Ukraine calling for UN intervention
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Just so long as you're not gay, or a journalist, or a political opponent...
Vladimir Putin@DarthPutinKGBApr 11
I've managed to do something so stupid that it was a @SarahPalinUSA prediction. http://goo.gl/tkhaAw #Ukraine #Crimea
I've managed to do something so stupid that it was a @SarahPalinUSA prediction. http://goo.gl/tkhaAw #Ukraine #Crimea
Obviously Putin not stupid, its going all his own way.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Alternative forms of warfare being explored.
Daily Torygraph: US financial showdown with Russia is more dangerous than it looks, for both sides
Daily Torygraph: US financial showdown with Russia is more dangerous than it looks, for both sides
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
NATO - SACEUR: Who are the Men behind the Masks?
It’s hard to fathom that groups of armed men in masks suddenly sprang forward from the population in eastern Ukraine and systematically began to occupy government facilities. It’s hard to fathom because it’s simply not true. What is happening in eastern Ukraine is a military operation that is well planned and organized and we assess that it is being carried out at the direction of Russia.
President Barack Obama, Chancellor Angela Merkel, Prime Minister David Cameron, President François Hollande, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen and many others have publicly stated their belief that Russian forces are behind the events in Ukraine. I would like to provide some observations from our analytical experts to help explain why I strongly agree with these world leaders.
In my blog last month I spoke about the importance of identifying the Russian troops in Crimea. Today, the Russian president has finally admitted that Russian troops were there after denying it repeatedly early on. Also today he claimed that the idea of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine was "rubbish.” I would ask that you keep this in mind as you consider your answer to the question "Who are the men behind the masks in eastern Ukraine, today?”
I would also urge you to research this topic on your own and read a few of these examples:
1. You Tube Shatters Russian Lies About Troops In Ukraine: Putin Denies Truth To Obama
2. Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea
3. Ukraine submits proof of Russian covert action
4. The Science of Unmasking Russian Forces in Ukraine
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Streetwise Professor: Ukraine Update: Charlie Brown, Lucy, the Organ Grinder and His Monkey
It’s hard to fathom that groups of armed men in masks suddenly sprang forward from the population in eastern Ukraine and systematically began to occupy government facilities. It’s hard to fathom because it’s simply not true. What is happening in eastern Ukraine is a military operation that is well planned and organized and we assess that it is being carried out at the direction of Russia.
President Barack Obama, Chancellor Angela Merkel, Prime Minister David Cameron, President François Hollande, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen and many others have publicly stated their belief that Russian forces are behind the events in Ukraine. I would like to provide some observations from our analytical experts to help explain why I strongly agree with these world leaders.
- The pro-Russian "activists” in eastern Ukraine exhibit tell-tale military training and equipment and work together in a way that is consistent with troops who are part of a long-standing unit, not spontaneously stood up from a local militia.
- The weapon handling discipline and professional behavior of these forces is consistent with a trained military force. Rifle muzzles are pointed down, fingers not on triggers, but rather laid across trigger mechanisms.
- Coordinated use of tear gas and stun grenades against targeted buildings indicates a level of training that exceeds a recently formed militia.
- Video of these forces at checkpoints shows they are attentive, on their feet, focused on their security tasks, and under control of an apparent leader. This contrasts with typical militia or mob checkpoints, where it’s common to see people sitting, smoking, and so forth.
- The way these forces target government buildings, hit them in coordinated strikes and quickly secure the surrounding area with roadblocks and barricades is similar to what we’ve seen in Crimea. Again, indicative of a professional military force, acting under direction and leadership, not a spontaneous militia.
- Finally, the weapons and equipment they carry are primarily Russian army issue. This is not the kind of equipment that civilians would be likely to be able to get their hands on in large numbers.
In my blog last month I spoke about the importance of identifying the Russian troops in Crimea. Today, the Russian president has finally admitted that Russian troops were there after denying it repeatedly early on. Also today he claimed that the idea of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine was "rubbish.” I would ask that you keep this in mind as you consider your answer to the question "Who are the men behind the masks in eastern Ukraine, today?”
