Syria starts
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Truth be told, American influence in the Middle East peaked in 1956, when President Eisenhower ordered Britain, France, and Israel to withdraw from the Suez Canal Zone. However, having thus generated a reservoir of goodwill in the Arab Middle East, the White House later squandered it by halting U.S. aide for the Aswan Dam project as punishment for Nasser's Arab nationalist movement. American influence in the Middle East has been waning ever since, though it spiked briefly in 1991, when then-President George H.W. Bush leveraged the successful ousting of Iraqi troops from Kuwait into a three-day Arab-Israeli peace conference in Madrid.
Bob C
Bob C
tonker, there is a thread regarding the helicopter that went down in Syria on another sub forum here. Suggest you take the liveleak clip there for discussion.
Robert, I find your assessment mildly myopic and narrow.
US support to Israel in the 1973 war had a non trivial impact on Israeli success. (It also got the various Arab and OPEC fired up to get that boycott started, and I do remember the gas lines that resulted).
US influence in the Mid East INCREASED after the Camp David accords were signed, and the US began improving ties with Egypt (and sending them both arms and money). Likewise US arms sales to Saudi in the 80's, and connections with a number of the various emirates in the region.
The culmination of this effort was a very fertile ground for putting a local alliance together in 1991.
American decision to go into Iraq (2003) is a sort of influence in a major way, for good and ill. It made a signal difference in what went on in that region for a decade -- for good and ill.
Pulling out of Iraq was a first step toward taking a far less hands on approcah than in the previous 20 or so years. The fiddle farting around in Libya is small change.
Robert, I find your assessment mildly myopic and narrow.
US support to Israel in the 1973 war had a non trivial impact on Israeli success. (It also got the various Arab and OPEC fired up to get that boycott started, and I do remember the gas lines that resulted).
US influence in the Mid East INCREASED after the Camp David accords were signed, and the US began improving ties with Egypt (and sending them both arms and money). Likewise US arms sales to Saudi in the 80's, and connections with a number of the various emirates in the region.
The culmination of this effort was a very fertile ground for putting a local alliance together in 1991.
American decision to go into Iraq (2003) is a sort of influence in a major way, for good and ill. It made a signal difference in what went on in that region for a decade -- for good and ill.
Pulling out of Iraq was a first step toward taking a far less hands on approcah than in the previous 20 or so years. The fiddle farting around in Libya is small change.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 17th Oct 2012 at 18:13.
Hmm, so that's a second helicopter noted as going down over Syria in recent weeks.
Was it on fire on the way down (smoke trailing)?
From the brief film clip, that seems to be a version of helicopter OCF before the fireball erupts.
Was it on fire on the way down (smoke trailing)?
From the brief film clip, that seems to be a version of helicopter OCF before the fireball erupts.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 18th Oct 2012 at 12:25.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Rebels now have their hands on Sa-16/18 from the air bases they've taken.
Syrian Rebels Claim They Shot Down Fighter Jet With A Missile
Syrian rebels claim they shot down a MiG fighter jet not far from the Syrian-Turkish border on Wednesday. Along with the downing of a military helicopter on Tuesday, it would appear to be one of the first times rebels have successfully used a kind of weapon called a MANPAD, or portable, shoulder-fired, surface-to-air missile that can hit a plane in fight.
The development would mark a turning point in the rebels' bid to unseat Syrian President Bashar Assad.
Rebels say the Russian-made MiG fighter jet was shot down Wednesday morning near the town of Daarat Azzah, on the road north of the embattled city of Aleppo.
This video shows the plane bursting into flames in a clear blue sky then falling to the ground. The cameraman can be heard saying, "God is greatest."
Another video shows rebel fighters carry a wounded pilot from the wreckage. Abed Jabar Ogedi, head of the rebel military council in Aleppo, told NPR that a second pilot died.
The first pilot is
. One medic speaks with an Egyptian accent. Another voice in the background says, "We want him alive."
A later video shows the pilot
, as rebels announce they're giving him proper medical treatment.
Then another video was released, this one showing a bearded man in a heavy coat and sunglasses describing how he shot down the plane with a rocket that's resting on his shoulder. He calls it an "Igla," which is the Russian name for an SA-16 or an SA-18.
It's a kind of missile that was used to take out planes during earlier conflicts in Bosnia, Rwanda and Iraq.
