B-52 bombs Blackbushe
SPHLC,
Though I didn't make it too clear before, I was referring to an incident that actually took place at Blackbushe (late '90's if memory serves.....)
Although I wasn't there, I don't think Albert actually landed from what I recall of the local gossip at the time.
Guess that means there is some other incident to which you refer....
Though I didn't make it too clear before, I was referring to an incident that actually took place at Blackbushe (late '90's if memory serves.....)
Although I wasn't there, I don't think Albert actually landed from what I recall of the local gossip at the time.
Guess that means there is some other incident to which you refer....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Milltown at Lossie still attracts the unwary.
East Kirkby collected the odd in bound to Coningsby in the 60s until the runway got a bit shabby.
East Kirkby collected the odd in bound to Coningsby in the 60s until the runway got a bit shabby.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like the USAF have still got trouble with European navigation. I remember the practice bombs released by F111's on a quarry near Otterburn that was foolish enough to fly red flags when the range was active and the TLP course where not a single F111 was seen near the first three targets and the AD guys could not get a shot at them because they were in the wrong part of Germany. In the latter case they compounded the felony by admitting that the error was in their 'war tapes' - as if that was a suitable excuse for gross inability.
At least they get it all precisely wrong - just like their intelligence.
At least they get it all precisely wrong - just like their intelligence.
Guest
Posts: n/a
It is great so see the majority of you being so narrow minded and petty. I am sure all you armchair generals know what is is like to fly hostile combat missions!!
We have a great deal to thank America for. Without them we would not have 'won' WW2, could not have financed the Falklands Campaign and would certainly not be Great Britain.
Do any of you think for one minute that the pilots of the aircraft relish the fact they have taken innocent civilian lives. I think not - and they will have to live with that fact for the rest of their lives.
Before you all level your unjust criticisms at other people, other nations and governments (regardless of now wrong their policies may be), take a closer look to home. We are no longer the so called Great Britain. There is nothing Great about it.
If you really want to criticise - try pointing the finger towards Tony Blair before he brings us all down.
We have a great deal to thank America for. Without them we would not have 'won' WW2, could not have financed the Falklands Campaign and would certainly not be Great Britain.
Do any of you think for one minute that the pilots of the aircraft relish the fact they have taken innocent civilian lives. I think not - and they will have to live with that fact for the rest of their lives.
Before you all level your unjust criticisms at other people, other nations and governments (regardless of now wrong their policies may be), take a closer look to home. We are no longer the so called Great Britain. There is nothing Great about it.
If you really want to criticise - try pointing the finger towards Tony Blair before he brings us all down.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Escape, you really have set out your credentials in your profile - we can only guess at what's behind your indignant rant.
Me? 38 years of RAF driving including several wars. You're right in saying that we don't relish killing people - it does not rest easy on the conscience, but most of us accept that it is what we were/are paid to do. Ever sit on 'Q' with a megaton bucket of sunshine nestling in the bombay? [Also knowing that there would be no-one in you family to come back to?].
The point of this thread is that fellow professionals are taking the p*ss big time out of a bunch of pillocks flying a well equiped jet who got it mightily wrong when it counted.
I remember one Brit bombing comp where a Buff crew dropped their radar bomb in the wrong county! And the dumb co-pilot saw the target slide past his starboard wingtip and said diddly-squat. Next day (Saturday) the crew were ordered by CinCSAC to refly the route and return to the States - and God could not help them if they did not return home with perfect scores!
Most of us have screwed up small or big time at some point in our careers - it's just that most of us did it out of sight of a mass gathering of the media and general public...
Me? 38 years of RAF driving including several wars. You're right in saying that we don't relish killing people - it does not rest easy on the conscience, but most of us accept that it is what we were/are paid to do. Ever sit on 'Q' with a megaton bucket of sunshine nestling in the bombay? [Also knowing that there would be no-one in you family to come back to?].
The point of this thread is that fellow professionals are taking the p*ss big time out of a bunch of pillocks flying a well equiped jet who got it mightily wrong when it counted.