I would also urge you to research this topic on your own and read a few of these examples:
1. You Tube Shatters Russian Lies About Troops In Ukraine: Putin Denies Truth To Obama
2. Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea
3. Ukraine submits proof of Russian covert action
4. The Science of Unmasking Russian Forces in Ukraine
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Streetwise Professor: Ukraine Update: Charlie Brown, Lucy, the Organ Grinder and His Monkey
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I think every one accepts their are Russian troops controlling things, they stand out like dogs balls. You have the layer of rabble, backed up by another layer of loose militia and in the background you can see the profesionals.
The pro-Russian "activists” in eastern Ukraine exhibit tell-tale military training and equipment and work together in a way that is consistent with troops who are part of a long-standing unit, not spontaneously stood up from a local militia.
The weapon handling discipline and professional behavior of these forces is consistent with a trained military force. Rifle muzzles are pointed down, fingers not on triggers, but rather laid across trigger mechanisms.
Coordinated use of tear gas and stun grenades against targeted buildings indicates a level of training that exceeds a recently formed militia.
Video of these forces at checkpoints shows they are attentive, on their feet, focused on their security tasks, and under control of an apparent leader. This contrasts with typical militia or mob checkpoints, where it’s common to see people sitting, smoking, and so forth.
The way these forces target government buildings, hit them in coordinated strikes and quickly secure the surrounding area with roadblocks and barricades is similar to what we’ve seen in Crimea. Again, indicative of a professional military force, acting under direction and leadership, not a spontaneous militia.
Finally, the weapons and equipment they carry are primarily Russian army issue. This is not the kind of equipment that civilians would be likely to be able to get their hands on in large numbers.
The weapon handling discipline and professional behavior of these forces is consistent with a trained military force. Rifle muzzles are pointed down, fingers not on triggers, but rather laid across trigger mechanisms.
Coordinated use of tear gas and stun grenades against targeted buildings indicates a level of training that exceeds a recently formed militia.
Video of these forces at checkpoints shows they are attentive, on their feet, focused on their security tasks, and under control of an apparent leader. This contrasts with typical militia or mob checkpoints, where it’s common to see people sitting, smoking, and so forth.
The way these forces target government buildings, hit them in coordinated strikes and quickly secure the surrounding area with roadblocks and barricades is similar to what we’ve seen in Crimea. Again, indicative of a professional military force, acting under direction and leadership, not a spontaneous militia.
Finally, the weapons and equipment they carry are primarily Russian army issue. This is not the kind of equipment that civilians would be likely to be able to get their hands on in large numbers.
I am not claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but I take a very jaundiced view of the claims made by UK and US politicians about Russian soldiers in Ukraine as they have been caught lying too often before (Kuwaiti incubator babies, Jessica Lynch comedy stories, MI6 dodgy dossier).
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I'm surprised an agreement has been hacked out, implementing it is another thing, however why do I not see the Crimea mentioned in any of the press reports, one would almost say Putin is playing them, having riled up the East to bring it to the table as a bargaining chip to deflect the emphasis away from Crimea.
Not a very conclusive or persuasive argument since every Ukraine male has to do compulsory military service (either one year as a soldier or two years as an officer).
I am not claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but I take a very jaundiced view of the claims made by UK and US politicians about Russian soldiers in Ukraine as they have been caught lying too often before (Kuwaiti incubator babies, Jessica Lynch comedy stories, MI6 dodgy dossier).
I am not claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but I take a very jaundiced view of the claims made by UK and US politicians about Russian soldiers in Ukraine as they have been caught lying too often before (Kuwaiti incubator babies, Jessica Lynch comedy stories, MI6 dodgy dossier).