The fighter says the rebels seized the weapon when they overtook a Syrian army base earlier this month. Rebels have seized similar weapons before but this is the first time they appear to have used this particular system successfully.
Military analysts say this could show that the rebels are building momentum. Up to this point, the Syrian regime has controlled the skies and this has often given them the upper hand. Hundreds if not thousands of civilians have been killed in air strikes since this summer.
Rebels say they hope the threat of a rebel missile strike will force the regime to think twice before employing the air force now.
Syrian Rebels Claim They Shot Down Fighter Jet With A Missile
Syrian rebels claim they shot down a MiG fighter jet not far from the Syrian-Turkish border on Wednesday. Along with the downing of a military helicopter on Tuesday, it would appear to be one of the first times rebels have successfully used a kind of weapon called a MANPAD, or portable, shoulder-fired, surface-to-air missile that can hit a plane in fight.
The development would mark a turning point in the rebels' bid to unseat Syrian President Bashar Assad.
Rebels say the Russian-made MiG fighter jet was shot down Wednesday morning near the town of Daarat Azzah, on the road north of the embattled city of Aleppo.
This video shows the plane bursting into flames in a clear blue sky then falling to the ground. The cameraman can be heard saying, "God is greatest."
Another video shows rebel fighters carry a wounded pilot from the wreckage. Abed Jabar Ogedi, head of the rebel military council in Aleppo, told NPR that a second pilot died.
The first pilot is
A later video shows the pilot
Then another video was released, this one showing a bearded man in a heavy coat and sunglasses describing how he shot down the plane with a rocket that's resting on his shoulder. He calls it an "Igla," which is the Russian name for an SA-16 or an SA-18.
It's a kind of missile that was used to take out planes during earlier conflicts in Bosnia, Rwanda and Iraq.
The fighter says the rebels seized the weapon when they overtook a Syrian army base earlier this month. Rebels have seized similar weapons before but this is the first time they appear to have used this particular system successfully.
Military analysts say this could show that the rebels are building momentum. Up to this point, the Syrian regime has controlled the skies and this has often given them the upper hand. Hundreds if not thousands of civilians have been killed in air strikes since this summer.
Rebels say they hope the threat of a rebel missile strike will force the regime to think twice before employing the air force now.
The fighter says the rebels seized the weapon when they overtook a Syrian army base earlier this month. Rebels have seized similar weapons before but this is the first time they appear to have used this particular system successfully.
How many will they sell on the international arms market to fund the revolt?
Not good news to see loose SA 16 and SA 18's in the mix.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Syria Shuts Down Cell Service, Internet, Flights
According to Internet-intelligence company Renesys, the Internet has been shut down throughout Syria, while the AP has learned that cell service is off in at least parts of the country. Further, Al Jazeera reports that rebels are advancing along the main road to Damascus’s airport and are within a couple kilometers, prompting the airport to halt all commercial flights...........
According to Internet-intelligence company Renesys, the Internet has been shut down throughout Syria, while the AP has learned that cell service is off in at least parts of the country. Further, Al Jazeera reports that rebels are advancing along the main road to Damascus’s airport and are within a couple kilometers, prompting the airport to halt all commercial flights...........
While I agree that this move is a prudent on to help out a NATO ally in a tense time, I have to wonder:
Is anyone in the Syrian regime stupid enough to begin deliberately launching missiles at Turkey, who have a non trivial military capability?
That would massively add to Assad's problem, above and beyond his considerable troubles with rebels, not reduce them.
Is anyone in the Syrian regime stupid enough to begin deliberately launching missiles at Turkey, who have a non trivial military capability?
That would massively add to Assad's problem, above and beyond his considerable troubles with rebels, not reduce them.
More disturbing news, not sure what to make of it.
Western intel sources have been reporting that Syrian forces who are charged with chemical weapons tasks have been put on alert, or given warning orders, to be prepared or prepare.
Other sources suggest that shells and bombs are being prepped for chemical weaponization, or are infact being loaded with sarin.
At the least, President Obama has spoken to the media with a message for Assad, telling him of the world's disapproval, blah blah blah, and "there will be consequences." I suppose he had to say something.
What gets me is that if Assad is in very desperate straights, and he and his inside circle think they need chem weapons, then things are getting worse, not better, in Syria.
The mad colonel in Libya indicated that he'd go down swinging.
Well, Assad may be taking the same approach.
