Tristars grounded again?
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Don't know much about the TriStar, do you?
DC10 3 variants
A300B4
Tornado 2 variants
Hawk 6 variants
So memory isn't as good as when I operated and taught/wrote about one type at a time.
There again, if 5% of what I said is wrong, it means 95% is right.
You stick to your "world of 5%", the rest of us will concentrate on the 95%.
Have a nice day . . .
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Quote:
So memory isn't as good as when I operated and taught/wrote about one type at a time.
It ain't, make no mistake.
One should remember...the TriStar, amongst all early generation widebody aircraft is the only one that has not crashed due to an aircraft/engine system malfunction..(and the Rollers are superb engines, and history has proven this...except QANTAS with their...bloted A380 POS).
TriStar...made in AMERICA, with proper British RB.211 engines.
In my thirty one years of flying the type in Command (16,000 hours plus), the 'ole girl has never ever let us down.
Ever.
The RAF has a fine aircraft alright, it (however) remains to be seen if they (the RAF) can keep in airbourne, within the bounds of their MoD budget.
Useless lower hold fuel tanks...included.
Don't hold your breath.
Having said this, I wish 'em well.
So memory isn't as good as when I operated and taught/wrote about one type at a time.
It ain't, make no mistake.
One should remember...the TriStar, amongst all early generation widebody aircraft is the only one that has not crashed due to an aircraft/engine system malfunction..(and the Rollers are superb engines, and history has proven this...except QANTAS with their...bloted A380 POS).
TriStar...made in AMERICA, with proper British RB.211 engines.
In my thirty one years of flying the type in Command (16,000 hours plus), the 'ole girl has never ever let us down.
Ever.
The RAF has a fine aircraft alright, it (however) remains to be seen if they (the RAF) can keep in airbourne, within the bounds of their MoD budget.
Useless lower hold fuel tanks...included.
Don't hold your breath.
Having said this, I wish 'em well.
DAS
Please, PLEASE. Before this thread disappears, will some one explain to me what DAS is? (Apologies if I've missed it earlier. Looked all through thread and couldn't see an explanation any where).
Thunderbirds are GO!
Thunderbirds are GO!
Wiki : Defensive aids system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or the 3rd word could be substituted as 'suite' depending which side of the pond you are apparently (according to my neighbour anyway)
Having spent an entertaining hour or so reading through this thread, it is great to see the Tri* are still flying (even if past their sell by date).
My last ever Tri* flight being on ZE705 - front right strecher bay!.
Peter
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I suggest that no further details of the DAS fitted to aircraft operating in theatre are posted here - those who Need to Know will know; those like you and I who have no need won't and will simply have to STFU!
However, knowledge of the likely threat and suitable detection and/or countermeasures available is vital.....
Years ago we had 2 x VC10Ks and 2 crews based at Antalya in the summer. The crews flew on alternate days; the rest of the time we lounged around the Sheraton pool - it was hell, I tell you. We had one K2 which had very poor 2-blower air conditioning and a knackered fridge pack but which had been fitted with a Radar Warning Receiver for Gulf War 1 and one K4 which had superb 4-blower air conditioning, fully serviceable cooling - but no RWR. It was pure luck which meant that one crew sweated their nuts off in the old K2, whilst the other stayed cool in the comfort of the K4.... Then one of the jets went tech for a day, so the 'hot' crew looked forward to flying in comfort for once now that the sequence had altered in their favour.
But they'd reckoned without the leadership skills of the DetCo who, to preserve his anonymity, I shall merely refer to as 'Daisy'...
Now Daisy, being something of a thrusting tw@, had discovered that it was some terrorist anniversary on the date in question, so ordered that due to increased likelihood of tension, the crew were to fly the K2 instead due to the fact that it had the 'extra protection'...
When I later asked Daisy what use a radar warning receiver was against terrorist infra-red SAM-7s, he didn't really have much of an answer....
Prat!
DAS is tailored against specific threats. What those might be and how it achieves defence is something you will only find out if you are actively involved in operations. If not, don't ask as you won't be told!
However, knowledge of the likely threat and suitable detection and/or countermeasures available is vital.....