Armed Russian Soldiers in Slovyans?k | Ukraine Investigation
The 'claim' that the soldiers are Russian doesn't come from UK/US politicians, it comes from Ukrainians. The mayor of Slovyans’k described how they (100men) arrived from outside the town and were not welcomed bu most of the townsfolk.
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I still can't get over Putin saying he has the right to invade another country.. He is beginning to sound like Hitler
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The west also assumes it has the right to invade or attack other nations, for example Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. They also wanted to attack Syria but luckily thanks to President Putin that never happened. To grab Ukraine the west carried out a coup in Ukraine, Russia is simply responding to this and supporting those who do not back that coup. I would imagine if we go back and look carefully one will find that the uprisings in Libya and Syria were also western created events just to create the false need for military attacks by the west.
Not a very conclusive or persuasive argument since every Ukraine male has to do compulsory military service (either one year as a soldier or two years as an officer).
I am not claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but I take a very jaundiced view of the claims made by UK and US politicians about Russian soldiers in Ukraine as they have been caught lying too often (Kuwaiti incubator babies, Jessica Lynch comedy stories, MI6 dodgy dossier).
I am not claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but I take a very jaundiced view of the claims made by UK and US politicians about Russian soldiers in Ukraine as they have been caught lying too often (Kuwaiti incubator babies, Jessica Lynch comedy stories, MI6 dodgy dossier).
The italics highlighted stuff is a non sequitur. You have chosen as your presumption the reverse halo effect, which adds up to serious confirmation bias. Your argument/refutation fails.
Another point: one year conscripts may or may not be able to retain enough professionalism to informally handle these infiltration situations without a well established command structure and task training. Most of us who have served in uniform will bet the under on folks with one year of compulsory service being disciplined to that degree.
Professionals who train for such tasks have both the task training and command structure to retain their discipline.
The streetwise professor's analysis is far more complete and supported than your throwaway.
Not even a nice try, though I'll agree with you that it's most likely a mix of Russians and some locals on the pro Russian social demographic.
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The west also assumes it has the right to invade or attack other nations, for example Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. They also wanted to attack Syria but luckily thanks to President Putin that never happened. To grab Ukraine the west carried out a coup in Ukraine, Russia is simply responding to this and supporting those who do not back that coup. I would imagine if we go back and look carefully one will find that the uprisings in Libya and Syria were also western created events just to create the false need for military attacks by the west.
The 'claim' that the soldiers are Russian doesn't come from UK/US politicians, it comes from Ukrainians.
The so-called Ukrainian government has never been elected and so cannot pretend to speak for the Ukrainian people. It is clear that many eastern Ukrainians want nothing to do with the Kiev regime because they are not represented.
We have only ourselves to blame for this mess because we did nothing to support the former democratically elected President of Ukraine, and stood by while he was toppled. It is inevitable now that Ukraine will split.
Who is "we" and why do you assign that blame?
Only if pressure continues to be applied externally ... which at the moment, seems to be coming from their large eastern neighbor.
It is inevitable now that Ukraine will split.
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What Putin's done is wrong, and perhaps the west ought to intervene.
Sadly, with our last two misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, whatever moral authority we had has gone.
This is the true cost of Iraq.
Once you start wars under specious circumstances, it becomes hard to act even when action is justified.
Sadly, with our last two misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, whatever moral authority we had has gone.
This is the true cost of Iraq.
Once you start wars under specious circumstances, it becomes hard to act even when action is justified.
Lonewolf -
Pro-Russian groups to stay put in east Ukraine until referendum takes place | World news | The Guardian
We (i.e. US and Europe) should have vociferously condemned the Maiden movement instead of tacitly supporting it in the forlorn hope that a pro-west Ukraine would emerge.
Even now, where is the condemnation of Tymoshenko's outrageously provocative statements that she is refusing to countenance a regional referendum because it is unconstitutional (what constitution?) and will instead form a "resistance movement" to "defend ourselves"? Defend "ourselves" against what? She has never been elected by anybody and has no mandate to speak for the Ukraine.
