1982 Task Force Question
Thread Starter
1982 Task Force Question
Hello all,
I am trying to put together the puzzle from the May 30th attack (Falklands / Malvinas 1982). That day, 2 Exocets and four A4cīs attacked the fleet with Exocet and bombs. Exeter shot down two Skyhawks.
For the experts in the forum, do you remember what chaff "D" was? Also, remember the EMCOM policy at the time? I mean, all radars were on at the time, or not?
For now, this is theoretical SAM coverage of the fleet, at 1730z, May 30th 1982. At the bottom of the image, the route of the attackers and the radar "paints" at them
Regards!
I am trying to put together the puzzle from the May 30th attack (Falklands / Malvinas 1982). That day, 2 Exocets and four A4cīs attacked the fleet with Exocet and bombs. Exeter shot down two Skyhawks.
For the experts in the forum, do you remember what chaff "D" was? Also, remember the EMCOM policy at the time? I mean, all radars were on at the time, or not?
For now, this is theoretical SAM coverage of the fleet, at 1730z, May 30th 1982. At the bottom of the image, the route of the attackers and the radar "paints" at them
Regards!
Suspicion breeds confidence
I will try to help. Chaff Delta is fired for distraction. Making a nice big false target, but it not effective at high speed as you want to stay in the pattern. THe scale of your map is a bit misleading Exeter was a about 25 miles south of the main task group and the T21 a further 10 south of her, so well within Sea Dart's envelope. EMCON state would depend on the perceived threat the time. The Etendards and the Exocet would have been detected by both ships passive systems which would give an approximate bearing of the threat. No point in staying EMCON silent once you been detected and fired at. Exeter behaved exactly as she should picking up the raid and taking out two.
I might be hepful to watch this documentary at 18:00 minutes in.
Shame you are so far away. My collection of book on the conflict are now available. Probably the finest collection anyone could want.. Im moving kindle which is easier on aging eyes.
I might be hepful to watch this documentary at 18:00 minutes in.
Shame you are so far away. My collection of book on the conflict are now available. Probably the finest collection anyone could want.. Im moving kindle which is easier on aging eyes.
Last edited by Navaleye; 23rd Feb 2014 at 13:47.
Is this about to lead in to that utterly ridiculous 'mystery' that somehow HMS INVINCIBLE was sunk on 30 May, and that HMS ILLUSTRIOUS was sent to replace her, while a new INVINCIBLE was built in record time and complete secrecy, and that in the 30 years since, not one person has admitted to what really happened?
No offence, but I fail to understand how anyone can still cling to the 'Invincible was sunk' myth after all these years?
No offence, but I fail to understand how anyone can still cling to the 'Invincible was sunk' myth after all these years?
Suspicion breeds confidence
In fairness to OP everyone knows that claim is utter nonsense. The question asked for more details which I hope my post and the vid shed some light on. The vid was made in 83 so memory was still fresh then.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jim, the author of the OP demands more credit than that. He is a respected historian and not a writer of fiction.
Fair enough PN - but I'm afraid I've seen a number of others on the net put out that there is some kind of conspiracy about the 30 May attacks. Happy to not suggest the OP is part of this, but I would suggest that there are plenty out there who still believe that there is a giant conspiracy and that they are searching for the 'truth' after all these years.
Suspicion breeds confidence
There is a book entitled "untold stories of of the Falklands Islands" which I have. It includes a first hand account written by late Captain Balfour in which he describes the engagement including the fact that they were down to seven Sea Dart before that engagement. Its available for pennies on the Kindle book store.
Hugo White went on to be C-in-C Fleet. I have no doubt that his account was nothing other than accurate as far as will ever be know. He did plug his ship with a 4.5 kill which was somewhat over optimistic as the grin and glint in his eye suggested. A good go there. As an aside Avenger was the subject of TWO Exocet attacks one of was a land based one which hurtled noisly over her flight deck on an NGS mission at about the week. Lucky ship.
Hugo White went on to be C-in-C Fleet. I have no doubt that his account was nothing other than accurate as far as will ever be know. He did plug his ship with a 4.5 kill which was somewhat over optimistic as the grin and glint in his eye suggested. A good go there. As an aside Avenger was the subject of TWO Exocet attacks one of was a land based one which hurtled noisly over her flight deck on an NGS mission at about the week. Lucky ship.
