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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 11th Oct 2017, 10:15   #1 (permalink)


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Thumbs down EK - Don't do it!

Been holding my tongue here for too long but feel like I am going to explode. So I wanted to warn young new players away from looking at EK as a career choice.

What I wanted to warn people of is the complete miss alignment between the headline sales pitch that is put to you and the reality of the job in terms of what to expect for coverage of Education, Medical and Accomodation.

There are definitions and exclusion, there are the fine details etc and sure you can be reasonably expected to read and expect them to be complied with.

What is not on the sales brochure is the fact that things can change at a moments notice away from the terms you signed up for under your contract, and there is nothing you can do about it.

In the last 12 months, there have been several signification changes for example.

1. Commands are now limited by age. So if you joined young looking for a command after the generally discussed experience levels. Forget it... they just moved the goal posts and you are screwed.

2. They capped the medical claim per consultation. So a general consultation is capped with complete disregard to the time and expertise involved in the consultation. So for example a 5 minute GP consultation has the same cap as a 60 minute session with specialest. Never mind that one session takes 5 minuets and one takes 60 and is specialised. If they are not applying medical services on top of the procedure, then the service is capped at a rate that covers nothing. Crazy... but means that you can be out of pocket for huge $ if you are unlucky enough to require consultations about the low cap.

3. The ability to opt out of the accomodation scheme now means that if you have any commitment to the region you will also not have the ability to define the living conditions you experience. Not living in company accommodation or at least having the flexibility to chose is no longer an option. This is very significant if you have plans to live outside the hive.

4. Cost of living in DXB. Super hard to anticipate before you arrive, but without putting too finer point on it... EVERYTHING costs WAY more than you could expect. From processing fees for government services, groceries, access to services of any professional nature, not to mention the things that are not covered by Education, Medical, and Allowance that you expected would be covered. EVERYTHING cost more and is going up at amazing rates... super hard to anticipate just how out of pocket you will be.

5. Professionally. Not going to say a lot here, but lets just say that the culture of fear that infests the place is taking a serious toll on all those involved. There is a tremendous amount of potential for this place to be a great place to work. Currently it is far from this...
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 17:56   #2 (permalink)


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Originally Posted by CaptainOldSchool View Post
Been holding my tongue here for too long but feel like I am going to explode. So I wanted to warn young new players away from looking at EK as a career choice.

What I wanted to warn people of is the complete miss alignment between the headline sales pitch that is put to you and the reality of the job in terms of what to expect for coverage of Education, Medical and Accomodation.

There are definitions and exclusion, there are the fine details etc and sure you can be reasonably expected to read and expect them to be complied with.

What is not on the sales brochure is the fact that things can change at a moments notice away from the terms you signed up for under your contract, and there is nothing you can do about it.

In the last 12 months, there have been several signification changes for example.

1. Commands are now limited by age. So if you joined young looking for a command after the generally discussed experience levels. Forget it... they just moved the goal posts and you are screwed.

2. They capped the medical claim per consultation. So a general consultation is capped with complete disregard to the time and expertise involved in the consultation. So for example a 5 minute GP consultation has the same cap as a 60 minute session with specialest. Never mind that one session takes 5 minuets and one takes 60 and is specialised. If they are not applying medical services on top of the procedure, then the service is capped at a rate that covers nothing. Crazy... but means that you can be out of pocket for huge $ if you are unlucky enough to require consultations about the low cap.

3. The ability to opt out of the accomodation scheme now means that if you have any commitment to the region you will also not have the ability to define the living conditions you experience. Not living in company accommodation or at least having the flexibility to chose is no longer an option. This is very significant if you have plans to live outside the hive.

4. Cost of living in DXB. Super hard to anticipate before you arrive, but without putting too finer point on it... EVERYTHING costs WAY more than you could expect. From processing fees for government services, groceries, access to services of any professional nature, not to mention the things that are not covered by Education, Medical, and Allowance that you expected would be covered. EVERYTHING cost more and is going up at amazing rates... super hard to anticipate just how out of pocket you will be.

5. Professionally. Not going to say a lot here, but lets just say that the culture of fear that infests the place is taking a serious toll on all those involved. There is a tremendous amount of potential for this place to be a great place to work. Currently it is far from this...
1. Thats been here for a year now? Old news.

2. Who sincerely cares. This will affect a very small part

3. Opting out is still possible just not renting. Read rich dad, poor dad and you can still make buckets of money while buying property.

P.S. most company accommodation is nice.

4. Unmarried single guys can easily save up 3000 dollars a month and probably more. I can do it while married.

5. More professional than low cost where most young guys come from.

Dance baby

Last edited by Airdancer; 11th Oct 2017 at 18:31.
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 21:03   #3 (permalink)


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Airdancer =Management troll or extremely high on coolaide
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 22:42   #4 (permalink)
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Surely the salary is sufficient for you to have private medical insurance for you and your family? Spent nearly ten years in the Gulf, carried my own insurance throughout, having looked at and discounted the insurance offered by the company, (Not EK).
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 23:15   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
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At one of their roadshows I attended, they did say that the accommodation allowance (for your own housing ) was available. However , you had to decide pretty much on the first day of joining , wether you wished to take Co. provided acc or opt out.

Has this changed?

Like most traditional expat jobs, the EK terms n conditions are in unassailable decline . Or more accurately simply have not risen to counter the massive cost rises in Dubai.