Pro-Russian groups to stay put in east Ukraine until referendum takes place | World news | The Guardian
International attempts to de-escalate tensions in Ukraine were floundering on Friday as separatist groups in the east declared that they had no intention of leaving occupied buildings and accused Kiev of violating an agreement reached in Geneva on Thursday.
Russia, Ukraine, the EU and the United States struck a diplomatic deal in the Swiss city, following seven hours of talks, that was supposed to see illegal groups withdraw from municipal buildings and hand in their weapons.
Twenty-four hours later there were no signs that any of the anti-government groups were preparing to budge. Instead, protest leaders said they would continue their occupations until their demands were met. A rebel militia seized an administration building in Seversk, a small town outside the regional capital Donetsk.
At a press conference on FridayDenis Pushilin, the self-styled leader of the "Donetsk People's Republic", said his supporters would stay put until a referendum on the region's future status was held. He dismissed the current pro-western government in Kiev as illegitimate. "We will continue our activity," he declared.
Pushilin said no meaningful de-escalation was possible while Ukraine's interim prime minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and president Olexsandr Turchynov were still in their jobs. "We understand that everyone has to leave buildings or nobody does. Yatsenyuk and Turchynov should vacate theirs first," he said.
Moscow's envoy to the European Union reitereated this position, telling Russian state television that authorities in Kiev had "incorrectly interpreted" the Geneva deal. He said Ukraine's new leadership mistakenly believed that the deal "only applies to the eastern and southern provinces" when it also applied to "the ongoing occupation of Maidan [Independence Square in Kiev]".
Pro-Russian separatists grabbed a string of public buildings across eastern Ukraine a week ago. The militia units – some of them similar to the armed "little green men" who appeared in Crimea in February – have occupied them ever since. Nato says the separatists include professionally trained undercover Russian soldiers. Moscow denies this.
In Kiev, Ukraine's acting foreign minister Andriy Deshchytsia said the next few days would demonstrate whether Russia actually intended to implement the Geneva deal, signed by Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov. "I don't know Russia's intentions. But minister Lavrov did promise that they want to de-escalate. So we will see in a few days if it was [a] sincere promise and sincere participation."
The separatists, however, seem in little mood to give ground. Pushilin said Kiev had already violated the Geneva accord by refusing to pull its military units from the east of Ukraine. "They have not withdrawn their forces out from Slavyansk," he said. Beleaguered Ukrainian troops ccupy a rustic aerodrome close to Slavyansk, north of Donetsk, and neighbouring Kramatorsk. On Wednesday they suffered the ultimate humiliation when armed separatists, seemingly led by Russian officers, seized six armoured vehicles from them and drove off.
Pushilin delivered his anti-Kiev message to Russian state television, which had turned up to interview him. He was speaking from the 11th-floor of Donetsk's regional administration building, now a sprawling camp of anti-government and anti-western protest.
Pushilin describes himself as the "people's governor". He appeared to be reading from a carefully-drafted script. Several media advisers sat nearby. He told Russian television that Kiev was denying the local population access to insulin and withholding desperately needed medical supplies. He asked ordinary Russians to donate money to a numbered account with Russia's Sberbank to help the cause.
A local businessman, Pushilin and other deputies from the "Donetsk People's Republic" are entirely self-appointed. Their key demand is a referendum on federalisation by 11 May, two weeks before presidential elections. It is unclear what questions might be included. Their goal is to create an autonomous eastern republic separate from Kiev. After that most want the new republic to join the Russian Federation, in imitation of Crimea annexed by Moscow last month.
Kiev says Pushilin and other separatist leaders are under the control of Russia's spy agencies.
Visiting Donetsk yesterday, Ukraine's former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko denounced Russian interference and said that Russia's special forces had been highly active across the east of the country. She said she was in Donetsk to negotiate with pro-Russian protesters, conceding that Ukrainian and Russian speakers now had to make "compromises" if a solution to the crisis was to be found. She said this compromise could be achieved if Russia withdrew its agents from eastern Ukraine but warned of violence if it did not.