I remember one Brit bombing comp where a Buff crew dropped their radar bomb in the wrong county! And the dumb co-pilot saw the target slide past his starboard wingtip and said diddly-squat. Next day (Saturday) the crew were ordered by CinCSAC to refly the route and return to the States - and God could not help them if they did not return home with perfect scores!
Most of us have screwed up small or big time at some point in our careers - it's just that most of us did it out of sight of a mass gathering of the media and general public...
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3450N 03226E
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FJJP
Wasn't it Double Top '81 when the USAF Bomb/Nav shop got their sums wrong on one of the targets and caused ALL their Buff crews to drop their bombs in a 50 foot bucket some miles in error? IMMSMR the bombardiers said that they didn't check the offsets on the grounds that they couldn't change them anyway............
The Farnboro "where's the destination" incident reminds me of the time when a group of us got a lift back to the UK from the USA in a USAF KC135. The newly qualified Navigatrix found recovering to a non-TACAN equipped base something of a challenge but didn't let that stop her trying to route us thru an active DA en-route!
We've all made mistakes but missing Farnborough takes the biscuit.
Wasn't it Double Top '81 when the USAF Bomb/Nav shop got their sums wrong on one of the targets and caused ALL their Buff crews to drop their bombs in a 50 foot bucket some miles in error? IMMSMR the bombardiers said that they didn't check the offsets on the grounds that they couldn't change them anyway............
The Farnboro "where's the destination" incident reminds me of the time when a group of us got a lift back to the UK from the USA in a USAF KC135. The newly qualified Navigatrix found recovering to a non-TACAN equipped base something of a challenge but didn't let that stop her trying to route us thru an active DA en-route!
We've all made mistakes but missing Farnborough takes the biscuit.
Funny enough this never happens to limey aircraft does it?
About 41/2 years ago saw it myself in San Diego. Visiting nimrod (what a silly name) transiting the mighty long flight from North Island naval air station to Miramar, about 20 miles if that. This guy hacked up the airspace in an attempt to find the initial for the overhead. It was soo bad he was sent away and told to get a proper briefing before ever coming back.
Naw, limeys are perrrfect, if you dont believe 'em just ask them.
About 41/2 years ago saw it myself in San Diego. Visiting nimrod (what a silly name) transiting the mighty long flight from North Island naval air station to Miramar, about 20 miles if that. This guy hacked up the airspace in an attempt to find the initial for the overhead. It was soo bad he was sent away and told to get a proper briefing before ever coming back.
Naw, limeys are perrrfect, if you dont believe 'em just ask them.
Now...Now West Coast....no since being rude.....be the good gentleman and let our brothers from across the Salt Water Divide enjoy their fun. The BUFF crew did invite this upon themselves....after all....to find yourself performing at an airshow without an audience deserves some critical banter.
After all....they are right...."Over paid, over sexed, and over here!" was true too.....they just never wish to offer the other half of that saying...."The English....under paid, under sexed, and .....under Eisenhower!" I reckon some of the landed gentry of the realm take offense at having to invite USAF aircraft to the airshows.....and understandably so. Without the outsiders...why it would be a very small affair if they had to depend upon the home team to provide its airplane.
Or...is it a leased bird from the USAF.....? I forget.
After all....they are right...."Over paid, over sexed, and over here!" was true too.....they just never wish to offer the other half of that saying...."The English....under paid, under sexed, and .....under Eisenhower!" I reckon some of the landed gentry of the realm take offense at having to invite USAF aircraft to the airshows.....and understandably so. Without the outsiders...why it would be a very small affair if they had to depend upon the home team to provide its airplane.
Or...is it a leased bird from the USAF.....? I forget.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blackbushe and Farnborough Confusion
Perhaps Blackbushe has kept a count on the increasing number of time it has been confused with Farnborough,
Here is another humorous account from the 50s when I was doing ETPS at Farnborough.
From Memoirs
Confusion often occurred with air traffic control instructions despite the care taken by the controllers to use standard words and phrases with clear English diction for the benefit of foreigners on ETPS courses..