Last edited by Navaleye; 23rd Feb 2014 at 17:50.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: raf
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
s this about to lead in to that utterly ridiculous 'mystery' that somehow HMS INVINCIBLE was sunk on 30 May, and that HMS ILLUSTRIOUS was sent to replace her, while a new INVINCIBLE was built in record time and complete secrecy, and that in the 30 years since, not one person has admitted to what really happened?
No offence, but I fail to understand how anyone can still cling to the 'Invincible was sunk' myth after all these years?
No offence, but I fail to understand how anyone can still cling to the 'Invincible was sunk' myth after all these years?
Plus, you would have thought somebody would have noticed the ships KIA missing.
Knowing our industry, a new Invincible would have been 15 years late and Ģ1.2 billion over budget. And they probably would have accidentally put the ski ramp on back to front.
Although, never let the truth get in the way of a good story!
Suspicion breeds confidence
Lets not go there as it never happened as I can see from your post why It might. The aviators were airforce not trained in ship recognition which, I suspect lies of the heart of the matter,
Im much more interested in exploring what did actually happen.
Im much more interested in exploring what did actually happen.
Last edited by Navaleye; 23rd Feb 2014 at 20:53.
I can't believe that someone on here would bring up the Invincible balderdash.
I clearly remember the Sheffield survivors coming through Ascension and other survivors later on but certainly none from Invincible.
It didn't happen, end of story.
I clearly remember the Sheffield survivors coming through Ascension and other survivors later on but certainly none from Invincible.
It didn't happen, end of story.
Shame you are so far away. My collection of book on the conflict are now available. Probably the finest collection anyone could want.. Im moving kindle which is easier on aging eyes.
Guy a historian as someone has said and seems right to have collection with someone who knows its value.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Correct. That is not was the OP was asking details for. Hope you enjoyed the old documentary from 83. It captured the first hand recollections of those that were there and I think is something of an historic document regardless which side you fought on or what shade of blue your uniform was.
Suspicion breeds confidence
racedo,
Forum rules prevent me turning this site into an auction and I would not wish to do. I have purchased just about every book ever published on this subject. You can PM and we can take this off site. Thanks
Forum rules prevent me turning this site into an auction and I would not wish to do. I have purchased just about every book ever published on this subject. You can PM and we can take this off site. Thanks
Suspicion breeds confidence
1771 DELETE,
Did you meet the now famous and late Captain Bob McQueen? I have his book about his time there? It was entitled Island Base. I also seem to remember that the US contingent was only about 20 bodies when it all kicked off.
Did you meet the now famous and late Captain Bob McQueen? I have his book about his time there? It was entitled Island Base. I also seem to remember that the US contingent was only about 20 bodies when it all kicked off.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Navaleye
I have just been reading a couple of books on the events. I would like to read more detailed accounts.
Would it be possible for you to list the books you have, and the authors?
I would possibly like to buy them, but don't want to gazump anyone.
John
I have just been reading a couple of books on the events. I would like to read more detailed accounts.
Would it be possible for you to list the books you have, and the authors?
I would possibly like to buy them, but don't want to gazump anyone.
John
Suspicion breeds confidence
I'm conscious that my book library has hijacked someone else's thread which was never my intention. Perhaps the moderators can advise if there is a place here where I can publish my collection for those interested for genuine historic interest. Having accumulated all these over 30+ years, I would only want them to go to folks with a genuine interest. Many are long out of print and I would hate them to end up at the local bookshop. Finding a good home is all that matters. Desperately trying to stay within forum rules.... Be warned there's a lot .
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
5 Posts
Here is the story of the the events of 30 May 1982 from a Lynx pilot flying in the thick of it...