Years ago we had 2 x VC10Ks and 2 crews based at Antalya in the summer. The crews flew on alternate days; the rest of the time we lounged around the Sheraton pool - it was hell, I tell you. We had one K2 which had very poor 2-blower air conditioning and a knackered fridge pack but which had been fitted with a Radar Warning Receiver for Gulf War 1 and one K4 which had superb 4-blower air conditioning, fully serviceable cooling - but no RWR. It was pure luck which meant that one crew sweated their nuts off in the old K2, whilst the other stayed cool in the comfort of the K4....
Then one of the jets went tech for a day, so the 'hot' crew looked forward to flying in comfort for once now that the sequence had altered in their favour.But they'd reckoned without the leadership skills of the DetCo who, to preserve his anonymity, I shall merely refer to as 'Daisy'...
Now Daisy, being something of a thrusting tw@, had discovered that it was some terrorist anniversary on the date in question, so ordered that due to increased likelihood of tension, the crew were to fly the K2 instead due to the fact that it had the 'extra protection'...When I later asked Daisy what use a radar warning receiver was against terrorist infra-red SAM-7s, he didn't really have much of an answer....
Prat!DAS is tailored against specific threats. What those might be and how it achieves defence is something you will only find out if you are actively involved in operations. If not, don't ask as you won't be told!
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I would like to comment on some people's put down of the RAF's catering: Let me tell you there catering was first rate. When I was there they put the left over meals in the squadron day room and were free for the taking. If I got there fast enough I could score a "steak and kidney pie or bangers and mash". I kept a small ice chest in my office to keep them frozen til I got home.
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Let me tell you there catering was first rate.
Now, if the RAF maintenance, funding and operation of their TriStars could be brought to par with other operators (past and present), considering that the RAF aircraft are low cycles/hours, as compared with others...the RAF just might be able to keep'em flying.
Maybe.
DAS
Thanks for your answers Pete268 and Justanopinion. Thats all I needed to know. So many alphabet soups, just couldn't work out this one.
As to you BEagle, I take great exception to your comments! You seem to be telling me to STFU for asking a question! A simple question about something thats been mentioned many, many times in this thread. I mealy asked what DAS stud for, not details about how it worked, pulse repartition rates, how many frequencies could be jammed simultaneously or what freqs the IR pulse could TX at! As far as I knew DAS could stand for Digital Avionics Suite, or be some kind of fuel management system as were basically talking airliners.
I, and I believe you, both did our bit to keep democracy free. A freedom were ANY ONE can ask ANY QUESTION at ANY TIME. What answer one gets is another matter of course, but I believe both answers came from public sauces which make your comments seem evan more antagonistic. So don't tell me to STFU for just asking a question!
As to you BEagle, I take great exception to your comments! You seem to be telling me to STFU for asking a question! A simple question about something thats been mentioned many, many times in this thread. I mealy asked what DAS stud for, not details about how it worked, pulse repartition rates, how many frequencies could be jammed simultaneously or what freqs the IR pulse could TX at! As far as I knew DAS could stand for Digital Avionics Suite, or be some kind of fuel management system as were basically talking airliners.
I, and I believe you, both did our bit to keep democracy free. A freedom were ANY ONE can ask ANY QUESTION at ANY TIME. What answer one gets is another matter of course, but I believe both answers came from public sauces which make your comments seem evan more antagonistic. So don't tell me to STFU for just asking a question!
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411A, although you have very good knowlege of the L1011 you know dilddly squat of F$£K all about RAF maintenance and procedures! Because there are no comercial pressures maintenance is generally to a far higher standard, also crew will not accept the defects that civil operators will, The L1011 beautiful looking as it is is a maintenance nightmare, BA when they operated them always had snag lists as long as your arm! The reason why the L1011 died an early commercial death is not only would it not carry the payloads of its competitors (DC10) its despatch reliability was (and still is) appalling in comparison.
Last edited by bluepilot; 9th Jan 2011 at 19:39.
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The L1011 beautiful looking as it is is a maintenance nightmare, BA when they operated them always had snag lists as long as your arm! The reason why the L1011 died an early comercial death is not only would it not carry the payloads of its competitors (DC10) its despatch reliability was (and still is) appalling in comparison.