It was not uncommon for pilots to mistake Blackbushe, the civil airfield 10 miles from Farnborough, for home base. I found myself doing an initial approach on Blackbushe one misty afternoon. I soon recognised my error as the layout of the airfield became clear. Not so with the Egyptian, Vickery Zarr, He followed through to land and when he went to turn off the runway on to a taxiway with which he was familiar at Farnborough, the resultant radio chatter became really hilarious.
It was normal practice under these circumstances for Farnborough to retain control over the offending pilot whilst liaising with Blackbushe over a telephone tie-line. So those of us on the same frequency became party to a fascinating sequence of instructions and responses.
Blackbushe was base to a fleet of civil Ambassador type aircraft and it became obvious that one of these was preparing for take off at the holding point when Farnborough said to Vickery " Take the next runway exit left and then the taxiway back to the holding point." Vickery said " I do not understand where I am and what I should do. I have some fuel left and can fly again for 20 minutes." Farnborough came back with "Roger, taxi straight ahead to the Ambassador." Vickery did not respond so Farnborough repeated the instruction. Vickery then came back in a faltering voice with "Please, please, I do not er er I do not wish to see the Ambassador today."
One of the tutors on the radio broke in with " Vickery you idiot, he means the Ambassador aircraft waiting for take off at the holding point." Meanwhile the rest of us had convulsions of laughter at the expense of the hapless and confused Egyptian.
We Australians were sometimes confused by different meanings given to words. The RAE were experimenting with a rapidly configurable inflatable aircraft capable of being carried around on a light road vehicle. The wings were inflatable and normally folded into a container. The engine was fitted with a small air compressor which inflated the wings and fuselage to maintain form and strength of its delta shape. Some intrepid test pilot would occasionally take it for a flight. The craft was always referred to by the British as the Durex Delta. This to us conceptualised a delta aircraft held together by Durex brand transparent sticky tape as marketed in Australia at the time. But the British did not have Durex sticky tape. Their Durex was a brand of condom.
I soon learned about this when my comments in mixed company one evening about having seen the Durex delta flying that day were followed by someone repeatedly kicking me in the shins beneath the table.
Flying in the northern hemisphere often puzzled me as I found I was less able to instinctively know where north should be. I had to take extra care to refresh my orientation with the compass. To this day I am unable to specify the basis for having some in-built directional capacity whilst in the southern hemisphere.
Perhaps Blackbushe has kept a count on the increasing number of time it has been confused with Farnborough,
Here is another humorous account from the 50s when I was doing ETPS at Farnborough.
From Memoirs
Confusion often occurred with air traffic control instructions despite the care taken by the controllers to use standard words and phrases with clear English diction for the benefit of foreigners on ETPS courses..
It was not uncommon for pilots to mistake Blackbushe, the civil airfield 10 miles from Farnborough, for home base. I found myself doing an initial approach on Blackbushe one misty afternoon. I soon recognised my error as the layout of the airfield became clear. Not so with the Egyptian, Vickery Zarr, He followed through to land and when he went to turn off the runway on to a taxiway with which he was familiar at Farnborough, the resultant radio chatter became really hilarious.
It was normal practice under these circumstances for Farnborough to retain control over the offending pilot whilst liaising with Blackbushe over a telephone tie-line. So those of us on the same frequency became party to a fascinating sequence of instructions and responses.
Blackbushe was base to a fleet of civil Ambassador type aircraft and it became obvious that one of these was preparing for take off at the holding point when Farnborough said to Vickery " Take the next runway exit left and then the taxiway back to the holding point." Vickery said " I do not understand where I am and what I should do. I have some fuel left and can fly again for 20 minutes." Farnborough came back with "Roger, taxi straight ahead to the Ambassador." Vickery did not respond so Farnborough repeated the instruction. Vickery then came back in a faltering voice with "Please, please, I do not er er I do not wish to see the Ambassador today."
One of the tutors on the radio broke in with " Vickery you idiot, he means the Ambassador aircraft waiting for take off at the holding point." Meanwhile the rest of us had convulsions of laughter at the expense of the hapless and confused Egyptian.