Tymoshenko – whose pro-western party dominates the new government – said that she was creating a "resistance movement" militia to fight for Ukraine's territorial integrity. This would be an armed force made up of volunteers with military experience, she said: "We will do everything to restore harmony and peace in our country and to stop aggression. But if it doesn't happen we are ready to defend ourselves … with weapons in hand."
Tymoshenko ruled out holding a regional referendum, saying that it didn't match constitutional requirements, and adding that Kiev "can't recognise it". "We don't want anyone to demand that Ukrainians vote in a referendum under the barrels of Russian weapons," she said.
Russia, Ukraine, the EU and the United States struck a diplomatic deal in the Swiss city, following seven hours of talks, that was supposed to see illegal groups withdraw from municipal buildings and hand in their weapons.
Twenty-four hours later there were no signs that any of the anti-government groups were preparing to budge. Instead, protest leaders said they would continue their occupations until their demands were met. A rebel militia seized an administration building in Seversk, a small town outside the regional capital Donetsk.
At a press conference on FridayDenis Pushilin, the self-styled leader of the "Donetsk People's Republic", said his supporters would stay put until a referendum on the region's future status was held. He dismissed the current pro-western government in Kiev as illegitimate. "We will continue our activity," he declared.
Pushilin said no meaningful de-escalation was possible while Ukraine's interim prime minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and president Olexsandr Turchynov were still in their jobs. "We understand that everyone has to leave buildings or nobody does. Yatsenyuk and Turchynov should vacate theirs first," he said.
Moscow's envoy to the European Union reitereated this position, telling Russian state television that authorities in Kiev had "incorrectly interpreted" the Geneva deal. He said Ukraine's new leadership mistakenly believed that the deal "only applies to the eastern and southern provinces" when it also applied to "the ongoing occupation of Maidan [Independence Square in Kiev]".
Pro-Russian separatists grabbed a string of public buildings across eastern Ukraine a week ago. The militia units – some of them similar to the armed "little green men" who appeared in Crimea in February – have occupied them ever since. Nato says the separatists include professionally trained undercover Russian soldiers. Moscow denies this.
In Kiev, Ukraine's acting foreign minister Andriy Deshchytsia said the next few days would demonstrate whether Russia actually intended to implement the Geneva deal, signed by Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov. "I don't know Russia's intentions. But minister Lavrov did promise that they want to de-escalate. So we will see in a few days if it was [a] sincere promise and sincere participation."
The separatists, however, seem in little mood to give ground. Pushilin said Kiev had already violated the Geneva accord by refusing to pull its military units from the east of Ukraine. "They have not withdrawn their forces out from Slavyansk," he said. Beleaguered Ukrainian troops ccupy a rustic aerodrome close to Slavyansk, north of Donetsk, and neighbouring Kramatorsk. On Wednesday they suffered the ultimate humiliation when armed separatists, seemingly led by Russian officers, seized six armoured vehicles from them and drove off.
Pushilin delivered his anti-Kiev message to Russian state television, which had turned up to interview him. He was speaking from the 11th-floor of Donetsk's regional administration building, now a sprawling camp of anti-government and anti-western protest.
Pushilin describes himself as the "people's governor". He appeared to be reading from a carefully-drafted script. Several media advisers sat nearby. He told Russian television that Kiev was denying the local population access to insulin and withholding desperately needed medical supplies. He asked ordinary Russians to donate money to a numbered account with Russia's Sberbank to help the cause.
A local businessman, Pushilin and other deputies from the "Donetsk People's Republic" are entirely self-appointed. Their key demand is a referendum on federalisation by 11 May, two weeks before presidential elections. It is unclear what questions might be included. Their goal is to create an autonomous eastern republic separate from Kiev. After that most want the new republic to join the Russian Federation, in imitation of Crimea annexed by Moscow last month.
Kiev says Pushilin and other separatist leaders are under the control of Russia's spy agencies.