I was scared off by the admission by the recruiters that 90 hours was a normal roster . And the pay scale reflected this. Take off monthly allowances and its not a great salry to be an expat and all the heartache this can lead too.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 01:16   #6 (permalink)


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Originally Posted by Skylark737 View Post
Airdancer =Management troll or extremely high on coolaide
Just a straight guy on RHS done with the BS being sold on PPRuNe. You'll be surprised how much PPRuNe affects people and stop them from applying. I'm still happy I never read this toxic forum because I'd be gullible enough not to apply 2 years ago and miss out on something much better than I was working for.

There are plenty of young guys and gals who would be happy with the conditions offered by EK/EY/QR yet most of them don't apply because of the toxicity on this forum. Not saying everything being said is a lie but it almost feels that people here hate young guys and want them not to apply...
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 02:40   #7 (permalink)
 
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Coolaide!!
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 04:58   #8 (permalink)
 
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Definately on something anyway!! Just done a couple of years here and honestly although life isn't as bad as some make out, I wouldn't make the choice to come here again, no chance.

For someone to say that point No 2 about the medical is a "who cares" point says a lot about the posters grasp of reality.

Medical in EK is not like any other company I've worked for, like a lot of stuff here its self regulated. Its the worst I've seen. Theres practically no cover outside of Dubai, so get your leg cut off in the nations capital, Abu Dhabi you have to hop to Dubai to get it back on!! Most major companies here have proper medical insurance that you can take anywhere, even if its just proper cover in the UAE, not at EK. Direct billing is becoming less and less as the hospitals are fed up dealing with these people.

Why is it if you have a pulled muscle the first thing they want to do is an alcohol test........

The days of making money in property in Dubai are long gone, you'd need your head tested to invest here right now, but then again the medical cover wouldn't cover it......
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 05:00   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Troll alert or better: it would seem that, consistent with his last email, AAR has truly found his way to the ME forum! Welcome...
After the latest acid test email, thankfully leaked out over here, one has to carefully assess if one wants to risk his/her career by joining EK.
Never mind the state or future of Dubai and the company, do you really want to join an airline where everything (yes everything!) you do in the sim or on the line is graded and will be used against you and where there is nill room to make mistakes? (and yes, we all know that regulatory checks are part of this business)...

Today, I would never ever join EK, even if I would be desperate!
And that is the message I give to my mates...

And maybe the 'acid environment' is starting to slowly bite EK back...
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 05:14   #10 (permalink)
 
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5Star - I think you may be right about air prancer.

He/She writes -
Quote:
Just a straight guy on RHS done with the BS being sold on PPRuNe. .
Yet here he/she says
Quote:
Hmm is that why I have 40h this month with leave? 777 LHS
A total of all of 11 posts - all koolaid laced. hmmmmm
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 05:48   #11 (permalink)


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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
5Star - I think you may be right about air prancer.

He/She writes -

Yet here he/she says

A total of all of 11 posts - all koolaid laced. hmmmmm
Mistyped the LHS, sorry we all make mistakes. Oh sorry only the young ones haha.

Anyway call me a troll, call me management. I'm neither. As the starter of this thread, I waited long enough but now I'm done listening to all the negativity here.

Btw what is koolaid? Seems to be American? Are you guys all american? Didn't pay tax and now your stuck and miserable?
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 05:49   #12 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
5Star - I think you may be right about air prancer.

He/She writes -

Yet here he/she says

A total of all of 11 posts - all koolaid laced. hmmmmm
Oh that is brilliant.....well done Capn

Quote:
2. Who sincerely cares. This will affect a very small part
Prancer, lets hope you don't fall foul to a serious medical issue that requires specialist intervention. That "very small part" consists of colleagues that may well be suffering both financially and emotionally....but hey, who cares!
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:30   #13 (permalink)


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Oh that is brilliant.....well done Capn



Prancer, lets hope you don't fall foul to a serious medical issue that requires specialist intervention. That "very small part" consists of colleagues that may well be suffering both financially and emotionally....but hey, who cares!
Pilots don't care about their colleagues. That's very clear here as we openly attack people. Why would I be any different?
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 07:38   #14 (permalink)
 
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Therefore you condone that type of behaviour? Lots of smoke and mirrors from you. Gotta be management, or new...��
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 08:15   #15 (permalink)


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Therefore you condone that type of behaviour? Lots of smoke and mirrors from you. Gotta be management, or new...��
There is a difference between accepting and tagging along. If it was up to me we'd all like each other but the business were in does not allow for normal friendly behaviour between colleagues. Only business in the world colleagues get destroyed openly on social media and we would rather see the guy fail at a job interview so you can get that job, even if it's a close mate/colleague. We're all selfish.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 09:05   #16 (permalink)
 
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Only business in the world colleagues get destroyed openly on social media and we would rather see the guy fail at a job interview so you can get that job, even if it's a close mate/colleague. We're all selfish.
And that tells you all you need to know about Airdancer
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 10:22   #17 (permalink)


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And that tells you all you need to know about Airdancer
You're a whole new level of stupid.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 11:31   #18 (permalink)
 
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quod erat demonstrandum
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 12:15   #19 (permalink)
 
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Seriously some of you need to get a life. If someone is happy here then good on them. Why make it your personal mission to abuse them on PPRuNe. Maybe instead of sitting here complaining all day, go and shag your wife or study for your surprise line check that could be tomorrow
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 14:02   #20 (permalink)
 
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There is no doubt there are many issues at EK (there always have been) but if someone is happy working there (and it does suit some) then why do they need to be abused for that.

After all, if you dont like it then leave - slagging off other people for being happy isnt very healthy.
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