We Australians were sometimes confused by different meanings given to words. The RAE were experimenting with a rapidly configurable inflatable aircraft capable of being carried around on a light road vehicle. The wings were inflatable and normally folded into a container. The engine was fitted with a small air compressor which inflated the wings and fuselage to maintain form and strength of its delta shape. Some intrepid test pilot would occasionally take it for a flight. The craft was always referred to by the British as the Durex Delta. This to us conceptualised a delta aircraft held together by Durex brand transparent sticky tape as marketed in Australia at the time. But the British did not have Durex sticky tape. Their Durex was a brand of condom.
I soon learned about this when my comments in mixed company one evening about having seen the Durex delta flying that day were followed by someone repeatedly kicking me in the shins beneath the table.
Flying in the northern hemisphere often puzzled me as I found I was less able to instinctively know where north should be. I had to take extra care to refresh my orientation with the compass. To this day I am unable to specify the basis for having some in-built directional capacity whilst in the southern hemisphere.
Nixor ut Ledo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a Beaut of a State
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
West Coast - your raw nerve is showing badly.
Yes, everyone makes cock-ups. However, with the march of technology these cock-ups should become fewer and fewer.
I presume that the Buff has GPS capability; Farnborough also has a published lat/long and identifier. I would also presume that, on a flight from the States, the GPS would, most likely, have been one of the primary nav instruments. So, either the nav programmed the GPS incorrectly or it was programmed correctly but someone chose not to believe it on arrival and opted for what they thought was Farnborough courtesy of the Mk 1 eyeball. Either way it shows a degree of unprofessionalism conducted in the full glare of publicity.
So, in the absence of a reasoned explanation from those involved this thread will now degenerate into a "Boo hoo, stop picking on us" from WC coupled with a ....Brit aircraft did this at that location...and countered by....American aircraft (x1000) did this at that location...etc etc
Yes, everyone makes cock-ups. However, with the march of technology these cock-ups should become fewer and fewer.
I presume that the Buff has GPS capability; Farnborough also has a published lat/long and identifier. I would also presume that, on a flight from the States, the GPS would, most likely, have been one of the primary nav instruments. So, either the nav programmed the GPS incorrectly or it was programmed correctly but someone chose not to believe it on arrival and opted for what they thought was Farnborough courtesy of the Mk 1 eyeball. Either way it shows a degree of unprofessionalism conducted in the full glare of publicity.
So, in the absence of a reasoned explanation from those involved this thread will now degenerate into a "Boo hoo, stop picking on us" from WC coupled with a ....Brit aircraft did this at that location...and countered by....American aircraft (x1000) did this at that location...etc etc
Hey West Coast, it's ok. A big debate might not solve anything.
I stand corrected at least twice on previous pages, but it might help us all to avoid any political motivations on Pprune. These are splashed all over the media every day. Even Texas-bashing (but not Arkansas-the Clintons' home turf...) is now in vogue, but certainly not on Pprune.........
My only point, despite the very embarassing mistakes made by the crew, is to wonder whether the two (or three?) B-52 pilots had any disagreements between them about which airfield was the correct one? It is difficult to imagine that an all-night flight or any long mission could result in major fatigue issues... They will probably be much more reliable and thorough while navigating in the future compared to the many pilots who know that it could never happen to them, even over unfamiliar landscape.
How was the crew's CRM? It is tempting to believe the more experienced crewmember (also usually 'in command'). But we have never been tempted by what we see outside-oh noooo. I once quickly verified with a tower controller that we were lined up at night on the correct runway at a fairly unfamiliar airport (ABQ?), possibly with an unreliable localizer, or just an inexact VOR radial. The Captain was a little irked for a moment that I even questioned it. This paid off a few years later in Portland where a parallel runway was very hard for the Captain to see. A Pensacola Approach controller had us on about a seven mile final at Hurlburt AFB-the controller believed that we were on final for Eglin AFB (Ft. Walton Beach), or simply forgot our destination due to heavy Navy Training Command and various civilian traffic nearby! Luckily, we knew that most of Eglin is west of the north-south runway, but Hurlburt AFB is the opposite. By the way, can any Jepp. 10-9 ground charts of Biggs AAF or El Paso be made available here?
I stand corrected at least twice on previous pages, but it might help us all to avoid any political motivations on Pprune. These are splashed all over the media every day. Even Texas-bashing (but not Arkansas-the Clintons' home turf...) is now in vogue, but certainly not on Pprune.........
