Military AircrewA forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
I am afraid i tend to agree with the guy above! It sounds as though you have seen a bit of how the RAF works with the ATC so surely you should be as keen as mustard because quite frankly, if you are'nt then dont bother.
In answer to your question, it is a great "job" but therein lies the secret, it isnt a job, it is a way of life, and a very good one too.
To get back to Ozzib88's question the answer is yes, of course it is worth joining up. ATC experience is a great first stepping stone. There is a lot of seemingly pointless BS to military life, but look past that and you'll see a great career ahead.
I really did enjoy my time at the ATC was brillian loved it all but i had to leave due to me moving abroad!! (im back now)
The question as in worth it was mainly about how much flying time, living on the base? that stuff and if there is much or will be much recruitment going on. Not just to see if everything else fails il join the RAF. It has been a dream since 13 ie ATC.
Just incase your wondering why i havent rejoined, i have to work afta skool to fund my PPL. otherwise i would have been straight back to the ATC!!
Location: 2J WA 116.24E 31.29S and Jet Blast photos
Posts: 53
Apply by all means but I would strongly suggest that you use the time between now and then in learning how to write (and probably speak) correct English - not textspeak.
You're young and will eventually learn that us nasty grown ups (particularly those at RAF Recruiting offices, OASC and IOT) are rather partial to those who can use their own language correctly. Might be good enough for the playground/pub in Crawley but not for the Sergeants' or Officers' Messes.
Further to my last quick off-the-cuff remark, which I stand by, I would add that getting other people's opinions is fine, but look in your heart, temper it with what you have seen already and make up your own mind.
I can only speak about the RAAF, not the RAF, but would suggest the basics are similar.
Talk to 10 people and you'll get a confusing range of attitudes which are all about how they feel they have been treated during their service. Fundamentally, if you remain positive you will tend to have positive experiences.
Think about it; many people would give their left proverbial to fly military aircraft, and the training is excellent. So even with low flying hours on some types, and some military illogicalities to put up with sometimes, to do that is to do something really good; plus when you get out you have well respected credentials because the taxpayer has spent a million on you (not sure how many pounds you guys estimate to train an RAF pilot, but must be a goodly amount!).
In the end it's up to you to decide to apply or not - obviously getting in is another thing, but really wanting to do it is a good starting point.
i would apply whatever your feelings, i was never made oasc in the end for a few reasons and regret it every day.
Dont worry and be put off by people who say becuase you are questioning joining that its not for, its a way of life etc etc. You need to very carefully consider what you are about to do, it requires more commitment than anything else in life because it is a way of life and you must really want to become part of the RAF.
Attend the filter interview study hard attend OASC and lets see what happens.
Remember, you dont have to join if you dont want to. Although if i could do back two years i would.
No. Id advise against it. Talk to any young guy who is in IOT, or has completed IOT, or anyone in flying training.
Defence cuts and management errors have made the RAF a tough going career.
I know one guy from my UAS, indeed our senior student. Who went fast jet. So he did eft, bfjt and then got chopped pilot altogether nearing the end of valley.
Not the most inspirational of responses to your thread so far and I shall endeavour to be a little more positive.
At your age, having any idea of a future career is better than 99.9% of your peers and it is a good age to reach a well reasoned conclusion of the matter. It doesn't appear to me that you are making a 'spur of the moment' decision to apply to the armed forces as you say you have been thinking about an RAF career since 13 and have made progress towards that goal by joining the ATC and by working for a PPL. I do not believe that to consider a career in the armed forces means that you must run at it regardless of the drawbacks, and I do believe that it is a large step that must be considered. Weighing up the pros and cons of big decisions is a skill that all armed forces officers must posess. However, that said (and this is where I must support the comments already made) once you have decided on an armed forces career, you must give it everything you have from the day you apply to the day you leave the service. One day your life, and the lives of your friends around you may depend on you doing your job correctly, which means you have had to work damn hard through every minute of training.
Whether you should apply or not I cannot say. Even if we knew all of your personal circumstances, we do not know you personally. There is a certain personality that suits the armed forces (face fits etc). You must be committed and respectable as well as having enough personality and enough of a sense of humour to get along with the people around you. As 'arm out of the window' has said before, only you can decide if a life in the armed forces is for you (and it is a life!).
Would I recommend it? Well I am only in the beginning of the training system and as BoraBora says there are drawbacks and people less than satisfied, but for every dissatisfied customer I know in IOT, after IOT and in the training system, I could point you to at least ten more who have never looked back. What I will say is that you will never find the opportunity to work with such a great group of people in another career (assuming of course you are that type of person).
I would recommend finding out more about life in the RAF. In my experience, cadets was a terrible indicator of what life in the service is like and at times only made me less enthusiastic (drill twice a week was about all my squadron staff managed for my five years and when I tried to organise stuff myself my CO was the proverbial brick wall). Write to your AFCO (In the queen's english of course ) and ask for a chance to see the service working. Try and visit a UAS or something but this is a decision you have to work out for yourself.
The idea of seeing service life up front is a good one. Places such as Marham do good work experience placements, and if you write a nice letter to your local base it could maybe (and i stress the maybe), be arranged.
The evidence suggests that any 'flashback' is a memory response triggered by audio/visual illusions to which we are all subject. It is because the user has had heightened awareness to these phenomena during their drug-experience/fix, that when they see them once 'sober', they associate this with their drug experience.
There was no evidence (at least by 1994) that any drug remains in the brain long enough to cause symptoms long after the event. Lots of false information on that subject propelled by poorly educated 'authorities'.
