Captain 330/340 transfer policy
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the amount of abuse the 330/340 people have received is appalling. but why am i surprised. the rules of the game here change daily.
at least the 310 folks got to pick their equipment, as i recall
as posters above had said, the experience gained in back-of-the-clock ops, to difficult airfields.....I'll take that pilot over the 7am departure to EU or augment thousands of hours pilot any day.
what am i missing
at least the 310 folks got to pick their equipment, as i recall
as posters above had said, the experience gained in back-of-the-clock ops, to difficult airfields.....I'll take that pilot over the 7am departure to EU or augment thousands of hours pilot any day.
what am i missing
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WB
I know this place sucks but are you really saying that 320 pilots have left this hell hole in 10 months?
"company grew by 373 pilots since Dec2015
320 Pilots left us in the same time"
Yes just about everyone I know has their exit strategy in place and are actively looking to escape but I don't think the company is losing 32 pilots a month.
If the idiots keep up these insane policies the company might get that many pilots to leave but I don't think we are there yet.
I know this place sucks but are you really saying that 320 pilots have left this hell hole in 10 months?
"company grew by 373 pilots since Dec2015
320 Pilots left us in the same time"
Yes just about everyone I know has their exit strategy in place and are actively looking to escape but I don't think the company is losing 32 pilots a month.
If the idiots keep up these insane policies the company might get that many pilots to leave but I don't think we are there yet.
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to correct myself, have disappeared from the senoritylist.
scary enough to say that we could be close to a normal airline.
these numbers mean we have hired and trained 690 pilots in 12 month and sure there are still some to come.
but looking at the requirements as the requierments are low, i am wondering if there is still somebody out who wants. now all the TP guys have taken there chance to move to a big jet and i believe who is not here yet will not come at all.
what i like to say is that if all the pilots who left or intend to leave would be here things could nice. Recruitment has done it job but the unbroken greed, and ignorance makes it impossible for the rest.
let compare something else
LH has 120.000 employees and runs something of about 800 airplanes in the group. Average cost per employee over all> USD 110.000/year
800 airplanes with 120.000 Employees
EK has plus minus 65.000 over 240 airplanes. Average cost per employee over all USD 47.000/year
looking into that
LH has:
multiple stations
part time
maternity cover after birth (2 years for pilots and CC)
120 days off per year and 35 or 42 leave days (depending on the age)
Happiness factor 85%
what does EK have
labour is wastly cheaper and still we cannot manage to hold people
why? because of greed and ignorance
makes me feel sad
scary enough to say that we could be close to a normal airline.
these numbers mean we have hired and trained 690 pilots in 12 month and sure there are still some to come.
but looking at the requirements as the requierments are low, i am wondering if there is still somebody out who wants. now all the TP guys have taken there chance to move to a big jet and i believe who is not here yet will not come at all.
what i like to say is that if all the pilots who left or intend to leave would be here things could nice. Recruitment has done it job but the unbroken greed, and ignorance makes it impossible for the rest.
let compare something else
LH has 120.000 employees and runs something of about 800 airplanes in the group. Average cost per employee over all> USD 110.000/year
800 airplanes with 120.000 Employees
EK has plus minus 65.000 over 240 airplanes. Average cost per employee over all USD 47.000/year
looking into that
LH has:
multiple stations
part time
maternity cover after birth (2 years for pilots and CC)
120 days off per year and 35 or 42 leave days (depending on the age)
Happiness factor 85%
what does EK have
labour is wastly cheaper and still we cannot manage to hold people
why? because of greed and ignorance
makes me feel sad
Last edited by WB1900; 24th Sep 2016 at 03:12.
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Bluffontheriver123
I believe you got that very wrong mate: those who were by passed were not FORCED;
they laughed at us calling us crazy to elect to stay on the small fleet.
We had been given an option.Each one gambled with his own money.
While the big bus gambler enjoyed the next 3-4 years of nice rosters and timing and many days off in beautiful layover locations, we had the wonderful 4 night in a row indian turns and 8 days off.
It might be a matter of pay, but is not: it is matter of being downgraded and having to redo a "transfer course" (whatever that means).
Still stand and is clear to me that to many,you included, this is fair and it is ok to be shafted just because is not you...
B.O.H.I.C.A .
I believe you got that very wrong mate: those who were by passed were not FORCED;
they laughed at us calling us crazy to elect to stay on the small fleet.
We had been given an option.Each one gambled with his own money.
While the big bus gambler enjoyed the next 3-4 years of nice rosters and timing and many days off in beautiful layover locations, we had the wonderful 4 night in a row indian turns and 8 days off.
It might be a matter of pay, but is not: it is matter of being downgraded and having to redo a "transfer course" (whatever that means).
Still stand and is clear to me that to many,you included, this is fair and it is ok to be shafted just because is not you...
B.O.H.I.C.A .