My only point, despite the very embarassing mistakes made by the crew, is to wonder whether the two (or three?) B-52 pilots had any disagreements between them about which airfield was the correct one? It is difficult to imagine that an all-night flight or any long mission could result in major fatigue issues... They will probably be much more reliable and thorough while navigating in the future compared to the many pilots who know that it could never happen to them, even over unfamiliar landscape.
How was the crew's CRM? It is tempting to believe the more experienced crewmember (also usually 'in command'). But we have never been tempted by what we see outside-oh noooo. I once quickly verified with a tower controller that we were lined up at night on the correct runway at a fairly unfamiliar airport (ABQ?), possibly with an unreliable localizer, or just an inexact VOR radial. The Captain was a little irked for a moment that I even questioned it. This paid off a few years later in Portland where a parallel runway was very hard for the Captain to see. A Pensacola Approach controller had us on about a seven mile final at Hurlburt AFB-the controller believed that we were on final for Eglin AFB (Ft. Walton Beach), or simply forgot our destination due to heavy Navy Training Command and various civilian traffic nearby! Luckily, we knew that most of Eglin is west of the north-south runway, but Hurlburt AFB is the opposite. By the way, can any Jepp. 10-9 ground charts of Biggs AAF or El Paso be made available here?
Last edited by Ignition Override; 23rd Jul 2004 at 01:53.
I'm sure the buff did have GPS, perhaps the same model the Royal Marines (mis)used on a certain waterway aboard the now Iranian flagged small boat flotilla.
Bad nav, its not just for American airmen anymore.
Can't help but notice the kind words and sympathy many of you have for the jag pilot who damaged his aircraft. Little of that same love for this crew who gooned up to a far lesser degree but in a public venue.
Bad nav, its not just for American airmen anymore.
Can't help but notice the kind words and sympathy many of you have for the jag pilot who damaged his aircraft. Little of that same love for this crew who gooned up to a far lesser degree but in a public venue.
Last edited by West Coast; 22nd Jul 2004 at 05:52.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sydney
Age: 54
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Milt,
I always thought it had a lot to do with the fact that the sun in in the northern hemisphere is always ever so slightly to the south as it transits through the sky - vice versa in the southern hemisphere.
So when you are walking flying northwards in Oz, you are flying towards the sun... if flying northwards in the UK, the sun is behind you (assuming the sun is out, and not covered by clouds)
FH
Flying in the northern hemisphere often puzzled me as I found I was less able to instinctively know where north should be
So when you are walking flying northwards in Oz, you are flying towards the sun... if flying northwards in the UK, the sun is behind you (assuming the sun is out, and not covered by clouds)
FH
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
dungfennel,
And another one rises to the bait.
5-6 miles error per hour was par for the early bomb nav systems. Correcting the system by astro navigation, over the sea, produced 'good' accuracy of about 5 miles. In competition stuff it was possible to get 400 yards or thereabouts as Bob Tompkin's did once in a Vulcan on the SAC Bomb Competition.
This was strictly selef-contained steam age navigation.
If you were dropping a pait of 25mt's then it was good enough for government work, especially if nos 2/3 were criss-crossing.
Dropping 108k of steel needed a bit better accuracy but a 3 ship could still manage a fair bit of jungle clearance with danger from falling branches. That's tongue in ceek too.
And another one rises to the bait.
5-6 miles error per hour was par for the early bomb nav systems. Correcting the system by astro navigation, over the sea, produced 'good' accuracy of about 5 miles. In competition stuff it was possible to get 400 yards or thereabouts as Bob Tompkin's did once in a Vulcan on the SAC Bomb Competition.
This was strictly selef-contained steam age navigation.
If you were dropping a pait of 25mt's then it was good enough for government work, especially if nos 2/3 were criss-crossing.
Dropping 108k of steel needed a bit better accuracy but a 3 ship could still manage a fair bit of jungle clearance with danger from falling branches. That's tongue in ceek too.
Westie - I'm sure that our ancestors were very grateful for the "Oversexed, overpaid and over here" folk in WW2. Far better than ending up "Undersexed, underpaid and under Hitler" which is what might have happened had all those brave guys not been here to help kick Nazi ass........
