F4 Phantom
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F4 Phantom
If I've missed it, my apologies, but what with the Vulcan, Victor and Canberra threads all receiving a large number of hits ( and great stories!) it would be churlish not to have one about the F4.
Having worshiped it from afar in the 60s and been privileged to be chopped on it in the 70s by the breaker of the only proper flying Me 109, I would love to hear more of this outstanding aircraft in RAF service.
Having worshiped it from afar in the 60s and been privileged to be chopped on it in the 70s by the breaker of the only proper flying Me 109, I would love to hear more of this outstanding aircraft in RAF service.
The 'Breaker of the only proper flying Me109' was the only real aircrew-friendly 4-star. Excellent chap who, having owned up to his own cock-up with the Gustav, realised that 'blame culture' had no place in the avoidance of repeat incidents. Ba$tard Bill was a much lesser person, but don't we all know that....
Perhaps the best 4-star of recent years, in my humble opinion.
Sorry he failed you; I got a bit further on the F4 but didn't like the lifestyle very much. After being chopped having been 'Operational' on the beast, I was partly glad to get away form the rat-packs, secret squirrels and certain pi$$ed, incompetent navigators who infested the F4 squadrons of the time...
OK - let's put it to the vote. Do we include the 'toom in the 'Did you fly' stickies?
Perhaps the best 4-star of recent years, in my humble opinion.
Sorry he failed you; I got a bit further on the F4 but didn't like the lifestyle very much. After being chopped having been 'Operational' on the beast, I was partly glad to get away form the rat-packs, secret squirrels and certain pi$$ed, incompetent navigators who infested the F4 squadrons of the time...
OK - let's put it to the vote. Do we include the 'toom in the 'Did you fly' stickies?
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BEagle,
Don't get me wrong, I am still in love with the F4 and saddened only that I didn't get more time on type. My reason for posting was that this is a superb environment for a closer association with the things that seemed to matter then.
I concede your point about the secret squirrel aspect, I probably suffered from it as well, considering my subsequent postings.
If you consider the topic worthy of further investigation - great - if not, it will die a natural death. It's called democracy, or voting with your keyboard.
Don't get me wrong, I am still in love with the F4 and saddened only that I didn't get more time on type. My reason for posting was that this is a superb environment for a closer association with the things that seemed to matter then.
I concede your point about the secret squirrel aspect, I probably suffered from it as well, considering my subsequent postings.
If you consider the topic worthy of further investigation - great - if not, it will die a natural death. It's called democracy, or voting with your keyboard.
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With nearly 3000hrs F4 it is hard not to feel attached to the 'Toom' and it is only the lack of a British pedigree that detracts from the nostalgia.
During the hayday of the Lightning the American squadrons were turning and burning in F4s and it was a pleasure to leave the Lightning and fly the F4 with its' vastly better weapons system and multi-role capability. Even our politicians failed to ruin it by fitting Spey engines - although they came close when the engines were only lasting 100hrs or so in the early days.
In the F4 we had the best weapons system of the day and the stretch potential to last for years - it was almost as if we had entered a new generation with inertial nav and pulse doppler radar. Admittedly it took the cancellation of TSR2 to force the procurement of both it and the Buccaneer but in these two aircraft we had a very capable front line.
Sadly, it was the last fast jet we were allowed to buy from across the pond.
During the hayday of the Lightning the American squadrons were turning and burning in F4s and it was a pleasure to leave the Lightning and fly the F4 with its' vastly better weapons system and multi-role capability. Even our politicians failed to ruin it by fitting Spey engines - although they came close when the engines were only lasting 100hrs or so in the early days.
In the F4 we had the best weapons system of the day and the stretch potential to last for years - it was almost as if we had entered a new generation with inertial nav and pulse doppler radar. Admittedly it took the cancellation of TSR2 to force the procurement of both it and the Buccaneer but in these two aircraft we had a very capable front line.
Sadly, it was the last fast jet we were allowed to buy from across the pond.
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Sincerely hope this topic is as popular as the other "Did you fly......." threads, I've been a phan (sorry!) of the Rhino since I used to stare transfixed at them through the fence at Coningsby when I wer' a lad!, our local ATC sqn did a base visit in June '87, one month after they had left for Leuchars, did get to sit in the sim though!
Regards, RP
Regards, RP
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RAF Stanley, 3rd tour, 1983.
The F4 came in quite handy for steam cleaning the snow off the runway.
I was lucky enough, being a common oik, to be offered a back seat ride, when one was being taken up for a stress test!
I’ve got to take my hat off to the crews for this unforgettable experience.
If you are the driver, you know what is going to happen, ‘cos you move the stick and pedals.
Quite how the back seat guys manage to type, and push the right buttons, God alone knows.
I remember trolling along quite nicely, and the driver asks ”Are you ready for this?”
“Go for it” I replied.
The only thing I can think of, to sum up the next 20 minutes or so is
BU66ER ME
The F4 came in quite handy for steam cleaning the snow off the runway.
I was lucky enough, being a common oik, to be offered a back seat ride, when one was being taken up for a stress test!
I’ve got to take my hat off to the crews for this unforgettable experience.
If you are the driver, you know what is going to happen, ‘cos you move the stick and pedals.
Quite how the back seat guys manage to type, and push the right buttons, God alone knows.
I remember trolling along quite nicely, and the driver asks ”Are you ready for this?”
“Go for it” I replied.
