Kinloss - partial reprieve?
Kinloss - partial reprieve?
I have noticed that the Kinloss website has just been updated (my emphasis):
"Routine flying operations at Kinloss ceased on 31 July. However, there remains a current defence requirement for the airfield to act as a Relief Landing Ground (Emergency) for RAF Lossiemouth GR4 aircraft. The airfield continues to be used by the Moray Flying Club and No 663 VGS. Further work is now taking place to determine if a longer term requirement for the airfield remains."
Anyone have any inside knowledge of this? Apart from lodger units, what is happening at Kinloss now? The mess must be awfully quiet.
"Routine flying operations at Kinloss ceased on 31 July. However, there remains a current defence requirement for the airfield to act as a Relief Landing Ground (Emergency) for RAF Lossiemouth GR4 aircraft. The airfield continues to be used by the Moray Flying Club and No 663 VGS. Further work is now taking place to determine if a longer term requirement for the airfield remains."
Anyone have any inside knowledge of this? Apart from lodger units, what is happening at Kinloss now? The mess must be awfully quiet.
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The Moray Flying Club and the VGS were going to remain at Kinloss using the airfield anyway - question was, would the site be sold or used by MOD/Defence land, that would have decided what would happen to them in the future. For the immediate future they would have remained.
The situation with the emergency relief ground for Lossie aircraft came to the surface in the last few months. Despite everyone knowing the airfield was closing at the end of July out of the blue the airfield was needed by 1 Gp to act as an emergency airfield. As to what will happen to the airfield side of things when the as yet un-named army unit move in no-one knows. That could be the further work they talk about!
The situation with the emergency relief ground for Lossie aircraft came to the surface in the last few months. Despite everyone knowing the airfield was closing at the end of July out of the blue the airfield was needed by 1 Gp to act as an emergency airfield. As to what will happen to the airfield side of things when the as yet un-named army unit move in no-one knows. That could be the further work they talk about!
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It will end up spilt between interested parties like Dishforth is now. The RAF own the airfield and the Army own the domestic site. ATC provided by RAF detached from Lossie on a daily basis and no other RAF presence.
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It will end up spilt between interested parties like Dishforth is now. The RAF own the airfield and the Army own the domestic site. ATC provided by RAF detached from Lossie on a daily basis and no other RAF presence.
That's a bit of a trek, Lossiemouth to Dishforth.
Couldn't Linton send someone to do Local at Dishforth, same as they did for Topcliffe & Church Fenton?
Originally Posted by Doobry Firkin
Despite everyone knowing the airfield was closing at the end of July out of the blue the airfield was needed by 1 Gp to act as an emergency airfield.
We even had many posts on this site regarding this at the start of the year.
It is simply another case of those making the decision to close not being in posession of all the facts before making the decision.
There are 2 issues AFAIK:
1) With Leuchars closing as well, there is no 'military' diversion for use by the Lossie GR4 & Typhoon wing.
2) The GR4 OCU have major issues teaching roller landings to students due to the high fuel weight needed to preserve a diversion further away than Kinloss. Too high a fuel weight = no rollers/minimum rollers etc.
Here's a mad cap idea, why don't they just leave the Typhoon wing at Leuchars like what it is meant to be in the first place? Or if the Army are so insistant on moving into the University town, convince them of the logic of moving the Air Regiment from Gutersloh to Leuchars, that way the East Lothian UAS can continue to use Leuchars and the airfield can be maintained while housing some of the Army and, of course, act as a more realistic diversion for Lossiemouth!
FB
FB
SheffieldDoncasterRobinHood Boy,
You completely miss the point of closing Leuchars. It's closing because the RAF has no need for 4 fast jet bases and it has to lose the cost of running one from it's operating budget. As you could not move all of the Lossiemouth residents into Leuchars alongside 3 Typhoon squadrons, Leuchars is closing as a fast jet main operating base.
The AAC from Gutersloh will be going to Yeovilton when the AAC reduce to just 2 rotary types at 2 operational bases. Apache at Wattisham and Lynx Wildcat at Yeovilton alongside the Navy Wildcats.
I see no reason why the UAS couldn't stay at Leuchars, just as the UAS at Cosford could stay on the airfield there when the station is handed over to the Army.
You completely miss the point of closing Leuchars. It's closing because the RAF has no need for 4 fast jet bases and it has to lose the cost of running one from it's operating budget. As you could not move all of the Lossiemouth residents into Leuchars alongside 3 Typhoon squadrons, Leuchars is closing as a fast jet main operating base.