The Buff at Blackbushe incident was a screw up - but the only real damage was to the crew's pride. Whereas the Jag incident was very nearly fatal and I cannot find anything to forgive in it.
And anyone who launches off to Miramar (guess that was back in 'Fightertown' days?) without having read the brief very carefully deserves little sympathy. Same goes for entry procedures for places like China Lake.
Mind you, being instructed to park our 4-jet "On the quarterdeck" at Miramar did have us guessing back in the mid-'80s!
As for 'Nimrod', the name comes from the 'Mighty Hunter' of classic legend. It was chosen for the aircraft due to its principal role as a submarine hunter. And you lot pinched the name 'Viking' for your sub hunter from us - although our Viking was a chubby little twin prop airliner of the early '50s
The Buff at Blackbushe incident was a screw up - but the only real damage was to the crew's pride. Whereas the Jag incident was very nearly fatal and I cannot find anything to forgive in it.
And anyone who launches off to Miramar (guess that was back in 'Fightertown' days?) without having read the brief very carefully deserves little sympathy. Same goes for entry procedures for places like China Lake.
Mind you, being instructed to park our 4-jet "On the quarterdeck" at Miramar did have us guessing back in the mid-'80s!
As for 'Nimrod', the name comes from the 'Mighty Hunter' of classic legend. It was chosen for the aircraft due to its principal role as a submarine hunter. And you lot pinched the name 'Viking' for your sub hunter from us - although our Viking was a chubby little twin prop airliner of the early '50s
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
West Coast,
First you should ask "Did the Iranians have GPS?" That will solve the puzzle.
Going on to nav boobs. I gave my offsets to a colleague withou finding out why I missed Watertown by 17 miles. I found out later as he had to explain to the AOC (2*) why he missed by 18 miles.
Then there was our immaculate NDB hold and landing at Tehran Merabad. OK we landed fine and flew a perfect hold. Only thing was the beacon was u/s big time - we lied.
Then the crossing of the pond 60 miles south of track the whole way. Our excuse was that the US Comcen would not accept a handwritten CA48 and the guy who wrote and typed it for us thought we would be flying 60 miles north of our planned route.
Or the VC10 that violated Greenland airspace - several hundred miles off track.
All been there, seen it, done, got the T-shirt, written the book, and been b*ll*cked where appropriate. We talk about it, like crew room banter, and learn from the old hand (like what I am myself 43 years and counting).
Back to the Buff in the bomb comp, I guess late 60's. Closest was 5,100 feet. Worst simply missed the turn and went passed Holbeach when he should have approached Wainfleet. The middle one hacked the target but was outside time and tracking limits. He did a screaming Jzus, as best you can in a Buff and most impresive, crossing over the target wings level, bomb-doors open, just 90 deg off track. Most impressive.
And last shot. Did a fly-past at Coltishall in the Lancaster, rolled off set heading for Gaydon and found we could not make the gate as the Group timings were wrong and we had not flight planned ourselves (no time). What spepd do you need said the WWII ace. Too fast I replied. What do you need, I'll tell you if its too fast. 250k.
We scorched across to Gaydon at 250k in the 'young' Lanc, only 23 years old then, and got to Gaydon on time. Only thing is we could not find Gaydon in the murk. Came in from the West!
So we all do it. OK Beags, your turn <g>
First you should ask "Did the Iranians have GPS?" That will solve the puzzle.
Going on to nav boobs. I gave my offsets to a colleague withou finding out why I missed Watertown by 17 miles. I found out later as he had to explain to the AOC (2*) why he missed by 18 miles.
Then there was our immaculate NDB hold and landing at Tehran Merabad. OK we landed fine and flew a perfect hold. Only thing was the beacon was u/s big time - we lied.
Then the crossing of the pond 60 miles south of track the whole way. Our excuse was that the US Comcen would not accept a handwritten CA48 and the guy who wrote and typed it for us thought we would be flying 60 miles north of our planned route.
Or the VC10 that violated Greenland airspace - several hundred miles off track.