Longer-term effect of Psychadelic/stimulant drugs is unknown. Lots of talk of altering brain structure. Not good news for those who've taken NAPS, or inhaled pesticides,or eaten unwashed vegetable/fruit produce. All these contain chemicals that act on the brain synapses in similar ways to the above drugs. Gulf War Syndrome? BSE/CJD anyone??
Interestingly, cannabis abuse (and I'm talking habitual heavy use here) can have devastating effects on the individual. I know of an individual who has been left with Psychosis (Diagnosed as Schizophrenia; however it's drug induced psychosis really), and his motor/social skills are shot to pieces.
I somehow expect that this chap is to cannabis what an alcoholic is to booze: both extreme cases.
The bottom line, however, is that NO 'recreational' drug is compatible with flying. That includes cannabis, alcohol (how many accidents in the past?) and caffeine and all the other nasties.
Incase you're wondering about caffeine, it's truly dreadful. Appalling for concentration-heavy tasks, like flying, is likely to cause heart arrythmia (Sp?), migraines, poor sleep levels and may contribute to an individual's high stress levels. Most surprisingly, in one study, it had a greater mental debilitating effect than ALL other 'recreational' drugs, including LSD! Anectodal evidence backs this up.
Not surprisingly, the only documented positive effect of caffeine is to reduce the effects of caffeine withdrawal! The true concentration wonder-drug would be nicotine, so we should all patch up before flight!!
Don't accept anything that you don't want to do, it is very hard to change once they've got you. And definitely don't get sent down the bunker as Fighter Control unless you've thought 'Wow, I'd really like to do that job'.
As for leadership, learn to read and assimilate the given task, then delegate tasks to your team whilst retaining an overall control. This may involve you standing back to observe, and not even getting involved.
Make your instructions loud, clear and concise. Make sure your team know the plan, try not to leave them in any doubt what each of them have to do. Make your initial brief to the point, making sure that you don't leave yourself in a situation where your credibility as a leader is called into doubt (ie make sure you think of different ways around the same problem, so if your 1st plan goes wrong, you can adapt and overcome, without even batting an eyelid!)
Keep on top of your team throughout, without becoming annoyingly involved. There may be stronger characters than youin the team, so get them involved in the thick of it. It might prevent them trying to taking over, and help your credibility. It's managing who you've got to get the job done with minimum fuss Enjoy yourself, you never know, it might be catching!
If only,
What If'
Maybe If I had only tried;
You've really answered you're own question.
And this applies to all Mil wannabes-
You've got 35 yrs, spend it all with the airlines?
Fly a fast jet?
Do it for real in a helo?
Land a C-130 on a beach?
Never have regrets.....
Not sure if it is worth it if you're not sure, BUT if you are, then definately. Do it, you'll love it, as so many of the threads on PPRuNe are testament to. You will meet your best friends, have the best time, in whatever aircraft you end up on, and drink more than you ever thought possible Yes, it's difficult at the moment, and doubtless becoming more so, but if you want it enough you should go for it; otherwise you'll only think "what if". Work hard, play hard
Thanks for all the advice guys, I just have to a) be positive b) keep calm and c) convince the boarding officers! (Easier said than done going on last year!).
I think knowing where I fell down last year is making it even more nerve-wrackng on the build-up to this year as I know I'll be so conscious of it.
With the current reduction in commissions to be handed out these days, accepting an offer in a branch that does not 'float my boat' is somewhat tempting. However, spending 16 years in a trade I know I wouldn't enjoy would be taking a gamble I don't think I would have the balls to accept! It's a difficult one!
6foottanker - I think I will be taking your lecture with me to read over and over the night before the hangar exercises for some focus! Am on a visit to 'an airfield in the Cotswolds' this Monday...who knows we may cross paths and we wouldn't even know it!
Having myself fallen into the OASC (Biggin Hill) trap of being convinced by the DS that I had a higher aptitude for FC than ATC (my first choice) and being too tall for the diminutive Jet Provost, despite passing for GD(P) and (N), I tried to change branch once I had graduated from Cranwell and on my holding post - it seldom happens and you wouldn't want to have to go back to OASC for reselection if you were unsuccessful in training and if it had been evident that you hadn't been heart and soul in trg.
I was 18 when I went to BH and still look back and think how did I get through compared to many of the candidates that I know failed selection. The main thing is to be confident, this is mirrored throughout all of the above posts, and while being assessed as a leader, be a part of the team.
However, I wouldn't encourage anyone to make any form of career decision on selecting any branch based upon brochures and AFCO-speak - no matter how good and honest the staff, you are making a life choice. Ask the CIO for a visit to a working unit (they used to be called realistic job preview visits) - in your case I suggest to a main flying base where you can meet officers from all branches in the workplace. This normally involves staying overnight in the mess and visiting any areas of interest to you as well as getting more info on training. If nothing else, you will catch up on many OASC stories on selection boards and give you a chance to discuss issues with the RAF outside of the AFCO/OASC.
You've really go to want to do it, so did I; be prepared , however, for your tastes to change...15 yrs ago I was single with no children, now I need to spend more time at home with the snappers and don't want to mix it away so often...but these days you really have to REALLY WANT TO DO IT. Best of luck.
HM
) and ask for a chance to see the service working. Try and visit a UAS or something but this is a decision you have to work out for yourself.
Yes, it's difficult at the moment, and doubtless becoming more so, but if you want it enough you should go for it; otherwise you'll only think "what if". Work hard, play hard
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