Hello everyone, just joined today at least in part because of this thread. If anyone can definitely answer this question it is me because I watched the whole thing. I was the Lynx Pilot from HMS Andromeda. There were three ships on picket duty out to the west of the main task force that day. Avenger to the south, Exeter in the middle and Andromeda to the north in a north south line. We were at 6000 feet ahead of everyone, listening for Etendard radar on our ESM. We picked it up and warned the fleet who went 'zippo 1' which meant get ready for Exocet attack. I turned the aircraft back towards the fleet in case there were any other aircraft around. One Exocet was fired although two Etendards were there (it was their last missile). Exeter was tracking the four A4s that carried on after the Exocet launch. We got in the way of the Sea Darts she fired and almost got shot down ourselves. However they took out two A4s. I saw it happen and expect that Avenger thought one was an Exocet. The other two A4s flew over Avenger and bombed her - they missed and got away. The Exocet locked onto Andromeda. I know this because the ops room had lock on detected from the Exocet seeker head on the ships UAA1 ESM equipment. Also Exeter watched it pass astern of them. Andromeda was the third ship there fitted with the Sea Wolf SAM which should have been capable of shooting it down. Unfortunately or more probably fortunately, it ran out of fuel and splashed before it got into engagement range. An interesting day all round!!!
Some facts:
One missile was fired and it fell into the sea.
Avenger did not shoot anything down.
The surviving A4s bombed HMS Avenger and missed.
HMS Invincible was miles away and was not damaged in any way.
I cannot be more definite than that but as an eye witness to the whole thing maybe it will nail this lie once and for all. As for the A4 pilots claiming to have flown down the deck of Invincible and bomb her - rubbish.
If anyone is interested I have a blog covering, amongst other things, my War experiences, taken from my log book. I did this last year to promote my books and if you look you will see adverts for them (sorry!)
I was involved in a lot of the anti - Exocet measures - my helicopter had a jammer fitted to seduce them and I trialled it at Aberporth against a live missile so we knew it worked.
I actually wrote my first novel - 'Sea Skimmer' about the Exocets because to this day I still don't know why the warheads never exploded - now the story behind this could be far more interesting than the Invincible conspiracy theory! As I couldn't find out why - I made it up - hence a novel.
If anyone is interested have a look at posts from last year starting in April on http://sowethereyet.********.co.uk/
Larryjc
Some facts:
One missile was fired and it fell into the sea.
Avenger did not shoot anything down.
The surviving A4s bombed HMS Avenger and missed.
HMS Invincible was miles away and was not damaged in any way.
I cannot be more definite than that but as an eye witness to the whole thing maybe it will nail this lie once and for all. As for the A4 pilots claiming to have flown down the deck of Invincible and bomb her - rubbish.
If anyone is interested I have a blog covering, amongst other things, my War experiences, taken from my log book. I did this last year to promote my books and if you look you will see adverts for them (sorry!)
I was involved in a lot of the anti - Exocet measures - my helicopter had a jammer fitted to seduce them and I trialled it at Aberporth against a live missile so we knew it worked.
I actually wrote my first novel - 'Sea Skimmer' about the Exocets because to this day I still don't know why the warheads never exploded - now the story behind this could be far more interesting than the Invincible conspiracy theory! As I couldn't find out why - I made it up - hence a novel.
If anyone is interested have a look at posts from last year starting in April on http://sowethereyet.********.co.uk/
Larryjc
Naveleye
No i did not have the pleasure of meeting him, but i might just look up his book if it is on Amazon.
It was a very sorry sight seeing the Sheffield survivors arrive, all they had as a pair of navy overalls each, needless to say, they did not have to buy any drinks in the bar that first night. That was when it all became apparent to those in Ascenscion that diplomacy had failed and many people were going to lose their lives.
No i did not have the pleasure of meeting him, but i might just look up his book if it is on Amazon.
It was a very sorry sight seeing the Sheffield survivors arrive, all they had as a pair of navy overalls each, needless to say, they did not have to buy any drinks in the bar that first night. That was when it all became apparent to those in Ascenscion that diplomacy had failed and many people were going to lose their lives.
acedo,
Forum rules prevent me turning this site into an auction and I would not wish to do. I have purchased just about every book ever published on this subject. You can PM and we can take this off site. Thanks
Forum rules prevent me turning this site into an auction and I would not wish to do. I have purchased just about every book ever published on this subject. You can PM and we can take this off site. Thanks
Assumming you donating to someone who would use.
Suspicion breeds confidence
As you were there. I've got one (somewhere).
EDIT: Bloody hell I just looked at what they want for it. It was done by a fringe publisher. If I can find it its yours.
Lots of comments about Bob McQueen here ob this site.
EDIT: Just found it. I will re read it tonight
Last edited by Navaleye; 24th Feb 2014 at 00:00.