Threaders

There was some crewroom discussion last week which was left open and having spent a little time with LASORS this weekend I'm still not entirely sure of the answer.

In civilian speak are Pilot In Command Hours what we military types log as Captain, or are they what we would log as P1. Or perhaps a bit of both?

I don't want to sell my self short on my CV but nor do I want to be accused of bumping my hours up.

Many thanks

The Real Slim Shady

Pilot in Command is Captain: P1 is the pilot flying the aircraft, although the Captain always logs P1, but the FO would log P1 when he was pilot flying, P2 when he was pilot monitoring.

The Real Slim Shady

And Ozy I presume you have a P1CUS or P1S column printed in your logbook? I have P1,P2 and Dual and then the Command column but no P1CUS.

MrBernoulli

Slim,

Ozy is correct. Your mil logbook is fine, its just a terminology thing:

1. Just treat your Capt + P1 as 'P1'.
2. Treat P1 (i.e. operating but not the Capt) as 'P1 U/S' (under supervison).
3. P2 is just plain old 'P2', and Dual is 'Dual'!

If you are sending out your CV it is very simple to 'translate' it into the current 'civvie speak'.

However, be aware of one thing I have noticed in my current civvie employment, that I feel is disappointingly 'offside' - First Officers logging all the flight time when they are there as 'heavies' (relief pilots). Company SOPs state that you can only log time whilst in the operating seat, unless you are the skipper, or a trainer conducting your job from one of the observer seats. Never mind what the CAA rules say, and they are pretty similar I understand, but I have not flown with any other FO who logs only operating time in the seat. I have politely challenged only a couple, and the response is usually "Oh, is that so?" and a shrug. Disappointing ................

helidriver

I can't comment on the LASORS translation or the CAA equivalent but all mil pilots (possibly only rotary) only log either P1 or Dual and Captain time is clearly accredited to the Aircraft Commander. My latest logbook doesn't even have a column for P2. All P2 time ceased on 1 Jan 2001, and was to be acknowledged as P1, when a JHC directive brought the 3 services into line.

I can fully understand the confusion when trying to translate mil to civ, it's a shame the industry / mil does not have more standardisation on accreditiation.

h

Flap62

Frankly, if you'd worked a bit harder at BFTS then this wouldn't be a problem!!! It would all be P1 Capt!! - only joking!

Brain Potter

Yep, and he would also be flogging his way through a load of exams whilst looking forward to stumping up the cash to pay for an IR on a light piston twin.

Threaders

Thanks for the info so far.

I'm a rotary type so only have P1, Dual or Captain to choose from. My presumption was that Captain = PIC, but there are definitely people out there who think that you can use the totals from the P1 column as PIC.

I don't know if there's any one out there who's jumped ship to civi street recently and knows what the done thing is? Much as I'd like to make my CV look as strong as possible I don't really fancy being embarrassed at an interview, should I be able to get one at the moment.

BEagle

See LASORS Section A12 and Appendix B to LASORS Section A.

It's all there......

Tourist

Thankfully I'm Royal Navy, so I only have P1 or Dual.
Very helpfull

tradewind

Threaders - for what its worth, I emailed the FCL dept at the CAA last October as I was also slightly confused over the civilian equivelent of P1 Non-Capt. The following is word for word from their reply:

'Military P1 non-captain is logged as PICUS only for civilian purposes'

I am ex FJ, but I also assume it is applicable to rotory.


Hope this is more helpful than just a reference to LASORS!

BEagle

Sorry, but it isn't that simple. If you want to be 100% sure, you must refer to the source document rather than rely on crew room 'advice'.

LASORS is free to download at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS2...ookmarked).pdf . Anyone intending to become a civil pilot should certainly download the document for reference.

If you can't be ar$ed, then don't blame anyone else except yourself if your CV total or hours claimed are incorrect.

twentygrand

Something you should bear in mind - civil time is logged chock to chock while military is T/O to landing (or was while I was in a few years ago). When I left to fly civvie a friend of mine grossed his hours up to compensate, and to make his CV look better - I didn't bother!

BEagle

Again, guidance for taxy time allowance and the appropriate form to be used when carrying the modified total forward to a CV is given in LASORS in Section A pp 42-43. As are the limits allowable towards civil licence applications.

Note that taxy time allowance is not alllowable towards the 2000/1500(500)TT total required for full military accreditation as the 2000/1500(500)TT must be 'as logged in a military logbook'.