SQUIRREL CRASH CHETWYND 20 APR
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SQUIRREL CRASH CHETWYND 20 APR
Good to hear the pilot got out of the Squirrel that had a bump a Chetwynd on Friday, ac is in 3 pieces so bodge tape and a lick of paint. Seriously though good to hear that the pilot walked away.
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Update
Solo student pilot from 660 Sqn, quickstops consolidation. As before very pleased he got out all in one piece. Cant help but wander if this is a fault of the crazy paralel Sqn system they operate there? the expertise is fading now and more of these incidents will happen I'm sure
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When I were a lad, 2 FTS Gazelles would write themselves off regularly - normally at Ternhill. In any training environment, students occasionally get things wrong, hence the massive insurance premiums.
Good news on chap/chapess.
Good news on chap/chapess.
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Flying training is risky, accidents can NEVER be stopped without stopping flying altogether. When I sent a Shawbury student on first solo, I knew that any aircraft malfunction could result in a 'flexed' aircraft. Quickstops are easy once you have a few hours under your belt, before then ...................
Avoid imitations
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When I were a lad, 2 FTS Gazelles would write themselves off regularly - normally at Ternhill. In any training environment, students occasionally get things wrong, hence the massive insurance premiums.
Avoid imitations
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Exactly my point about standards dropping! 
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I hope that a contributing factor is not the 'On the bus - off the bus' approach to disjointed training due to SDSR fallout. ....and even if it is not, the system needs to expect this sort of thing at a future date when students return from mahoosive holds away from aviation to then be thrown in at the deep end with no LSJ. I understand that a cellphone is now officially a survival aid! Get RCCs number into your phone Gents, its in the BINA. ...and someone invent a 'mayday app' that sends a message with L&L automatically.
D-Disjointed
S-
A-
T-Training
DSAT Compliance - Any takers on filling the gaps?
D-Disjointed
S-
A-
T-Training
DSAT Compliance - Any takers on filling the gaps?
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Luckily the Army has never suffered from endemic holding in the way of the RAF and RN. Indeed, the AAC is keeping SHY alive with thoughput at the moment, lets see how long that lasts!
Usually an army stude will be done and dusted with the Sq inside of 18 months max, then onto a CTT/CTR. Even an AH pilot can be produced in 2 1/2 years! ;-)
The Cell phone recovery option is front line as well, sub optimal in the extreme!
Ralph
Usually an army stude will be done and dusted with the Sq inside of 18 months max, then onto a CTT/CTR. Even an AH pilot can be produced in 2 1/2 years! ;-)
The Cell phone recovery option is front line as well, sub optimal in the extreme!
Ralph
Glad to hear the student walked away OK.
Of note I think this is the first accident during the quickstops sortie at Shawbury/Ternhill/Chetwynd (I include DHFS, 2FTS and CFS(H)), not counting the odd frange on Gazelles. Again, I also think this is the first rotary accident at Chetwynd since the Station Commander (or CFI) at Ternhill did an engine off in a Whirlwind and ended up in the 'little' bowl.
The latter led to the 'No EOLs at Chetwynd' order - emminently sensible with no crash cover on site - but I hope this doesn't lead to another flurry of orders, instructions, restrictions and further reduction in solo flying. Very soon the only thing a solo student at DHFS will be able to do is straight and level/transit at medium level.
PS:
- no water, no LSJ, but all sorties flown with LCJ (which includes PLB).
Of note I think this is the first accident during the quickstops sortie at Shawbury/Ternhill/Chetwynd (I include DHFS, 2FTS and CFS(H)), not counting the odd frange on Gazelles. Again, I also think this is the first rotary accident at Chetwynd since the Station Commander (or CFI) at Ternhill did an engine off in a Whirlwind and ended up in the 'little' bowl.
The latter led to the 'No EOLs at Chetwynd' order - emminently sensible with no crash cover on site - but I hope this doesn't lead to another flurry of orders, instructions, restrictions and further reduction in solo flying. Very soon the only thing a solo student at DHFS will be able to do is straight and level/transit at medium level.
