Lightning Engineer Airborne?
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Lightning Engineer Airborne?
There is a story, I don't know if its apocryphal or not, that an engineer doing a ground run in a lightning once accidemtly got airborne. Is there any truth in this?
Yes, chap called Walter Holden. CO of 60MU. 22 Jul 66 at Lyneham - Checking a fault in XM135 that only appeared under acceleration for take off...
While testing for the fault, reheat was engaged, and things all went pear-shpaed. Petrol bowser crossing runway ahead, Comet taking off to left, village ahead of him... So pulled back on stick and took off. No canopy and seat pins in place. The new soloist made use of some experience on a Chipmunk and managed to land the Lightning after a couple of attempts.
The story (from which I've taken the above summary) is on pp.272/3 of the first volume of Stewart Scott's history of the Lightning.
Like Gainsey, ISTR a thread on history and nostalgia about this with some more details.
While testing for the fault, reheat was engaged, and things all went pear-shpaed. Petrol bowser crossing runway ahead, Comet taking off to left, village ahead of him... So pulled back on stick and took off. No canopy and seat pins in place. The new soloist made use of some experience on a Chipmunk and managed to land the Lightning after a couple of attempts.
The story (from which I've taken the above summary) is on pp.272/3 of the first volume of Stewart Scott's history of the Lightning.
Like Gainsey, ISTR a thread on history and nostalgia about this with some more details.
Yes it is true!
It happened at Lyneham in July 1964 when Wg Cdr Taffy Holden was checking Lightning F Mk 1 XM135 for an elusive electrical fault. He managed to get both engines stuck in full A/B, took off and roared around Lyneham for 12 min until he managed a shaky landing on the main runway, stopping 100 yd from the end of the RW. Not bad considering his only solo time had been years earlier on piston-engined trainers!
But I understand that he suffered mentally for many years thereafter.
(Posting crossed!)
It happened at Lyneham in July 1964 when Wg Cdr Taffy Holden was checking Lightning F Mk 1 XM135 for an elusive electrical fault. He managed to get both engines stuck in full A/B, took off and roared around Lyneham for 12 min until he managed a shaky landing on the main runway, stopping 100 yd from the end of the RW. Not bad considering his only solo time had been years earlier on piston-engined trainers!
But I understand that he suffered mentally for many years thereafter.
(Posting crossed!)
BEagle, you're quite correct. I remember reading about this in, let's call it 'The Bumper Book of Remarkable Stories about Aviation' since I can't for the life of me remember the title. IIRC, Walter Holden said that the Stn Commander told him to take the rest of the day off (or something similar), and to have a slightly longer-than normal weekend (it was a Friday).
While he (Holden) appreciated the kindness, he subsequently considered that heading straight to the bar and going home rather later than normal might have enabled him to rid himself of the memory rather more swiftly. He had nightmares for years afterwards. I'll try and find the book in the purple learning centre library and get the proper details.
While he (Holden) appreciated the kindness, he subsequently considered that heading straight to the bar and going home rather later than normal might have enabled him to rid himself of the memory rather more swiftly. He had nightmares for years afterwards. I'll try and find the book in the purple learning centre library and get the proper details.
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I heard a rumour - and this is the rumour network!! - that the said engineer had expressed an interest in flying the lightning before the incident and may have seen this as his big chance....
Guilty until proven otherwise!!! :o)
Guilty until proven otherwise!!! :o)
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Story I heard was, apart from no pins, the seat was still in the armament bay.
As the ac still "belonged" to MSU, they installed an orange box type tressel thingy, which riggers could sit on, so not to tread on anything delicate during servicing - hence no canopy - no brake chute etc etc
I think this was a farewell fling
Still, more famous than being towed past handbrake house on a bomb trolley wearing a bowler hat
Wonder if OC Eng at Lossie could pull that one off today - eh?
As the ac still "belonged" to MSU, they installed an orange box type tressel thingy, which riggers could sit on, so not to tread on anything delicate during servicing - hence no canopy - no brake chute etc etc
I think this was a farewell fling
Still, more famous than being towed past handbrake house on a bomb trolley wearing a bowler hat
Wonder if OC Eng at Lossie could pull that one off today - eh?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
LC and Buoy 15 I can 'confirm' both your 'stories'. Given the other posts about the after effects does cause one to challenge those theories however.
At the time there was no scorn but pure admiration. That he had only Chpmonk experience (fact?) was muted in our thoughts because at the time the RAF had put quite a few engineers and medics through flying training and one operational tour before returning them to branch.
We had an AEO next door, one GA Johns, who we did not believe was a ground eng. Last I heard he had made wing cdr. We naturally assummed that OC Eng had also had some pilot training albeit years before.
At the time there was no scorn but pure admiration. That he had only Chpmonk experience (fact?) was muted in our thoughts because at the time the RAF had put quite a few engineers and medics through flying training and one operational tour before returning them to branch.
We had an AEO next door, one GA Johns, who we did not believe was a ground eng. Last I heard he had made wing cdr. We naturally assummed that OC Eng had also had some pilot training albeit years before.
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I hope the guy is still with us and enjoying life. He deserves it!
Just goes to show you that Engineers can do anything (I could be biased here)
I've flown a Lightning on Fs2002 successfully how difficult can the real thing be? 
Just goes to show you that Engineers can do anything (I could be biased here)
I've flown a Lightning on Fs2002 successfully how difficult can the real thing be?
