MiG-21 - still unpleasant surprise at Cope India exercise
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MiG-21 - still unpleasant surprise at Cope India exercise
Draft copy of the exercise Cope India report says:
While the superb performances of IAF Sukhoi-30s were somewhat anticipated, the performance of MiG-21Bison came as a major “unpleasant surprise” to the USAF officials. It also validates the claim of the Russian officials that they are capable of successfully converting “second generation” late-model MiG-21bis fighters to “fourth generation combat platforms”. Inherently the significant positive attributes enjoyed by MiG-21s were their dog fighting ability in WVR (Within Visual Range) combat. Even the earlier models had a low corner velocity of 556 kilometers per hour and at Mach 0.5 had an instantaneous turn rate of 11.1 degrees per second. The MiG-21Bison with more powerful R-25 engines not only considerably bettered this performance but it may also be credited with “jackrabbit” acceleration, a very critical attribute in WVR combat.
Something in-line to:
Among many fourth generations attributes added to the IAF MiG-21Bison design, the incorporation of HMS (Helmet Mounted Sight) and high-off-boresight R-73RDM2 NBVR/WVR (Near Beyond Visual Range/Within Visual Range) AAMs (Air-to-Air Missiles) have turned it into a “Great Equalizer” in the WVR combat scenario. Conceptually a small number of MiG-21Bisons maintaining “radar silence” can be guided towards their aerial target by a couple of Sukhoi-30s by secure data links in accordance with MFFC (Mixed Fighter Force Concept). Upon entering into an WVR combat envelope the MiG-21Bisons armed with HMS and deadly NBVR/WVR missiles had the capability of destroying even fifth-generation fighters alike F/A-22 Raptor as assessed by high-profile Fighter Analyst Ben Lambeth of RAND Corporation. According to Lambeth “in visual combat everybody dies at the same rate.” F/A-22 also has to slow down if forced into a WVR combat scenario and loses the advantage of its super-cruise attributes. The situation further complicates if the IAF Sukhoi-30s have acquired the capability of providing target illumination for RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) BVR missiles being launched from IAF MiG-21Bisons at extended ranges.
While the superb performances of IAF Sukhoi-30s were somewhat anticipated, the performance of MiG-21Bison came as a major “unpleasant surprise” to the USAF officials. It also validates the claim of the Russian officials that they are capable of successfully converting “second generation” late-model MiG-21bis fighters to “fourth generation combat platforms”. Inherently the significant positive attributes enjoyed by MiG-21s were their dog fighting ability in WVR (Within Visual Range) combat. Even the earlier models had a low corner velocity of 556 kilometers per hour and at Mach 0.5 had an instantaneous turn rate of 11.1 degrees per second. The MiG-21Bison with more powerful R-25 engines not only considerably bettered this performance but it may also be credited with “jackrabbit” acceleration, a very critical attribute in WVR combat.
Something in-line to:
Among many fourth generations attributes added to the IAF MiG-21Bison design, the incorporation of HMS (Helmet Mounted Sight) and high-off-boresight R-73RDM2 NBVR/WVR (Near Beyond Visual Range/Within Visual Range) AAMs (Air-to-Air Missiles) have turned it into a “Great Equalizer” in the WVR combat scenario. Conceptually a small number of MiG-21Bisons maintaining “radar silence” can be guided towards their aerial target by a couple of Sukhoi-30s by secure data links in accordance with MFFC (Mixed Fighter Force Concept). Upon entering into an WVR combat envelope the MiG-21Bisons armed with HMS and deadly NBVR/WVR missiles had the capability of destroying even fifth-generation fighters alike F/A-22 Raptor as assessed by high-profile Fighter Analyst Ben Lambeth of RAND Corporation. According to Lambeth “in visual combat everybody dies at the same rate.” F/A-22 also has to slow down if forced into a WVR combat scenario and loses the advantage of its super-cruise attributes. The situation further complicates if the IAF Sukhoi-30s have acquired the capability of providing target illumination for RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) BVR missiles being launched from IAF MiG-21Bisons at extended ranges.