All been there, seen it, done, got the T-shirt, written the book, and been b*ll*cked where appropriate. We talk about it, like crew room banter, and learn from the old hand (like what I am myself 43 years and counting).
Back to the Buff in the bomb comp, I guess late 60's. Closest was 5,100 feet. Worst simply missed the turn and went passed Holbeach when he should have approached Wainfleet. The middle one hacked the target but was outside time and tracking limits. He did a screaming Jzus, as best you can in a Buff and most impresive, crossing over the target wings level, bomb-doors open, just 90 deg off track. Most impressive.
And last shot. Did a fly-past at Coltishall in the Lancaster, rolled off set heading for Gaydon and found we could not make the gate as the Group timings were wrong and we had not flight planned ourselves (no time). What spepd do you need said the WWII ace. Too fast I replied. What do you need, I'll tell you if its too fast. 250k.
We scorched across to Gaydon at 250k in the 'young' Lanc, only 23 years old then, and got to Gaydon on time. Only thing is we could not find Gaydon in the murk. Came in from the West!
So we all do it. OK Beags, your turn <g>
The Vulcan radar who did an immaculate Int Aids approach....on Hemswell, not Scampton.
Several JP students who annoyed Dishforth instead of flying circuits at Leeming.
The 2 QFIs who flew their JP through Pembrey range between the tip-in point and the target with a Hunter flying hot strafe at the time. A quick bit of detective work by the RSO (me - guesting for the day) - and a quick call to St Mawgan with their spoof bombing score just as they were landing was sufficient embarrassment.
The Finningley JP navigator instructor pilot who appeared over the top of the nuclear weapons store at Scampton, then did a quick 180 hoping nobody had noticed. All those Vulcans should have given the clue that it wasn't Blyton.
The Buccaneer pilot who led a 4-ship through a live drop zone - only realiesd his error when he spotter a Landrover falling from the heavens in front of him....
The Hunter pilot who led a 4-ship right over Gatwick. Now flies for Cathay.
Another Hunter pilot who mistook Withybush for Brawdy and went over the top at 450 knots. Fortunately they didn't complain - but the Irish did when a different Hunter pilot was lost over Eire thinking he was over Wales...
Hands up who hasn't.......
Several JP students who annoyed Dishforth instead of flying circuits at Leeming.
The 2 QFIs who flew their JP through Pembrey range between the tip-in point and the target with a Hunter flying hot strafe at the time. A quick bit of detective work by the RSO (me - guesting for the day) - and a quick call to St Mawgan with their spoof bombing score just as they were landing was sufficient embarrassment.
The Finningley JP navigator instructor pilot who appeared over the top of the nuclear weapons store at Scampton, then did a quick 180 hoping nobody had noticed. All those Vulcans should have given the clue that it wasn't Blyton.
The Buccaneer pilot who led a 4-ship through a live drop zone - only realiesd his error when he spotter a Landrover falling from the heavens in front of him....
The Hunter pilot who led a 4-ship right over Gatwick. Now flies for Cathay.
Another Hunter pilot who mistook Withybush for Brawdy and went over the top at 450 knots. Fortunately they didn't complain - but the Irish did when a different Hunter pilot was lost over Eire thinking he was over Wales...
Hands up who hasn't.......
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A stn cdr (nav), doing his once-monthly sortie (unfortunately during a Taceval), took a four-ship through an active Suippes (sp?) Range in France. 'What a terrific golf course. Oh look, I think someone's shooting at us!'
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are we quite sure the BUFF made it to Brize and didn't end up popping into Oxford for tea and scones? Mind you, a handy place to brush up on nav techniques.
Perhaps this is why you make so much use of 'smart' munitions these days?
PS. Loved the gag about McDonalds and the NG - very good.
Perhaps this is why you make so much use of 'smart' munitions these days?
PS. Loved the gag about McDonalds and the NG - very good.
I was at Blackbushe in 1996 when a US Army Apache did almost the same thing. I think it was before displaying had started and was during arrivals week, but he realised his error about half mile final and made a sharp turn towards F'Boro! Was only just above tree top level IIRC...........could have had a free landing fee if he said he was visiting the car auctions!