Last RAF kill
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And it was, according to www.acig.org (Air Combat Information Group website). The "Mig Eater" destroyed it on the ground though.
Regarding the Falklands conflict, the last RAF air-to-air kills were three Argentine Skyhawks, by Sea Harriers on June 8, 1982.
The Phantom-Jaguar incident over Germany happened two weeks earlier.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_303.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_158.shtml
Regarding the Falklands conflict, the last RAF air-to-air kills were three Argentine Skyhawks, by Sea Harriers on June 8, 1982.
The Phantom-Jaguar incident over Germany happened two weeks earlier.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_303.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_158.shtml
The RN shooting down 3 skyhawks is'nt an RAF kill then is it really, seeing as the RAF don't have any Sea Harriers.............?!
Oh yeah............why is this in the Airlines, Airports & Routes thread?
Ah! Its now been moved!
Oh yeah............why is this in the Airlines, Airports & Routes thread?
Ah! Its now been moved!
Ignoring the ...ahem... unfortunate Phantom vs Jag incident (and the alleged shooting down of an abandoned Harrier GR 3 heading sans pilot towards E. Germany by Lightnings, etc) and sticking to conflicts, the last confirmed air-air kill scored by an RAF pilot in an RAF-owned (not FAA) aircraft would have been in World War 2.
[Edited to add - No it wasn't, you idiot! In fact, it was probably the clash between RAF and Egyptian aircraft in 1948 when the EAF lost a couple of Spitfires to RAF Spitfire FR 18s....]
Unofficially, though, there are strong rumours that there was at least one air-air in the Indonesian confrontation when a Javelin brought down a C-130. ISTR that Jackonicko said 'the evidence is there if you know where to look', but I've not looked there myself yet. Perhaps I will...
There are a couple of less well-substantiated claims about a Hunter and a MiG (-17?).
If the ownership of the airframes is removed from the equation, then the Falklands was the last occasion with the RAF providing about 25% of SHAR pilots who scored about 25% of the victories. The joint leading scorer was from the RAF (Flt Lt Dave Morgan), although he subsequently transferred to the RN.
RAF pilots also scored victories flying with the USAF during the Korean war, and, IIRC, there was one scored while with 77 Sqn RAAF on Meteor 8s. However, IMayNot RC there...
[Edited to add - No it wasn't, you idiot! In fact, it was probably the clash between RAF and Egyptian aircraft in 1948 when the EAF lost a couple of Spitfires to RAF Spitfire FR 18s....]
Unofficially, though, there are strong rumours that there was at least one air-air in the Indonesian confrontation when a Javelin brought down a C-130. ISTR that Jackonicko said 'the evidence is there if you know where to look', but I've not looked there myself yet. Perhaps I will...
There are a couple of less well-substantiated claims about a Hunter and a MiG (-17?).
If the ownership of the airframes is removed from the equation, then the Falklands was the last occasion with the RAF providing about 25% of SHAR pilots who scored about 25% of the victories. The joint leading scorer was from the RAF (Flt Lt Dave Morgan), although he subsequently transferred to the RN.
RAF pilots also scored victories flying with the USAF during the Korean war, and, IIRC, there was one scored while with 77 Sqn RAAF on Meteor 8s. However, IMayNot RC there...
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Over There
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to an ex-GR1 mate, the kill in GW1 was scored by a GR1 bombing an Iraqi airfield. An unfortunate Iraqi was taking off during the raid, was airborne as the bombs hit, and his aircraft was destroyed, which apparently counts as an air-to-air kill.
BCH
BCH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Home Counties
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last RAF air-to-air kill
Bombs surely don't count, guns or missiles only!!!
If you discount the rumours regarding a Javelin of 60 Sqn downing an Indonesian C-130 and a 20 Sqn Hunter having a manoeuvre kill against an Indonesian MiG-17 in the mid 1960s and also discount the 92 Sqn F4 v 31 Sqn Jaguar incident on 25 May 82, then I believe you have to go a long way back to find the last completely RAF air-to-air kill.
As far as I am aware, the last RAF pilot flying an RAF aircraft to achieve an air-to-air kill was Fg Off Tim McElhaw of 208 Sqn on 22 May 48. The sqn were based at Ramat David, to the southeast of Haifa, covering the final withdrawal of British Forces from Palestine following the declaration of the state of Israel on 14 May 48. Hostilities had already broken out between the Israelis and the surrounding Arab states, then on 22 May 48 at 0610 hrs two Egyptian LF9 Spitfires attacked the RAF base at Ramat David, presumably mistaking it for an Israeli base. The Spitfires strafed the Spitfire FR18s of 32 and 208 Sqns that were parked in two neat lines, destroying two and damaging another eight. Nobody was injured in the initial attack despite a number of bombs also being dropped on the airfield.
