Borneo 1962-66
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chugaz
You have done it this time!!
Them ain't Wessex 5s them is Wessex 1s - no power and no idea from 845! They were based on Bulwark hence the big B on the tail.
I enclose a photo of my foot to show you the difference in exhaust pipes!
Plus the A for Albion..................
You have done it this time!!
Them ain't Wessex 5s them is Wessex 1s - no power and no idea from 845! They were based on Bulwark hence the big B on the tail.
I enclose a photo of my foot to show you the difference in exhaust pipes!
Plus the A for Albion..................
Gentleman Aviator
Oh bast0n!
rotors running, HP's foot on cockpit sill, troops emplaning with fancy hats on ...
.... and you say the RAF SH force is gash!
rotors running, HP's foot on cockpit sill, troops emplaning with fancy hats on ...
.... and you say the RAF SH force is gash!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Teeters
Did I ever say gash?
PS what is HP?
PPS the only way to keep cool was to fly with your foot out of the window and let the wind blow up rather than the usual down................
PPPS Fancy hats!! The bobble on the top is actually a nail that keeps them on in the downwash..................
Did I ever say gash?
PS what is HP?
PPS the only way to keep cool was to fly with your foot out of the window and let the wind blow up rather than the usual down................
PPPS Fancy hats!! The bobble on the top is actually a nail that keeps them on in the downwash..................
The ADF aerials are on the rocks,so`s the tail HF,the hook`s open,no flotation gear...tut,tut.tut.
Best you don`t go anywhere near Scotland either,or the Argyle`s will make you into a haggis,or just a few `little bits`.....
HP is wot the `upper echelons` of the PC brigade call the `handling pilot`,in formal circles,as opposed to `I`ve got it ,Middy`....
Best you don`t go anywhere near Scotland either,or the Argyle`s will make you into a haggis,or just a few `little bits`.....
HP is wot the `upper echelons` of the PC brigade call the `handling pilot`,in formal circles,as opposed to `I`ve got it ,Middy`....
Well let me say a word in your favour, baston. Such elan, such style! The right leg resting nonchalantly on the window sill, though I daresay it has a more nautical term, scuttle or suchlike. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't a furled brolly by your side in order to poke the locals with if you needed to get directions from them (loudly and in English of course). English eccentricity at its best, on which we built an Empire. Oh, you're not, and we don't mention the Empire? My mistake, sincere apologies I'm sure.
As to the difference in Exhaust Pipes, yer 'avin a larf aintcher? I think the real problem was that my Wessex (got that bit right at least) wasn't the wrong Mark, or even the wrong Squadron, but from the wrong boat! What? Ship? Oh sorry again, perhaps I should just make my excuses and leave!
As to the difference in Exhaust Pipes, yer 'avin a larf aintcher? I think the real problem was that my Wessex (got that bit right at least) wasn't the wrong Mark, or even the wrong Squadron, but from the wrong boat! What? Ship? Oh sorry again, perhaps I should just make my excuses and leave!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sycers
and yes I flew one of them once!
We managed to get the HF sticks happily between the pebbles. Could you not in the Crabbies? (to be fair they were latterly modified to a more kindly angle to avoid an unfortunate tangle)
The hook was always open until shut with a load on it. Turning up with a closed hook could have fooled the lesser mortals on the ground. Hook always ready and waiting - no sports afternoons on a Wednesday for us Laddie!
Flot gear over the jungle? How deep was your puddle. Extra weight and maintenance - see sports afternoons above.
Oh and Chugaz - I like the idea of handling the pilot. As there was only one in the old cockaz one had a fair chance of a small inflow roll............
I include a picture of our RAF exchange officer............the confused look is because he had trouble working out that we had two engines...........nice tach though
and yes I flew one of them once!
We managed to get the HF sticks happily between the pebbles. Could you not in the Crabbies? (to be fair they were latterly modified to a more kindly angle to avoid an unfortunate tangle)
The hook was always open until shut with a load on it. Turning up with a closed hook could have fooled the lesser mortals on the ground. Hook always ready and waiting - no sports afternoons on a Wednesday for us Laddie!
Flot gear over the jungle? How deep was your puddle. Extra weight and maintenance - see sports afternoons above.
Oh and Chugaz - I like the idea of handling the pilot. As there was only one in the old cockaz one had a fair chance of a small inflow roll............
I include a picture of our RAF exchange officer............the confused look is because he had trouble working out that we had two engines...........nice tach though
Return To Reality
Oh NURSE, you've spoiled the youthful banter and general bon homme with your question.
The simple answer, as with many questions relating to payload is: 'it's a combination of all the factors'.
You had to be able to get airborne for a start and so a 'running take-off' would allow a few more pounds weight than a straight lift above the tree line and a transition to forward flight (one soldier = 10lbs of torque). If you were flying a shuttle, take more weight as the fuel went down. What's the height and temp doing? Where's the next load of fuel coming from and how do I get to it? Plus several other questions, including; 'is the boss looking?'
However, there are at least two v-experienced and greatly respected HPs contributing to this Thread who have more hours than I've 'ad hot dinners, so I'll leave it to their superior knowledge.