PS:
thrown in at the deep end with no LSJ
Last edited by Shackman; 23rd Apr 2012 at 10:32. Reason: I knew as soon as I submitted that someone would remind me of another accident there! Thanks TTH
Gentleman Aviator
Not quite Shackman. There was a Gazelle crash at Chetwynd in about '79 or '80 - mutual CFS students - doing spot turns!
It was the "excessive rate of rotation around a point in front of the aircraft leading to excessive nose-down attitude" demo - which got TOO much nose down and crashed. Only Gaz and reputations damaged. Don't think that demo is done any more!
An amusing 'dit' on that one. Staish (C****y H******s) was on leave but staying in The Big House. Gave CFI (T*d B******s) strict instructions he was not to be disturbed for anything. First Staish hears is when his son - on IOT at Cranwell - 'phones home saying he's seen it on the news.
CFI: "Well, you did say don't disturb you for anything .........."
.... and the RAF half of the mutual crew (of course) got promoted and finished up working in the Palace .........
It was the "excessive rate of rotation around a point in front of the aircraft leading to excessive nose-down attitude" demo - which got TOO much nose down and crashed. Only Gaz and reputations damaged. Don't think that demo is done any more!
An amusing 'dit' on that one. Staish (C****y H******s) was on leave but staying in The Big House. Gave CFI (T*d B******s) strict instructions he was not to be disturbed for anything. First Staish hears is when his son - on IOT at Cranwell - 'phones home saying he's seen it on the news.
CFI: "Well, you did say don't disturb you for anything .........."
.... and the RAF half of the mutual crew (of course) got promoted and finished up working in the Palace .........
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GAZELLE CRASH CHETWYND 1980
I have just read this from TeeteringHead.
What you have written is only about 40% true. This was a demonstration during the QHI Course Gazelle conversion phase of an accelerated spot turn in the hover at Chetwynd. It was being flown by one of the CFS Instructors who was highly-experienced and a super-nice guy. The demonstration was perfectly legal at the time. In short, the fenestron tail rotor failed in a flat spot turn and the end result was a spiraling impact with the ground. The CFS Instructor was badly hurt and the student was unscathed. Both occupants were very lucky. Aerospatiale took this scenario back to testing and discovered that the breakaway should have been better trialed during initial testing.
How should I know all this? Because I was the student QHI in question and 4 hours into the conversion course. If you would like to verify all this then look up the RAF Accident Report and you will find it all there.
So before you start sending out misinformation, I would suggest that you consider the facts carefully before committing them to print. Also, you clearly have some underlying issue with authority because you never got there yourself. Either that or some mean compulsive disorder. Oh, and the CFI at Ternhill was also a good man. How you besmirch his character. .
What you have written is only about 40% true. This was a demonstration during the QHI Course Gazelle conversion phase of an accelerated spot turn in the hover at Chetwynd. It was being flown by one of the CFS Instructors who was highly-experienced and a super-nice guy. The demonstration was perfectly legal at the time. In short, the fenestron tail rotor failed in a flat spot turn and the end result was a spiraling impact with the ground. The CFS Instructor was badly hurt and the student was unscathed. Both occupants were very lucky. Aerospatiale took this scenario back to testing and discovered that the breakaway should have been better trialed during initial testing.
How should I know all this? Because I was the student QHI in question and 4 hours into the conversion course. If you would like to verify all this then look up the RAF Accident Report and you will find it all there.
So before you start sending out misinformation, I would suggest that you consider the facts carefully before committing them to print. Also, you clearly have some underlying issue with authority because you never got there yourself. Either that or some mean compulsive disorder. Oh, and the CFI at Ternhill was also a good man. How you besmirch his character. .
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Shack..
I'm sure we used to send a crash crew to Chet. Albeit only a LRover acrt, (70's).
On a drift, I was the last orderly Cpl at Ternhill, Dec '76, just me, a plod (still doing container checks in empty hangers and buildings) and a duty airman. About 0300 a civvy plod car pulls up hoots horn, duty airman opens main gate and plod dumps a crate of beer on the guardroom counter. Sorry your going they say, have drink. With that they head back to Market Drayton.