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More likely the migs will get swotted by aim-120s at long range before the merge. If not the F-22 can just blow through the engagement using their speed and turn around for another bvr shot. Five minutes of this and the migs will be bingo fuel anyway and no amount of new avionics will change the terribly small fuel load. It's a point defence interceptor only.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I was an AD controller for 25 years and practiced MFF on many occasions. I can state factually that, apart from pre-planned engagements, it never worked effectively. The logistics involved in successfully scrambling and assembling the package in the correct location to obtain the correct tactical position on an opposing force package were so involved they weren't worth the candle.
Many more kills and success to place the lightweight fighters on their own VISCAP or under airfield control for point defence to engage the bombers that got through than try and get them mixed up with the enemy fighter sweep.
Many more kills and success to place the lightweight fighters on their own VISCAP or under airfield control for point defence to engage the bombers that got through than try and get them mixed up with the enemy fighter sweep.
ORAC
^^^
^^^
Well put, old bean. The only other use for MFF was to provide extra targets on the enemy aircraft's RADAR scope! Occasionally, the Hawks would get in unseen (probably just like these MiG21s would occasionally) and when they did they were like a fox in chicken coup.
LJ
^^^
^^^Well put, old bean. The only other use for MFF was to provide extra targets on the enemy aircraft's RADAR scope! Occasionally, the Hawks would get in unseen (probably just like these MiG21s would occasionally) and when they did they were like a fox in chicken coup.
LJ
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In 1989 (IIRC), while I was based at Abingdon the Czech Air Force, following the disintegration of the USSR, donated a Mig 21 to the RAF which was to be sold for the benefit of the RAF Ben Fund.
The aircraft was to be flown to Abingdon and I was to meet the aircraft and supervise making it safe before putting it into the hangar.
I can confirm previous posts about fuel because the Mig had to land and re-fuel at Manston. Gawd knows whether it had had any AAR before that.
The Czech AF took advantage of the occasion to give some of its folk a bit of a jolly and they had sent an Illyushin transport with about a dozen officers, including a full Colonel, to present the aircraft to us. There was also a number of non-commissioned troops on board, including the most sexy looking Warrant Officer (female of course) I’ve ever met.
We gave the officers a formal dinner that evening but in the afternoon the whole Czech team asked if they could go shopping in Oxford.
I arranged a RAF bus and we went off to Marks and Sparks; they mooched around the store and then asked me if there were any less expensive stores.
We went to Woolworths. They mostly bought a few plastic toys for their kids and some chocolate bars – bless ‘em.
The Mig was bought by that aged Aussie collector (I think his name was Glass but Anno Domini and Famous Grouse may be affecting my memory). However, however wizened and wrinkled the guy was he had the most attractive nurse in constant attendance (echoes of Catch 22?)
Rgds SOS
The aircraft was to be flown to Abingdon and I was to meet the aircraft and supervise making it safe before putting it into the hangar.
I can confirm previous posts about fuel because the Mig had to land and re-fuel at Manston. Gawd knows whether it had had any AAR before that.
The Czech AF took advantage of the occasion to give some of its folk a bit of a jolly and they had sent an Illyushin transport with about a dozen officers, including a full Colonel, to present the aircraft to us. There was also a number of non-commissioned troops on board, including the most sexy looking Warrant Officer (female of course) I’ve ever met.
We gave the officers a formal dinner that evening but in the afternoon the whole Czech team asked if they could go shopping in Oxford.
I arranged a RAF bus and we went off to Marks and Sparks; they mooched around the store and then asked me if there were any less expensive stores.
We went to Woolworths. They mostly bought a few plastic toys for their kids and some chocolate bars – bless ‘em.
The Mig was bought by that aged Aussie collector (I think his name was Glass but Anno Domini and Famous Grouse may be affecting my memory). However, however wizened and wrinkled the guy was he had the most attractive nurse in constant attendance (echoes of Catch 22?)
Rgds SOS