The AAC from Gutersloh will be going to Yeovilton when the AAC reduce to just 2 rotary types at 2 operational bases. Apache at Wattisham and Lynx Wildcat at Yeovilton alongside the Navy Wildcats.
I see no reason why the UAS couldn't stay at Leuchars, just as the UAS at Cosford could stay on the airfield there when the station is handed over to the Army.
Dear Pr00ne,
It would not be a question of moving the Lossiemouth personnel into Leuchars or vice versa, I understand that as the next two Typhoon squadrons stand up, two GR4 squadrons will stand down, as if the Typhoons were the GR4 replacements all along, but we know better than that I'm sure. This being the case, it would leave just the OCU to slot into Marham. The R.A.F. is able to cope with all eventualities these days with just 8 Fighter/Attack squadrons remember. What has actually happened, is Lossiemouth was due to close as it stood no contest against Marham. Leuchars was assured, then the row over closing Lossiemouth, and within days, you'll recall, the papers were claiming the end of Leuchars. But despite your professional background on the matter, you've got it wrong. The R.A.F. is not shoe horning units into 3 bases in order to save operating costs on one, they're reducing to 3 bases because they already have the spare capacity after the recent round of defence cuts.
By the way, what is the source you have which determines that the Army Air Corps will be re-deployed as you describe?
FB
It would not be a question of moving the Lossiemouth personnel into Leuchars or vice versa, I understand that as the next two Typhoon squadrons stand up, two GR4 squadrons will stand down, as if the Typhoons were the GR4 replacements all along, but we know better than that I'm sure. This being the case, it would leave just the OCU to slot into Marham. The R.A.F. is able to cope with all eventualities these days with just 8 Fighter/Attack squadrons remember. What has actually happened, is Lossiemouth was due to close as it stood no contest against Marham. Leuchars was assured, then the row over closing Lossiemouth, and within days, you'll recall, the papers were claiming the end of Leuchars. But despite your professional background on the matter, you've got it wrong. The R.A.F. is not shoe horning units into 3 bases in order to save operating costs on one, they're reducing to 3 bases because they already have the spare capacity after the recent round of defence cuts.
By the way, what is the source you have which determines that the Army Air Corps will be re-deployed as you describe?
FB
I know spend millions upgrading KSS to Harrier standards. Move the Harriers there, then close it again.
I'll get my coat.
I'll get my coat.
FB
JAJ
By the time Leuchars Typhoons become Lossiemouth Typhoons, there'll be no more GR4 OCU in Scotland, it'll be down at Marham. My suggestion of Leuchars as a diversion was from a weather and emergency point of view!
FB
By the time Leuchars Typhoons become Lossiemouth Typhoons, there'll be no more GR4 OCU in Scotland, it'll be down at Marham. My suggestion of Leuchars as a diversion was from a weather and emergency point of view!
FB
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Ever since the closure of KSS was discussed, the issue of a lack of suitable diversions for Lossie was understood by anyone with a minimum of intelligence. Losing KSS meant the loss of the 'crash div' and the upping of the minimum landing fuel by a considerable amount, reducing the fuel available for 'training' by the same considerable amount. Now, with the loss of LUK, the only suitable diversion for Lossie is Leeming - yes, Leeming. Inverness and Aberdeen are too short, unless a VERY strong wind is blowing; Glasgow and Edinburgh are too busy; Stornoway has no aids. If a Tornado has an emergency that requires a cable and cannot get into Lossie, the nearest div is now Leeming. Maybe, just maybe, someone up high has realised this and is trying to keep a runway (and cable) available at KSS. Without this, JMCs will have to be conducted in the Moray Firth so that the players can land with enough fuel for the distant diversions!
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One of your Tornados diverted here to Prestwick last week, as they, and other fast jets, commonly do. Prestwick is closer to Lossiemouth than Leeming is, last time I looked. Agreed, its not quite as close as Kinloss, however Prestwick has ''saved'' scores of USAF and RAF fast jets over the past 20 years, including F16s, Tornados and Hawks this year. Prestwick at the moment is probably the 2nd busiest airfield in the UK for military transit, 2nd only to Mildenhall. So lets not get carried away ignoring other options.
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By the time Leuchars Typhoons become Lossiemouth Typhoons, there'll be no more GR4 OCU in Scotland, it'll be down at Marham.