6 months later I'm at Kai Tak, from one laid back unit to another, Ah well someone has too.
PM
I'm sure we used to send a crash crew to Chet. Albeit only a LRover acrt, (70's).
On a drift, I was the last orderly Cpl at Ternhill, Dec '76, just me, a plod (still doing container checks in empty hangers and buildings) and a duty airman. About 0300 a civvy plod car pulls up hoots horn, duty airman opens main gate and plod dumps a crate of beer on the guardroom counter. Sorry your going they say, have drink. With that they head back to Market Drayton.
6 months later I'm at Kai Tak, from one laid back unit to another, Ah well someone has too.
PM
Gentleman Aviator
Timfin
My apologies for any offence caused. I was not at CFS at the time (although I was before and since) but heard the story (as I related it 2 years ago) separately from both the Staish's son and the CFI - the latter of whom I too respected. And some from yourself, which I "clearly" misremember.
Whilst not completely accurate, I think more than 40% for what it's worth - which probably isn't much at this range!
And I did "get there" and don't to my knowledge have any "mean compulsive disorder" that I know of - perhaps a different sense of humour from yourself these days - 'twas not always so ......
I have made it obvious that we do (did) know each other well - please see PM for a more personal apology.
Mea culpa
Teeters
My apologies for any offence caused. I was not at CFS at the time (although I was before and since) but heard the story (as I related it 2 years ago) separately from both the Staish's son and the CFI - the latter of whom I too respected. And some from yourself, which I "clearly" misremember.
Whilst not completely accurate, I think more than 40% for what it's worth - which probably isn't much at this range!
And I did "get there" and don't to my knowledge have any "mean compulsive disorder" that I know of - perhaps a different sense of humour from yourself these days - 'twas not always so ......
I have made it obvious that we do (did) know each other well - please see PM for a more personal apology.
Mea culpa
Teeters
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Teeteringhead
Apologies accepted for gracious response. Thank you.
I will say that too many comments are ill-educated on this crash, or any other I suspect (MH370).
The aftermath of the crash was actually quite entertaining. Monty Python would have had a field day. The CFS Instructor was picked up by Wessex and taken to hospital and (alas) his back injury prevented him from flying again. Lesson: Before impact brace!! The ambulance from Ternhill pitched up but couldn't take me to Shawbury because it was near the driver's off-duty time (Civilian). So I hitched a ride from a passing Gazelle by waving my arms in the middle of an empty Chetwynd beside a smoldering heap of metal.
ATC took the crashed Gazelle letter V down but it was read incorrectly by Ops so by the time I got back to CFS they were about to launch the Duxford Wing in search of a solo student on a low-level nav sortie in Wales. And the lack of comms you mentioned afterwards was an unfortunate episode. Anyhow, CFS had a great evening in the Station pub that night and, as a result, the Board of Inquiry had to start a day late.
The local press got the story completely wrong in every possible way. Which only goes to show that "One should be careful to believe one's own Press."
Blue skies and tailwinds All.
I will say that too many comments are ill-educated on this crash, or any other I suspect (MH370).
The aftermath of the crash was actually quite entertaining. Monty Python would have had a field day. The CFS Instructor was picked up by Wessex and taken to hospital and (alas) his back injury prevented him from flying again. Lesson: Before impact brace!! The ambulance from Ternhill pitched up but couldn't take me to Shawbury because it was near the driver's off-duty time (Civilian). So I hitched a ride from a passing Gazelle by waving my arms in the middle of an empty Chetwynd beside a smoldering heap of metal.
ATC took the crashed Gazelle letter V down but it was read incorrectly by Ops so by the time I got back to CFS they were about to launch the Duxford Wing in search of a solo student on a low-level nav sortie in Wales. And the lack of comms you mentioned afterwards was an unfortunate episode. Anyhow, CFS had a great evening in the Station pub that night and, as a result, the Board of Inquiry had to start a day late.
The local press got the story completely wrong in every possible way. Which only goes to show that "One should be careful to believe one's own Press."
Blue skies and tailwinds All.