Military AircrewA forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
Couldn't agree more - While a skilled operator will get more out of an F3 than a numpty the numpty can still survive. In an F4 the numpties dropped out early.
Four tours F4 and 2 tours F3 - I reckon I could still make the old grey goose sing a sweeter tune than the fin!
As for Buccs being too low to kill there is some truth in that but I think you had to be below 56 feet to be really safe. Favoured trick was just to fly straight over the top with the gun spewing out 20mm at 6000 rounds per minute. Bullets don't worry about fuzing heights or guidance or chaff or decoys - so why do we keep taking the guns out of fighters?
Happy days - I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was
SmartMan Oh they were certainly some fun sorties - much better fun against Bucc than Jag - something to do with that second set of eyes I guess. Of course, at least we always knew that you wouldn't be shooting back (other than knickers)! Those were the days!
Anyone remember the "Scottish Group Captain"?(OC RAF Leuchars)
It was a round of beer for the entire bar if you mentioned his name anywhere in the Air Force and, after over 2 tours at Leuchars, I was asked who he was...didn't know!!
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 15,740
Actually, although he was an unpleasant motherf*cker, he did at least kick arse down at Binnsworth and that helped the military accreditation for civil licences thing get going......
A good height, Impiger - nice digits.
About the only thing I could do on the F4 was air-to-air mit bullets. Chewed up the flag pretty well at APC, I did! And even savaged some East Coast range once with 52% and Griggles in the back. Then bounced Scratchdick on his Tac Check on the way home, catching them as planned in the frequency changing faff between Useless Radar and Neat - oooh, was revenge sweet or what!
Say what you like about the "Scottish Group Captain" but once he got promoted to really useful rank he was/is a star. His paperwork and staff work were pure genius and his dedication to the service and the task was beyond reproach. Shame his relationship with the sharp end was not so good but I don't think flying was really his forte. He is the living proof that you don't need to be a good fighter pilot to be a good staff officer.
I can't believe people are saying nice things about Ba .... erm ... the Scottish Group Captain! Anyway, shouldn't we be speaing about the mighty F4 rather than people who weren't even very good at operating them (Nasty Nigel anyone)?
Did anybody ever see the Saunders Island photo gallery? Does anyone have any video footage from Mt Alice? Anyone care to talk about the F4 from Wattisham that hit the ground during a flypast and got back to base? Did anyone actually try dragging the hook through the sea? Anyone like to claim an altitude record? How about the highest accidental overG? Come on, don't be shy!
I wasn't at the controls merely hanging on for grim death in the back when the clock finally stopped winding up at around 52,000 in a clean F4J(UK). Amazing how you don't realise that pressure breathing has kicked in when you're concentrating on what the fcuk the nose gunner thinks he's up to!
One day, at a much lower level after an engine air test, I went sight-seeing around the west of Scotland, and en route back to Leuchars very low in Glen Tay, with the bit between the teeth, a sudden very loud bang caught both of our attentions. No lights illuminated, and no handling difficulties were apparent, although on a slow speed check, it all seemed quite lively.
Taxiing in, the sailors were all pointing at the aircraft in curiosity and amusement which was explained when I climbed out. A large amount of metal in the form of tanks, pylons and dummy missiles was gorn. 6 o'clock 200 yards on the Tyndrum Hotel. Made the TV news etc. One of the looms had frayed firing all the ERU's.
Twice had runaway gun at Deci which caused concern, but no injuries.
I've seen 60,000 plus after a high speed run on completion of an op-shoot at Akrotiri. I was too stupid to realise why he beast and its AEA had a 50,000ft limit. I've also seen 825 indicated. Another woops.
A friend of mine saw what he though was an oil-slick off the Falklands. He went to investigate, and it turned out to be a flock of albatroses sitting on the water. They got airborne and he pulled an estimated 12 G to avoid them. The fletchers got bent, but the jet was back on the line a couple of days later after some checks. It was a tough bird.
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 15,740
Did see rather a lot of IAS when pitching back against a GAF F-4.....as Impiger knows.
Also saw rather more AoA than IAS when going up looking back over my shoulder at one of Alconbury's finest trying to track me... Amazing how noisy the pedal shaker can be on such occasions. Select mil power, 19 units and wait - but she came out just fine! F-5 driver didn't get to chant "Atoll....Atoll" either!
Anybody remember the Robinson Loop? Used to teach it in the early days on 228 OCU until some dilligent chap looked carefully at the Release to Service. It was the school solution to min time 180 turns - if below 450kts one rolled rapidly to 135 deg bank angle in full burner and pulled 19 AOA until achieving 8.5G, then controlled bank angle with rudder maintaining 19AOA/8.5G until the reciprocal was reached. If above 450kts, one rolled to 45 deg bank and pulled 8.5G until approaching 19AOA. With skillful anticipation, one then overbanked with rudder using full burner to maintain 450/8.5G until the reciprocal was reached.
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