Maybe if his allies, like Iran, were to speak up very publicly that chemical weapons need to be left untouched there might be a response.
How does anyone from the outside stop him from using them?
I don't think anyone can.
Is that infamous UN No Fly Zone move about to be tried?
Western intel sources have been reporting that Syrian forces who are charged with chemical weapons tasks have been put on alert, or given warning orders, to be prepared or prepare.
Other sources suggest that shells and bombs are being prepped for chemical weaponization, or are infact being loaded with sarin.
At the least, President Obama has spoken to the media with a message for Assad, telling him of the world's disapproval, blah blah blah, and "there will be consequences." I suppose he had to say something.
What gets me is that if Assad is in very desperate straights, and he and his inside circle think they need chem weapons, then things are getting worse, not better, in Syria.
The mad colonel in Libya indicated that he'd go down swinging.
Well, Assad may be taking the same approach.
Maybe if his allies, like Iran, were to speak up very publicly that chemical weapons need to be left untouched there might be a response.
How does anyone from the outside stop him from using them?
I don't think anyone can.
Is that infamous UN No Fly Zone move about to be tried?
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 6th Dec 2012 at 16:26.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
SYRIAN REBELS SEIZE KEY AIR BASE, ACTIVISTS SAY
BEIRUT (AP) — Islamic militants seeking to topple President Bashar Assad took full control of a strategic northwestern air base Friday in a significant blow to government forces, seizing helicopters, tanks and multiple rocket launchers, activists said.
The Taftanaz air base in the northern Idlib province is considered the biggest field in the country's north for helicopters used to bomb rebel-held areas and deliver supplies to government troops. Rebels from al-Qaida affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra and other Islamic groups have been fighting for weeks for control of the sprawling facility and broke into it on Wednesday evening. Activists said the rebels seized control of buildings, ammunition and military equipment after ferocious fighting at dawn.
"As of now, the rebels are in full control of the air base," said Idlib-based activist Mohammad Kanaan..........
BEIRUT (AP) — Islamic militants seeking to topple President Bashar Assad took full control of a strategic northwestern air base Friday in a significant blow to government forces, seizing helicopters, tanks and multiple rocket launchers, activists said.
The Taftanaz air base in the northern Idlib province is considered the biggest field in the country's north for helicopters used to bomb rebel-held areas and deliver supplies to government troops. Rebels from al-Qaida affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra and other Islamic groups have been fighting for weeks for control of the sprawling facility and broke into it on Wednesday evening. Activists said the rebels seized control of buildings, ammunition and military equipment after ferocious fighting at dawn.
"As of now, the rebels are in full control of the air base," said Idlib-based activist Mohammad Kanaan..........
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Guess what, it's all the fault of those dastardly Jews. They're working with both sides!! Then again, maybe it's just the usual regional paranoia. 
Bashar al-Assad accuses Israel of trying to 'destabilise' Syria
Bashar al-Assad accused Israel of trying to "destabilise" his country as he claimed last week's airstrike showed the Jewish state was behind the revolution seeking to overthrow his regime.
Turkey slams Syria's inaction over 'Israeli strike'
..........The foreign minister suggested there might exist a collaborative conspiracy between Israel and Assad's regime. "Is there a secret agreement between Assad and Israel? The Assad regime only abuses. Why don't you use the same power that you use against defenseless women against Israel, which you have seen as an enemy since its foundation," he said........
Bashar al-Assad accuses Israel of trying to 'destabilise' Syria
Bashar al-Assad accused Israel of trying to "destabilise" his country as he claimed last week's airstrike showed the Jewish state was behind the revolution seeking to overthrow his regime.
Turkey slams Syria's inaction over 'Israeli strike'
..........The foreign minister suggested there might exist a collaborative conspiracy between Israel and Assad's regime. "Is there a secret agreement between Assad and Israel? The Assad regime only abuses. Why don't you use the same power that you use against defenseless women against Israel, which you have seen as an enemy since its foundation," he said........
That's sorta funny.
In the not so funny department, over on Rotorheads there's a video of what looks to be a MANPAD engagement versus an Mi helicopter that chills the bone.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/508...own-syria.html
Just how many MANPADS are there running about loose in Syria ... and elsewhere?
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/508...own-syria.html
Just how many MANPADS are there running about loose in Syria ... and elsewhere?