CX? The same, operated the type for many years and made handsome profits.
TWA? Likewise.
About says it all for the RAF operation...day late, dollar short.
Just like BA.
Perhaps the RAF should have stuck with the VC-10...
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411A, as i said, you know diddly squat of F£$K all, and it seems you will defend the indefensible. The L1011 despatch and reliability record speaks for itself, (and i speak of all operators present and past) It was (is) in an unreliable heap of s$%T, looks great....but just couldnt cut it in the real world.
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It was (is) in an unreliable heap of s$%T, looks great....but just couldnt cut it in the real world.
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politics etc, L1011s were "moved" to the RAF before BA privatisation, at the time certainly NOT the RAF's choice! Harold Wilsons govs allegedly bribed to place the order....Maggie Thatchers govt trimming BA to become a privatisation wonder, now if you were to have an airline with an virtually new fleet bought and paid for, property worth billions and a clean new balance sheet with no debts plus a monopoly on many routes you would be very profitable! but thats a subject for another thread
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If as you say, bluepilot, then the RAF is right and truly up the creek.
Saddled with an airplane that they did not desire, cannot maintain (properly, even though other airlines did so with complete success) so...press on to do the best they can.
NB.
You might be interested in knowing...SaudiArabian operated 16 of the type (-200's) for many years, and when I was there, the dispatch rate was...98+ percent, year after year.
The reason was quite simple.
Adequate spares holding, TWA-trained ground engineers, and...using the FIRM code method of reporting snags....this saved huge amounts of time and ensured dispatch reliability.
And...operating the fine Lockheed airplane, by the Lockheed book, not some off the wall dreamed-up Brit (RAF or otherwise) total nonsense.
Saddled with an airplane that they did not desire, cannot maintain (properly, even though other airlines did so with complete success
) so...press on to do the best they can.NB.
You might be interested in knowing...SaudiArabian operated 16 of the type (-200's) for many years, and when I was there, the dispatch rate was...98+ percent, year after year.
The reason was quite simple.
Adequate spares holding, TWA-trained ground engineers, and...using the FIRM code method of reporting snags....this saved huge amounts of time and ensured dispatch reliability.
And...operating the fine Lockheed airplane, by the Lockheed book, not some off the wall dreamed-up Brit (RAF or otherwise) total nonsense.
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As many people have said before and will continue to say in the future....411A you talk utter crap....dont let the FACTS get in the way of a good story.
The aircraft was a disaster for Lockheed, it was unreliable, underperformed, and worse still despite alleged bribing of govts, a financial disaster for the company due to poor sales. This lead to production ceasing in 1983 after the sale of only 250 units of all variants and lockheed pulling out of civil airliner production. The basis of the aircraft was sound with many advances in technology being pioneered by the aircraft, (dark cockpit concept being one). But it simply did not shape up to the competition as well as being too fragile. The DC10 was in comparison damn right agricultural! but....it worked, sure it had its problems too that have been well documented over the years, but from a reliability and performance front the L1011 never came close.
We all know how much you hate the "limeys" 411A but dont blame us for the failings of the Tristar (apart from the engines lol).
The aircraft was a disaster for Lockheed, it was unreliable, underperformed, and worse still despite alleged bribing of govts, a financial disaster for the company due to poor sales. This lead to production ceasing in 1983 after the sale of only 250 units of all variants and lockheed pulling out of civil airliner production. The basis of the aircraft was sound with many advances in technology being pioneered by the aircraft, (dark cockpit concept being one). But it simply did not shape up to the competition as well as being too fragile. The DC10 was in comparison damn right agricultural! but....it worked, sure it had its problems too that have been well documented over the years, but from a reliability and performance front the L1011 never came close.
We all know how much you hate the "limeys" 411A but dont blame us for the failings of the Tristar (apart from the engines lol).
Last edited by bluepilot; 10th Jan 2011 at 00:03.
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Just look at the title of the thread, bluepilot, and see why many quite clearly ascertain that the RAF simply cannot do the job for which they have been charged.
That situation is unlikely to change in the near term....
That situation is unlikely to change in the near term....