O-D
The simple answer, as with many questions relating to payload is: 'it's a combination of all the factors'.
You had to be able to get airborne for a start and so a 'running take-off' would allow a few more pounds weight than a straight lift above the tree line and a transition to forward flight (one soldier = 10lbs of torque). If you were flying a shuttle, take more weight as the fuel went down. What's the height and temp doing? Where's the next load of fuel coming from and how do I get to it? Plus several other questions, including; 'is the boss looking?'
However, there are at least two v-experienced and greatly respected HPs contributing to this Thread who have more hours than I've 'ad hot dinners, so I'll leave it to their superior knowledge.
O-D
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: YES
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure there are alot of stories and memories from all 3 services and 60's helecopter warfare tends to be dominated by US operations in Veitnam same goes for Jungle Warfare. Personally I think we did it much better and with more style.
BastON, is that the WX `Mk1` HUD/Gunsight or a reflection on the windscreen ?
NURSE, as O-D says,it was a time when one had to know your power limits,and the best techniques for landing and t/o,in the tropical climate,from sea level to 5-6000 ft LZs.On our WWs we only had fuel-flow as a measure of power(plus crpm,and ptit );we were also limited to a max AUW of 7800lbs,whereas civilian WW Seies 3 ,were cleared to 8000lbs.
And yes,we had bathroom scales,which were used to make a `standard weight`list,or if something different came along we would weigh it.For instance,105 MM field gun shells+charges came in a big wooden box,weighing some ,say 200 lbs, but about 40 lbs was the box wt. That was wasted weight,so we would just carry the shell+charges in their tubes, saved weight,carry more shells,easier to load/unload,everyone happy,and no back-loading of empty boxes..
To reduce the weight of the aircraft we also took out the seats,leaving the belts,HFradio,windows ,door on occasion,ran with minimum fuel,and if a large troop movement was required ,we would get them to go in light fighting order,where they had only about 2-3 days rations,leaving bergens behind,getting more troops on the ground,and once they were secure,we would ferry in the kit.It meant you could probably carry an extra 2-3 troops at a time,and they were much more mobile/flexible....Syc..
NURSE, as O-D says,it was a time when one had to know your power limits,and the best techniques for landing and t/o,in the tropical climate,from sea level to 5-6000 ft LZs.On our WWs we only had fuel-flow as a measure of power(plus crpm,and ptit );we were also limited to a max AUW of 7800lbs,whereas civilian WW Seies 3 ,were cleared to 8000lbs.
And yes,we had bathroom scales,which were used to make a `standard weight`list,or if something different came along we would weigh it.For instance,105 MM field gun shells+charges came in a big wooden box,weighing some ,say 200 lbs, but about 40 lbs was the box wt. That was wasted weight,so we would just carry the shell+charges in their tubes, saved weight,carry more shells,easier to load/unload,everyone happy,and no back-loading of empty boxes..
To reduce the weight of the aircraft we also took out the seats,leaving the belts,HFradio,windows ,door on occasion,ran with minimum fuel,and if a large troop movement was required ,we would get them to go in light fighting order,where they had only about 2-3 days rations,leaving bergens behind,getting more troops on the ground,and once they were secure,we would ferry in the kit.It meant you could probably carry an extra 2-3 troops at a time,and they were much more mobile/flexible....Syc..
we had two engines...........
Two sick Wessie at Sepulot with the robust Whirlwind; flown by me, who had to drag himself out of the Victoria Hotel bar in Labuan, so I could do their tasking for them.
It took them a week to get them started again.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sycaz
Indeed it was the HUD gunsight. The rocket sight was much more complicated as it necessitated firing a rocket and putting a chinagraph cross on the windscreen where it seemed to go..............
Ah - what happy days...............
Indeed it was the HUD gunsight. The rocket sight was much more complicated as it necessitated firing a rocket and putting a chinagraph cross on the windscreen where it seemed to go..............
Ah - what happy days...............
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Crossing Charlie
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Confrontation
I was an Infantry Officer during Confrontation Deployed in the Third Division and based in Long Jawi. As a late arrival after a jungle warfare course in Kota Tingi (Malaya) I travelled from Sibu to Nanga Ghat (NG), the home of 110 Sqn RAF, in a speed boat so all day up the mighty River Rajang. As you approached NG there was a Wessex 5 nose down in the river and not 100yards later OMG another one, all FAA. There were many stories of how these aircraft came to be there most of which seemed to centre on how many Gurkhas could you get on a Wessex and the answer seemed to be as many until she will just get into a hover then one more! Phrases like WTF have I let myself in for and I'll never fly here raced through ones mind. 110 flew Whirlwind 10s and I flew from NG to Long Jawi the following day with sacks of mail the trip took some 45 to 50 minutes passing a large mountain range, name escapes me but was the weather barometer for the trip as in if it was in cloud you didn't go. Life for the next 5 months was in and out of the jungle on 14 day patrols. The WW would take 4 soldiers loaded for bear (food and ammo) and the crewman was dispensed with. A Scout from the flight based in Sibu would also take 4 pax, 5 with the pilot. If the winds were unfavourable there was jungle refuelling stop available, Blue 49 code named Diana, with 44 gallon drums and water sedi kit available. Happy days, that expirience turned me to flying. 2 and a half years later I was on a flying course and the rest is history, thirty years flying with the AAC and never regretted it one minute. One of the 110 pilots was Sergeant Fred Aries (sp) other names have long gone. Scout pilots John Hathaway, John Bamford again other names gone as well. My last helicopter trip out of LJ was in a Belvedere which was timely as I had spent many a happy hour increasing the size of the LZs from WW to Belvedere size - much explosive, blisters and broken chain saw blades!!
