lb and the Mk 75 or 906 (?) tail fuse. For good measure they should have included 3 x Mk 79 delay pistols. The optimum angle of cut would be 30 deg.
Vulcan 607
Just finished reading Rowland White's "Vulcan 607" - the account of the Black Buck long range bombing mission. What a story - I hadn't realised that it was such a close run thing.
Without wishing to take anything at all away from Martin Withers and his crew, Bob Tuxford emerges as the real hero.
I had the privilege of flying with Bob on a flight trial a year or two later and I only wish that I'd known then of the part he played in this epic.
This was the real 'can do' Air Force.
Without wishing to take anything at all away from Martin Withers and his crew, Bob Tuxford emerges as the real hero.
I had the privilege of flying with Bob on a flight trial a year or two later and I only wish that I'd known then of the part he played in this epic.
This was the real 'can do' Air Force.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
FJJP,
Can't comment on that but since it was a sharp pointy thing compared with the dust bin the rest of us were dropping it would certainly have hit the ground sooner if dropped from 11k.
It may have needed 16k to give the turbines time to run up and power the capacitors and also to increase your escape distance.
Can't comment on that but since it was a sharp pointy thing compared with the dust bin the rest of us were dropping it would certainly have hit the ground sooner if dropped from 11k.
It may have needed 16k to give the turbines time to run up and power the capacitors and also to increase your escape distance.
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Great stories on this thread. I have the book, but yet to read it. Speaking to someone who is a regular vistor to the Falklands about the raids, he mentioned the Port Stanley Golf Club members are still 'miffed' to this day that the golf course suffered some turf damage from BB.
Some will never see the historical value of the BB missions! Well done to those on the V Force - I say.
Some will never see the historical value of the BB missions! Well done to those on the V Force - I say.
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[QUOTE=
Dropping 28lb practice bombs at Wainfleet to try & calibrate the kit from about 16,000 ft - "Running in hot at Height X!" - no-one listening would have worked out something different was happening...!!
The first bomb (not surprisingly!) got a score something like: "Er, 270/1955 yds - not quite on the range tower, but rather close!!"
So much was done at short notice, probably lots of it has been forgotten![/QUOTE]
I used to be @ Cowden AWR and remember opening the range on a Saturday for the guys to practice laydowns on TGT 8 bombing through the airway, reasonable score from what I remember
VEEPS
Dropping 28lb practice bombs at Wainfleet to try & calibrate the kit from about 16,000 ft - "Running in hot at Height X!" - no-one listening would have worked out something different was happening...!!
The first bomb (not surprisingly!) got a score something like: "Er, 270/1955 yds - not quite on the range tower, but rather close!!"So much was done at short notice, probably lots of it has been forgotten![/QUOTE]
I used to be @ Cowden AWR and remember opening the range on a Saturday for the guys to practice laydowns on TGT 8 bombing through the airway, reasonable score from what I remember
VEEPS
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Vulcan on Discovery Wings
Did anyone record the documentary about the Vulcan on Discovery Wings last Wed 16th missed it ...Twice in one night ... Was in work... Thanks in advance.. Wilmot
Suspicion breeds confidence
If we'd kept the Ark the Argies wouldn't have invaded in the first place!
Suspicion breeds confidence
mlc,
I've got Dave Morgan's book and I would encourage you to buy as its something you would read several times. I think I got both for about £15 from Amazon
I've got Dave Morgan's book and I would encourage you to buy as its something you would read several times. I think I got both for about £15 from Amazon