The majority of the pilots of 32 and 208 Sqns were recovering from a severe hangover when the initial attacked occurred, having enjoyed a particularly exuberant Dining In Night at which it had been decided that the Officers’ Mess would be burnt to the ground on the final departure to prevent it falling into the hands of the Israelis. After the initial attack two pilots of 208 Sqn (Fg Offs Geoff Cooper and Roy Bowie) got airborne in Spitfire FR18s and mounted a standing patrol over the airfield. At 0710 hrs three more Egyptian LF9 Spitfires returned to attack the airfield again, destroying a Dakota that was attempting to land, killing two of the crew. Cooper and Bowie shot down one Egyptian LF9 each, the third was shot down by the combined fire of two RAF Regiment Bren Gunners, Sgt Atkinson and AC Waind.
At 0930 two Egyptain LF9s decided to stage a third attack on Ramat David. This time Fg Tim Off McElhaw and Fg Off Hully of 208 Sqn had taken over the standing patrol. Fg Off McElhaw flying Spitfire FR18 TZ228 managed to intercept and shoot down both LF9s, despite this incident being the first time he had ever done any air-to-air firing. Tim McElhaw was later shot down himself by a Canadian flying a Spitfire LF9 for the Israelis - but that's another story.
Tim McElhaw is still alive, along with Roy Bowie – I have no idea what happened to Geoff Cooper after he retired as the aviation correspondent of the Daily Telegraph or Hully. The above details form part of an article I have written about the incidents involving the IAF and RAF in 1948/9 which should appear in Air Enthusiast early in the New Year.
Heimdall
www.spyflight.co.uk
If you discount the rumours regarding a Javelin of 60 Sqn downing an Indonesian C-130 and a 20 Sqn Hunter having a manoeuvre kill against an Indonesian MiG-17 in the mid 1960s and also discount the 92 Sqn F4 v 31 Sqn Jaguar incident on 25 May 82, then I believe you have to go a long way back to find the last completely RAF air-to-air kill.
As far as I am aware, the last RAF pilot flying an RAF aircraft to achieve an air-to-air kill was Fg Off Tim McElhaw of 208 Sqn on 22 May 48. The sqn were based at Ramat David, to the southeast of Haifa, covering the final withdrawal of British Forces from Palestine following the declaration of the state of Israel on 14 May 48. Hostilities had already broken out between the Israelis and the surrounding Arab states, then on 22 May 48 at 0610 hrs two Egyptian LF9 Spitfires attacked the RAF base at Ramat David, presumably mistaking it for an Israeli base. The Spitfires strafed the Spitfire FR18s of 32 and 208 Sqns that were parked in two neat lines, destroying two and damaging another eight. Nobody was injured in the initial attack despite a number of bombs also being dropped on the airfield.
The majority of the pilots of 32 and 208 Sqns were recovering from a severe hangover when the initial attacked occurred, having enjoyed a particularly exuberant Dining In Night at which it had been decided that the Officers’ Mess would be burnt to the ground on the final departure to prevent it falling into the hands of the Israelis. After the initial attack two pilots of 208 Sqn (Fg Offs Geoff Cooper and Roy Bowie) got airborne in Spitfire FR18s and mounted a standing patrol over the airfield. At 0710 hrs three more Egyptian LF9 Spitfires returned to attack the airfield again, destroying a Dakota that was attempting to land, killing two of the crew. Cooper and Bowie shot down one Egyptian LF9 each, the third was shot down by the combined fire of two RAF Regiment Bren Gunners, Sgt Atkinson and AC Waind.
At 0930 two Egyptain LF9s decided to stage a third attack on Ramat David. This time Fg Tim Off McElhaw and Fg Off Hully of 208 Sqn had taken over the standing patrol. Fg Off McElhaw flying Spitfire FR18 TZ228 managed to intercept and shoot down both LF9s, despite this incident being the first time he had ever done any air-to-air firing. Tim McElhaw was later shot down himself by a Canadian flying a Spitfire LF9 for the Israelis - but that's another story.
Tim McElhaw is still alive, along with Roy Bowie – I have no idea what happened to Geoff Cooper after he retired as the aviation correspondent of the Daily Telegraph or Hully. The above details form part of an article I have written about the incidents involving the IAF and RAF in 1948/9 which should appear in Air Enthusiast early in the New Year.
Heimdall
www.spyflight.co.uk
Last edited by Heimdall; 6th Dec 2004 at 10:58.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was it a GR1 in GW1 or the Mighty Buccaneer
OK, so we are a bit off thread, but we have glanced into the last air-to-ground kill of an enemy aircraft and assumed that it was the GR1 with the Mig Eater logo! But can we be sure that this event happened after XX901 (a Buccaneer) trashed the Cub with a Paveway??
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/pics/gulfwar/gwbucs.htm
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/pics/gulfwar/gwbucs.htm
Since 'Mig Eater' hit the Fulcrum with JP233, and since (IIRC) the Buccs arrived after the transition from JP233 to medium level PGM use, then the Bucc 'kill' would have happened later. However, I think that the Cub was firmly on the ground at the time, whereas the MiG was in the process of taking off and may have been in flight when brought down: the Cub, as far as I'm aware, wasn't(?).
Suspicion breeds confidence
Archimedes, you may well be right, now I think more about it (that brain cell still functions) I think the F3 got hauled off by an American controller. I guess they didn't want the flying fin to score any points when an F15 was in the air.