LB
LB
Unfortunately.........
............. Low Ball, the pair of Wessex you saw in the river were not Mk 5s but Mk 1s and they were put there on 12 Apr 65 as a result of a mid air between two 845 cabs. There was only one survivor - a petty officer aircrewman, who released his running harness and dropped into the river, as I understand it.
The RN lost three men and the army lost a Para Regt patrol and one or more 'attached' soldiers. If you are a member of the Malaya & Borneo Veterans Assoc, they have a roll of honour with all these guys listed.
A chum of mine was at Nanga Gaat this very March and he photographed, inter alia, the remains of the engines and some other bits which still remain and can be seen depending on how high the river is.
Furthermore, you ought to be entitled to the Pingat Jasi Malaysia (PJM) - a medal issued by the Malaysian Government which the (very rude) British Government didn't want to accept but then relented, although not for wear!!! (So who's going to enforce that bit of useless legislation??).
O-D
The RN lost three men and the army lost a Para Regt patrol and one or more 'attached' soldiers. If you are a member of the Malaya & Borneo Veterans Assoc, they have a roll of honour with all these guys listed.
A chum of mine was at Nanga Gaat this very March and he photographed, inter alia, the remains of the engines and some other bits which still remain and can be seen depending on how high the river is.
Furthermore, you ought to be entitled to the Pingat Jasi Malaysia (PJM) - a medal issued by the Malaysian Government which the (very rude) British Government didn't want to accept but then relented, although not for wear!!! (So who's going to enforce that bit of useless legislation??).
O-D
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Old Duffer
Quite right. The rear cab flew into the tail rotor of the front cab - the rear pilot not being very strong in the sight department - but that is a very long and unhappy story not worth re-telling.
Quite right. The rear cab flew into the tail rotor of the front cab - the rear pilot not being very strong in the sight department - but that is a very long and unhappy story not worth re-telling.
Looking at the pictures of rockets.
Chunky Lord flew a Whirlwind equipped with SS11 missiles. He told me, over a few pints, that they fired one into a cave were a load of Indons were hiding. Owing to the skill of the operater, aided and abbetted by the rock steady flying of said Chunky, they sent a missile right into the back of the aformentioned geologcal feature and blew the whole lot out like a shotgun.
They were obviously too good so the RAF disbanded the squadron.
Chunky Lord flew a Whirlwind equipped with SS11 missiles. He told me, over a few pints, that they fired one into a cave were a load of Indons were hiding. Owing to the skill of the operater, aided and abbetted by the rock steady flying of said Chunky, they sent a missile right into the back of the aformentioned geologcal feature and blew the whole lot out like a shotgun.
They were obviously too good so the RAF disbanded the squadron.
XR456
Fareastdriver & Sycamore,
Poor old '456 stayed in the Far East and was with 103 Sqn when its engine stopped on 5 Nov 68, somewhere near Mersing. It went through the trees and ended up on the jungle floor. Although the pilot received back injuries, the crewman and another NCO were not too badly bashed about but 456 is still where she fell.
Pilot recovered and went on to be a stash at a well known helicopter base near Basingstoke (not an officers' town) and was last heard of living on a boat in marina in Cambridgeshire.
In a similar vein, I have somewhere a photo of XJ412 - another WW10 - perched on the very top of Tinker's Hill in Sabah. She had a tail rotor failure but it was too inaccessible to get her out and there she remains. At the time, she could be seen from miles away, sitting there and looking very sad but I expect she's buried beneath the canopy now, unless some enterprising local has dismantled her for scrap! If I can figure out how to do it, I'll post a pickkie.
Toodle Pip
O-D
Poor old '456 stayed in the Far East and was with 103 Sqn when its engine stopped on 5 Nov 68, somewhere near Mersing. It went through the trees and ended up on the jungle floor. Although the pilot received back injuries, the crewman and another NCO were not too badly bashed about but 456 is still where she fell.
Pilot recovered and went on to be a stash at a well known helicopter base near Basingstoke (not an officers' town) and was last heard of living on a boat in marina in Cambridgeshire.
In a similar vein, I have somewhere a photo of XJ412 - another WW10 - perched on the very top of Tinker's Hill in Sabah. She had a tail rotor failure but it was too inaccessible to get her out and there she remains. At the time, she could be seen from miles away, sitting there and looking very sad but I expect she's buried beneath the canopy now, unless some enterprising local has dismantled her for scrap! If I can figure out how to do it, I'll post a pickkie.
Toodle Pip
O-D