War with Russia next?
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The usual is happening here, misinformation by both sides.
If you read the analysts tale on that it was diplomatic speak for couldn't agree on anything.
Then there's the usual people jumping sides for various reasons, loyalty to, country, ethnicity, money etc.
Then there the usual elected president bit which keeps getting thrown up, regardless of the fact that his parliament voted him out. A fact that may or may not be legal.
A few things, the guy was recording his own resignation speech, before he fled. The guy tried to board a plane to flee the country, his own customs wouldn't allow it. He didn't seek sanctuary in the Russian areas or hide under the Russian Admirals desk at the Black fleets head quarters. If he was so sure of his support and legitimacy why didn't he stay in the Ukraine.
If you read the analysts tale on that it was diplomatic speak for couldn't agree on anything.
Then there's the usual people jumping sides for various reasons, loyalty to, country, ethnicity, money etc.
The Russian military is there with the approval of the legitimate Ukrainian President.
A few things, the guy was recording his own resignation speech, before he fled. The guy tried to board a plane to flee the country, his own customs wouldn't allow it. He didn't seek sanctuary in the Russian areas or hide under the Russian Admirals desk at the Black fleets head quarters. If he was so sure of his support and legitimacy why didn't he stay in the Ukraine.
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rh200, the President stated there was a threat to the safety of himself and his family. The safest place to go was Russia.
He stated that personnel still loyal aided him in leaving the Ukraine.
If he is the legitimate President then this makes the Russian move totally ok.
Quite honestly the so called ''new government'' in Kiev look like a joke.
Its hard to know how free the MPs have been when taking votes etc. Voting the wrong way may get one in trouble with the protestors outside!!!
He stated that personnel still loyal aided him in leaving the Ukraine.
If he is the legitimate President then this makes the Russian move totally ok.
Quite honestly the so called ''new government'' in Kiev look like a joke.
Its hard to know how free the MPs have been when taking votes etc. Voting the wrong way may get one in trouble with the protestors outside!!!
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If he is the legitimate President then this makes the Russian move totally ok.
Could easily have sought sanctuary At the Russian areas.
Quite honestly the so called ''new government'' in Kiev look like a joke.
Now I'm sure if the agressor was some two bit tin pot force that had no hope of inflicting any serious harm the US would be right in there.
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unfortunately last week they started action to remove Russian as an official language......... not wise IMHO
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If we did the same with Spanish.....we would never be able to communicate with our Day Labor, House Maids, and Gardeners or the majority of Californians.
Over a Country that is severely torn internally between adhering to Russia or Europe?
Seriously?
Yes this bears som clear signs of an Invasion.
And some economic measures would be in order (although they are even less likely than some Miltary Show Off since they effectively hurt ourselves as well) and are far more effective than any Show-Off of Military Force without any intent of using it, just to appease some in the public.
That is pure feel good politics without any effect. Or WW3. Anything in between would be pure luck.
Freezing of international Assets/Equity, locking out from international banking system, boycot of Oil and Gas deliveries and similar measures would be the most painful reaction for Putin where he can't even score Macho Points by countering with Military Show Off himself.
Going to WW3 is a plain stupid idea if we are not even prepared to take very effective measures that would only cost us some Money.
If we are not even prepared to take that rather safe (just expensive) step then we should simply keep out altogether.
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Quote:
unfortunately last week they started action to remove Russian as an official language......... not wise IMHO
Good on them, can we do the same to the Welsh?
unfortunately last week they started action to remove Russian as an official language......... not wise IMHO
Good on them, can we do the same to the Welsh?
melmothtw
As a Welshman, I find that offensive Nutloose.
As a Welshman, I find that offensive Nutloose.
Putin and Russia are talking bollocks about dumping the US Dollar!
So Russia is going to abandon the dollar as a reserve currency? Good luck with that one ? Telegraph Blogs
So Russia is going to abandon the dollar as a reserve currency? Good luck with that one ? Telegraph Blogs
Surely there are multiple non- military options open to the West.
A bit of reading online seems to indicate that the much vaunted turn off the gas threat is a little overstated... from what I can see, there is at least 5 months supply stockpiled already.
Freeze Russian offshore assets, or confiscate them.
Including Putin's Dachas in London?!
Many avenues for sanctions.
Travel restrictions.
Kick `em out of the G8.
Many are ugly, and not without economic cost to us, but would exert pressure and are no doubt infinitely favourable to standing nose to nose, armed.
And more escalatory - if they are prepared to tear up international agreements on non-aggression, then there's the Montreaux Treaty... the non-observance of which would make it a little difficult for them to get into the Med.
A bit of reading online seems to indicate that the much vaunted turn off the gas threat is a little overstated... from what I can see, there is at least 5 months supply stockpiled already.
Freeze Russian offshore assets, or confiscate them.
Including Putin's Dachas in London?!
Many avenues for sanctions.
Travel restrictions.
Kick `em out of the G8.
Many are ugly, and not without economic cost to us, but would exert pressure and are no doubt infinitely favourable to standing nose to nose, armed.
And more escalatory - if they are prepared to tear up international agreements on non-aggression, then there's the Montreaux Treaty... the non-observance of which would make it a little difficult for them to get into the Med.
Last edited by tartare; 5th Mar 2014 at 01:07. Reason: Events moving quickly.
The problem with any sanctions against Russia is that they will hurt us in the EU as much as they will hurt Russia.
The Americans are the only ones arguing for sanctions because they do not export much to Russia, so their economy will not be affected much.
This whole dispute is not worth getting worked up about. There are far more important issues to sort out. Netanyahu must be very pleased at the moment, because it has diverted all the pressure on him to sign a peace accord with Palestine.
The Americans are the only ones arguing for sanctions because they do not export much to Russia, so their economy will not be affected much.
This whole dispute is not worth getting worked up about. There are far more important issues to sort out. Netanyahu must be very pleased at the moment, because it has diverted all the pressure on him to sign a peace accord with Palestine.
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Netanyahu must be very pleased at the moment, because it has diverted all the pressure on him to sign a peace accord with Palestine.
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Kiev snipers not hired by Yanukovich - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape
http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
Most interesting
http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
Most interesting
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Listen to the tape!
Its also interesting to hear the Estonian Minister refer to some journalists with him seeing an MP being beaten up outside the parliament! Likely to ensure they are voting the 'right' way!
Its also interesting to hear the Estonian Minister refer to some journalists with him seeing an MP being beaten up outside the parliament! Likely to ensure they are voting the 'right' way!
Last edited by Ronald Reagan; 5th Mar 2014 at 13:49. Reason: To add more
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Hey! sanctions???
Collapse of the housing market in London just before the election, public schools berifit of customers, and Russia is one of the few countries we have a positive trade surplus with........
Collapse of the housing market in London just before the election, public schools berifit of customers, and Russia is one of the few countries we have a positive trade surplus with........
On the subject of the tape, it was interesting to hear on Channel 4 news last night that the doctor at the centre of the claims that it was the demonstrators who hired the snipers stated that she never made any such comments.
So the Estonia minister and Ashton were discussiing an allegation that was never made in the first place.
So the Estonia minister and Ashton were discussiing an allegation that was never made in the first place.
The allegation was made, it's just that the supposed source for the information underpinning it has come out and said that the allegation is unfounded because the comments attributed to her are false.
Maskirovka, anyone...?
Maskirovka, anyone...?