Visiting Donetsk yesterday, Ukraine's former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko denounced Russian interference and said that Russia's special forces had been highly active across the east of the country. She said she was in Donetsk to negotiate with pro-Russian protesters, conceding that Ukrainian and Russian speakers now had to make "compromises" if a solution to the crisis was to be found. She said this compromise could be achieved if Russia withdrew its agents from eastern Ukraine but warned of violence if it did not.
Tymoshenko – whose pro-western party dominates the new government – said that she was creating a "resistance movement" militia to fight for Ukraine's territorial integrity. This would be an armed force made up of volunteers with military experience, she said: "We will do everything to restore harmony and peace in our country and to stop aggression. But if it doesn't happen we are ready to defend ourselves … with weapons in hand."
Tymoshenko ruled out holding a regional referendum, saying that it didn't match constitutional requirements, and adding that Kiev "can't recognise it". "We don't want anyone to demand that Ukrainians vote in a referendum under the barrels of Russian weapons," she said.
Even now, where is the condemnation of Tymoshenko's outrageously provocative statements that she is refusing to countenance a regional referendum because it is unconstitutional (what constitution?) and will instead form a "resistance movement" to "defend ourselves"? Defend "ourselves" against what? She has never been elected by anybody and has no mandate to speak for the Ukraine.
Last edited by Trim Stab; 18th Apr 2014 at 19:27.
Trim Stab:
I appreciate your skepticism on the virtue of the "West's" approach to Ukraine's various internal political struggles, and the usual problem of "choosing sides" as regards someone else's political struggles. What little I know of Ukraine politics suggests to me a fairly corrupt political environment, with dirty hands aplenty regardless of which party holds one's affiliation.
But hold on, my friend.
Isn't she a former prime minister? Doesn't that require being elected? 
She tried to run for president and lost, too bad for her. She also got tossed into jail, which is a fine place for any politician. 
Any number of blowhards in my own country talk about defending America, or whatever, and she is a leading member of a political group in the Ukraine. She has every right to sound off about such things, and we consumers of political noise will add such grains, pinches, or buckets full of salt as needed to said utterances.
Sounding off is what political people do. Is she blowing a lot of hot air? Sure, at least in part if not in total, since she's a political sort. (And a rich one to boot).
I appreciate your skepticism on the virtue of the "West's" approach to Ukraine's various internal political struggles, and the usual problem of "choosing sides" as regards someone else's political struggles. What little I know of Ukraine politics suggests to me a fairly corrupt political environment, with dirty hands aplenty regardless of which party holds one's affiliation.
But hold on, my friend.
She has never been elected by anybody and has no mandate to speak for the Ukraine.
Yulia Tymoshenko entered politics in 1996, when she was elected to the Verkhovna Rada (the Ukrainian parliament) in constituency #229, Bobrynets, Kirovohrad Oblast, winning a record 92.3% of the vote.
Any number of blowhards in my own country talk about defending America, or whatever, and she is a leading member of a political group in the Ukraine. She has every right to sound off about such things, and we consumers of political noise will add such grains, pinches, or buckets full of salt as needed to said utterances.
Sounding off is what political people do. Is she blowing a lot of hot air? Sure, at least in part if not in total, since she's a political sort.
(And a rich one to boot).
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Not a very conclusive or persuasive argument since every Ukraine male has to do compulsory military service (either one year as a soldier or two years as an officer).
I am not claiming that there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but I take a very jaundiced view of the claims made by UK and US politicians about Russian soldiers in Ukraine as they have been caught lying too often before
The west also assumes it has the right to invade or attack other nations, for example Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. They also wanted to attack Syria but luckily thanks to President Putin that never happened.
America definaitly knows it has no right to invade countrys, thats why it goes to extreme length to find legal grounds, when it sees the need.
I would imagine if we go back and look carefully one will find that the uprisings in Libya and Syria were also western created events just to create the false need for military attacks by the west.