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I was around at the time.The story was that the MU 'phoned the Transport squadrons asking if they could borrow a pilot for some ground runs. It was only when they got no takers that the MU boss elected to do it himself to avoid any more delays.
The aircraft was reportedly chocked and with grills over the engines and certainly had no hood or operating bang seat. It was an inadvertent selection of reheat on both engines that got the show on the road.
I seem to remember it was a Britannia crew (the aircraft not the airline) that was taking off on the main runway when the Lightning hurtled across their bows.
Apparently nothing was said by the pilots until they passed a thousand feet or so when they just looked at each other and said:
....errr?
The poor engineer Wg Cdr was reputed to be twitchy at every sound of a jet engine after that, even though one rumour was that he did it deliberately.
The aircraft was reportedly chocked and with grills over the engines and certainly had no hood or operating bang seat. It was an inadvertent selection of reheat on both engines that got the show on the road.
I seem to remember it was a Britannia crew (the aircraft not the airline) that was taking off on the main runway when the Lightning hurtled across their bows.
Apparently nothing was said by the pilots until they passed a thousand feet or so when they just looked at each other and said:
....errr?
The poor engineer Wg Cdr was reputed to be twitchy at every sound of a jet engine after that, even though one rumour was that he did it deliberately.
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The story was reported in Air Clues in the mid 60's. From memory he was supposed to be sitting in a wicker chair. I don't think any rational guy would take to the air deliberately in a Ligntning without a canopy or bang seat.
ACW
ACW
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I don't think any rational guy would take to the air deliberately in a Ligntning without a canopy or bang seat.
an engineer doing a ground run in a lightning
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As an engineer who does engine runs on a regular basis, I can tell you that at high power settings you are VERY "twitchy"!. Your hand is constabtly on the throttles and your natural urge when anything untoward happens is to snap the throttles back to idle and to ask questions after!.
Now I have not run a Lightning at full bore but I bet I can snap the throttles back quicker that!
Rgds Dr I
Now I have not run a Lightning at full bore but I bet I can snap the throttles back quicker that!
Rgds Dr I
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I think I posted on the previous thread on this topic, but I believe it was 'put down' to the throttle sytem on the (Mk1??) which required catches to be lifted to disengage reheat - should it be engaged. Later Lightnings had a 'sideways rock' throttle path for reheat which was more obvious to use.
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The early Frightenings ha d a set of "piano keys" you had to manipulate to disengage the reheat and I understand it was quite fiddly to do. I also heard he missed several approaches to land and eventually opted to try and land downwind as the ensuing fireball then wouldn't go through the overrun into the houses. Great story and most definately true!
We have 'done' this on the military forum before, but I can add a little.
Wing Commander 'Taff' Holden ended up at RAF Halton (when it was still No.1 School of Technical Training) and was, I think, OC Basic Studies Wing. As an awed teenager I met him, and heard the story from the horse's mouth. Any ex-Brat from that time (sometime during the 74-78 period) might recall him.
Like many Eng officers of his vintage (commissioned immediately after the war, I imagine) Taff did a pilot training course to 'Wings' standard - which in his day meant Chipmunk and Harvard as I recall.
In addition to no seat, I recall that he had no canopy, no radio and no helmet......
He was a really lovely chap, and I often wonder where he is now.
Wing Commander 'Taff' Holden ended up at RAF Halton (when it was still No.1 School of Technical Training) and was, I think, OC Basic Studies Wing. As an awed teenager I met him, and heard the story from the horse's mouth. Any ex-Brat from that time (sometime during the 74-78 period) might recall him.
Like many Eng officers of his vintage (commissioned immediately after the war, I imagine) Taff did a pilot training course to 'Wings' standard - which in his day meant Chipmunk and Harvard as I recall.
In addition to no seat, I recall that he had no canopy, no radio and no helmet......
He was a really lovely chap, and I often wonder where he is now.
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There's a bit about it here.
And what's the story about "the famous RAF Coltishall accident when a Lightning taxied into the crew room"?
And what's the story about "the famous RAF Coltishall accident when a Lightning taxied into the crew room"?
It was in 1968 - and the pilot was an A1 QFI 
on a refresher course. He didn't do his after landing checks properly, so left both engines running at idle instead of shutting one down and putting the other to fast idle (to keep the ac power on-line). As the main hydraulic pressure gauge was ac-powered, this meant no hyd indication (!!) and - surprise surprise - he had a services hydraulic failure = no brakes = leave taxyway and attack hangar!
The instructor sitting in the office at the time was a bit startled, and only just got out of the way in time. After the impact, the pilot climbed out and ranalong the roof of the offices on the front of the hangar, leaving the ac with both engines running at full tilt (throttles rammed forward by collision) sucking in masonry and spitting gravel all over the pan.
on a refresher course. He didn't do his after landing checks properly, so left both engines running at idle instead of shutting one down and putting the other to fast idle (to keep the ac power on-line). As the main hydraulic pressure gauge was ac-powered, this meant no hyd indication (!!) and - surprise surprise - he had a services hydraulic failure = no brakes = leave taxyway and attack hangar!The instructor sitting in the office at the time was a bit startled, and only just got out of the way in time. After the impact, the pilot climbed out and ranalong the roof of the offices on the front of the hangar, leaving the ac with both engines running at full tilt (throttles rammed forward by collision) sucking in masonry and spitting gravel all over the pan.