The only thing I can think of, to sum up the next 20 minutes or so is
BU66ER ME
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But it caused a few problems operating from a rolled and sanded snow-packed runway at Andoya. The first pairs take-off neatly turned the runway into an ice-covered skating rink and only a very efficient Norwegian hot sanding operation enabled them to land back on.
After that it was take-offs on the left and landings on the right.
After that it was take-offs on the left and landings on the right.
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Excellent choice of aircraft for a post, have never seen one fly but have drooled over a couple at Duxford and Hendon.
What ever became of Robert Priest who wrote that superb book ?
What ever became of Robert Priest who wrote that superb book ?
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Bob Pr(i)est...
I have a great deal of bother imagining Bob Prest as a priest, so I assume that was a typo? As I recall he wasn't the type to wear dog-collars, anything really cool was more in his line.
Last I heard he was in SOAF on Strikemasters, but that was a long, long time ago. Nice to hear more about him
Last I heard he was in SOAF on Strikemasters, but that was a long, long time ago. Nice to hear more about him
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A true international classic.
Had the flying characteriscics of a brick sh#t-house, was built like one too and overcame nearly all of its deficiancies with brute thrust. The FG1 had a nav system guaranteed to make you laugh - if the nav kit made it to the same country as you it was a wonderful one. the FGR2 - a solid work-horse and the F4J a great little rocket-ship. All predated the computer! She would bite if you got it wrong but rewarded you handsomly when you got it right. Like most who had the pleasure to fly one - Phantastic. I think most of us were in love with the Big ******, I certainly was for 8 yrs worth of flying and still am now. landings = take-offs which is good!
Had the flying characteriscics of a brick sh#t-house, was built like one too and overcame nearly all of its deficiancies with brute thrust. The FG1 had a nav system guaranteed to make you laugh - if the nav kit made it to the same country as you it was a wonderful one. the FGR2 - a solid work-horse and the F4J a great little rocket-ship. All predated the computer! She would bite if you got it wrong but rewarded you handsomly when you got it right. Like most who had the pleasure to fly one - Phantastic. I think most of us were in love with the Big ******, I certainly was for 8 yrs worth of flying and still am now. landings = take-offs which is good!
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From a ginger beer perspective I had the pleasure of working on the "last one" (XT597) at Boscombe during my time there. (Despite buring me hand more than once on the pitot tube whilst trying not to fall off the spine during BF's!!) 
Always enjoyed watching it escape for the day for the many and varied trials work.
Am reminded of it daily due to the Boscombe commisioned Philip West print above my desk.
Always enjoyed watching it escape for the day for the many and varied trials work.
Am reminded of it daily due to the Boscombe commisioned Philip West print above my desk.
BEagle,
Be very careful, please, in any analysis of the "Black 6" accident. The pilot admitted to a misjudged forced landing. However, the reason why this was necesary in the first place was never conclusively proven. I suggest that anyone who is interested visits the AAIB website, www.dft.gov.uk/ and looks under Accident Investigation in the bulletins for May 1998 for the accident report.
rustybh, 597, now there was a jet that brings back memories. It still sits outside the "museum at Boscombe. Still went to Mach 2 nicely right until the end (not easy in most Spey-engined ones). 852, the YF-4M was another nice one. Happy memories.
My F4 conversion lasted 2 1/2 days; the one day "senior officers' refresher" groundschool (i.e. what you really neded to know), an hour in the sim and a couple of dual trips. It was so much easier in the circuit than the Bucc as you did not approach at the AoA limit and you had thrust in hand! The only problem with flying both was that the audio AoA tones in the Phantom FG1 were in the opposite sense to those in the Bucc! And from 600 KIAS on the deck in a clean F4 you could make around 30,000 ft in a vertical climb at the end of a display. Those were the days.
Be very careful, please, in any analysis of the "Black 6" accident. The pilot admitted to a misjudged forced landing. However, the reason why this was necesary in the first place was never conclusively proven. I suggest that anyone who is interested visits the AAIB website, www.dft.gov.uk/ and looks under Accident Investigation in the bulletins for May 1998 for the accident report.
rustybh, 597, now there was a jet that brings back memories. It still sits outside the "museum at Boscombe. Still went to Mach 2 nicely right until the end (not easy in most Spey-engined ones). 852, the YF-4M was another nice one. Happy memories.
My F4 conversion lasted 2 1/2 days; the one day "senior officers' refresher" groundschool (i.e. what you really neded to know), an hour in the sim and a couple of dual trips. It was so much easier in the circuit than the Bucc as you did not approach at the AoA limit and you had thrust in hand! The only problem with flying both was that the audio AoA tones in the Phantom FG1 were in the opposite sense to those in the Bucc! And from 600 KIAS on the deck in a clean F4 you could make around 30,000 ft in a vertical climb at the end of a display. Those were the days.
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Happy days - First engine runs I ever did were on 597 when I was fresh from the apprentices. Cold frosty mornings, earplugs, defenders, wooly hat and hood up on my greens and it was still to damn loud!!
Actually I was there when he explained that he had made a mistake (OK, not a cock-up) - and that had helped him to realise the significant difference between human factors mistakes (no-one is 100% perfect) and reckless behaviour (idiots deliberately disobeying clear orders). He said this in front of an audience of aircrew - we all respected him for that. Top bloke - and still is!
Reason for the initial cause of the problem hasn't been established.
I suspect that we agree!
Back to the F4......
Reason for the initial cause of the problem hasn't been established.
I suspect that we agree!
Back to the F4......