We have only ourselves to blame for this mess because we did nothing to support the former democratically elected President of Ukraine, and stood by while he was toppled.
It is inevitable now that Ukraine will split.
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rh200, the Ukrainian parliament did not have the right to remove the President the way they did. They did not follow proper procedures and not enough MPs were actually present to remove him.
While some western countries may disobey Washington on occasion when it comes down to it they obey their masters. Many of our western nations are simply puppet states.
The west might try to find legal means but will simply do it without if they need to. It would not be so bad if the interventions were not such a disaster such as Iraq and Libya. We should have simply left Saddam and Gaddafi in power. Those nations would have been far more stable
Luckily we now have the rise of Russia, China and India. Hopefully they can bring balance to the world. They are getting sick of what they term ''western arrogance'' as are many other nations especially in Asia and South America. The old order is over folks!
While some western countries may disobey Washington on occasion when it comes down to it they obey their masters. Many of our western nations are simply puppet states.
The west might try to find legal means but will simply do it without if they need to. It would not be so bad if the interventions were not such a disaster such as Iraq and Libya. We should have simply left Saddam and Gaddafi in power. Those nations would have been far more stable
Luckily we now have the rise of Russia, China and India. Hopefully they can bring balance to the world. They are getting sick of what they term ''western arrogance'' as are many other nations especially in Asia and South America. The old order is over folks!
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This isn't a straightforward issue- not like the soviet Prague spring or the US Bay of Pigs invasion. Take Yulia T for example- please-she must have an evil (or angelic twin). I read today somewhere that she was going to visit Donetsk today and talk and listen to the protesters and wanted to work together/peace& love&flowers/freedom etc etc and now she's creating her own army - I didn't read about that in the Geneva accord. She's an unindicted (sp?) co-conspirator in a US fraud/money laundering prosecution, reputedly has lots of $$ in multi accounts Exclusive: UK banks in row over Yulia Tymoshenko 'millions' - Crime - UK - The Independent ( I wish I could say the same!) was voted out of office in favour of Yanukovich, who she now accuses of being corrupt. This is just one of a panoply of questionable characters. We are told over and over about the Russian operatives in the East, but the head of EU intelligence (no nasty remarks please) Commodore Georgij Alafuzoff denies it EU:n tiedustelujohtaja: Venäjä ei ole asemoitunut sotilaallisesti Ukrainaan | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi or http://translate.google.ca/translate...26channel%3Dsb and from Kyevpost arrested protesters turn out to be locals Kharkiv officials: Detained protesters are residents of city and region .
Russian troops are massed menacingly on the border, but an NBC film team drove 800 miles and couldn't find them Tour of Ukraine-Russia Border Finds No Signs of Military Buildup - NBC News Most of the pictures I see of 'protesters' don't look like youths, but decrepit old people like me, albeit in camo. Maybe thats why they have some organizational ability.
Ukraine isn't some despotic wo**y country- it was for 20+ years a democracy. Issues are therefore far more complex and 'truth' very subjective. The US, Canada and EU encouraged the Maidan uprising, rather than preaching- 'suck it up and wait for the next election" like we all have to do in a democracy. Now we, or rather they, live with the aftermath.
Thus endeth the lesson..... (sorry about the print fonts, but I can't seem to change it)
Russian troops are massed menacingly on the border, but an NBC film team drove 800 miles and couldn't find them Tour of Ukraine-Russia Border Finds No Signs of Military Buildup - NBC News Most of the pictures I see of 'protesters' don't look like youths, but decrepit old people like me, albeit in camo. Maybe thats why they have some organizational ability.
Ukraine isn't some despotic wo**y country- it was for 20+ years a democracy. Issues are therefore far more complex and 'truth' very subjective. The US, Canada and EU encouraged the Maidan uprising, rather than preaching- 'suck it up and wait for the next election" like we all have to do in a democracy. Now we, or rather they, live with the aftermath.
Thus endeth the lesson..... (sorry about the print fonts, but I can't seem to change it)