Hi CTWO,
I am not trying to slam you only point out that you are not the only person to feel aggrieved which you clearly believe to be the case. I know you are venting but hey you are not alone. Some of the new joiners and your colleagues were actually essentially forced to the 380, recruited to the 777 or moved at the whim of the management. Some did indeed volunteer to transfer and I see from your post that you seem happy for them to be screwed:
Essentially you made a decision at the time which you thought would be of advantage to you as did your colleagues but the rules have changed. The first movers to the 380 were expecting a normal command time but lots of new fences were built after they moved. It has been ever thus, it doesn't make it right but that has been the status quo at EK since the times of TCK and I guarantee the warnings were being touted on PPRUNE before you joined.
But mate you really don't know the meaning of being shafted, you have lost your stripes which pains the ego but thank goodness you are still being paid. 3 years down the line you will have your stripes and not lost financially. That was not the case in the past and I guarantee you many would sign up for your deal in a heartbeat.
SNAFU would work better than BOHICA. I wish you well but I also wish all your colleagues well too.
I am not trying to slam you only point out that you are not the only person to feel aggrieved which you clearly believe to be the case. I know you are venting but hey you are not alone. Some of the new joiners and your colleagues were actually essentially forced to the 380, recruited to the 777 or moved at the whim of the management. Some did indeed volunteer to transfer and I see from your post that you seem happy for them to be screwed:
We had been given an option.Each one gambled with his own money.
While the big bus gambler enjoyed the next 3-4 years of nice rosters and timing and many days off in beautiful layover locations, we had the wonderful 4 night in a row indian turns and 8 days off.
While the big bus gambler enjoyed the next 3-4 years of nice rosters and timing and many days off in beautiful layover locations, we had the wonderful 4 night in a row indian turns and 8 days off.
But mate you really don't know the meaning of being shafted, you have lost your stripes which pains the ego but thank goodness you are still being paid. 3 years down the line you will have your stripes and not lost financially. That was not the case in the past and I guarantee you many would sign up for your deal in a heartbeat.
SNAFU would work better than BOHICA. I wish you well but I also wish all your colleagues well too.
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Hi CTWO,
I am not trying to slam you only point out that you are not the only person to feel aggrieved which you clearly believe to be the case. I know you are venting but hey you are not alone. Some of the new joiners and your colleagues were actually essentially forced to the 380, recruited to the 777 or moved at the whim of the management. Some did indeed volunteer to transfer and I see from your post that you seem happy for them to be screwed:
Essentially you made a decision at the time which you thought would be of advantage to you as did your colleagues but the rules have changed. The first movers to the 380 were expecting a normal command time but lots of new fences were built after they moved. It has been ever thus, it doesn't make it right but that has been the status quo at EK since the times of TCK and I guarantee the warnings were being touted on PPRUNE before you joined.
But mate you really don't know the meaning of being shafted, you have lost your stripes which pains the ego but thank goodness you are still being paid. 3 years down the line you will have your stripes and not lost financially. That was not the case in the past and I guarantee you many would sign up for your deal in a heartbeat.
SNAFU would work better than BOHICA. I wish you well but I also wish all your colleagues well too.
I am not trying to slam you only point out that you are not the only person to feel aggrieved which you clearly believe to be the case. I know you are venting but hey you are not alone. Some of the new joiners and your colleagues were actually essentially forced to the 380, recruited to the 777 or moved at the whim of the management. Some did indeed volunteer to transfer and I see from your post that you seem happy for them to be screwed:
Essentially you made a decision at the time which you thought would be of advantage to you as did your colleagues but the rules have changed. The first movers to the 380 were expecting a normal command time but lots of new fences were built after they moved. It has been ever thus, it doesn't make it right but that has been the status quo at EK since the times of TCK and I guarantee the warnings were being touted on PPRUNE before you joined.
But mate you really don't know the meaning of being shafted, you have lost your stripes which pains the ego but thank goodness you are still being paid. 3 years down the line you will have your stripes and not lost financially. That was not the case in the past and I guarantee you many would sign up for your deal in a heartbeat.
SNAFU would work better than BOHICA. I wish you well but I also wish all your colleagues well too.
You said some have been forced.. then I am sorry for them.. you see, for me it will never be SNAFU,because the situation is not normal and I do actually give a F*** even of the people who do not think likewise.
Best regards
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Bluffon, your ignorance and arrogance are outstanding and you apparently have issues, and I suspect you are either a troll or have opened a new account for other nefarious reasons. Many of the 330 pilots who joined have been here well over 8 years now and trust me they do remember good schedules, and quality of life. And yes they are being shafted to the extreme! The fact you are unable to see this is baffling. You want 43 pilots to essentially bet their careers EK will make them captains again. You want 43 Captains to take EK at their word? Once P2 is placed on their licence they will can not be hired as captain and will be trapped at EK. So they are essentially being forced out. Those who can leave will leave. Sad that EK treats it employees with so little regard. Confusing you are unable to see it!
It is worrying that people so quickly forget how "temporary " measures at EK soon become the rule. To have Capts demoted on fleet transfer is not a thing that is good for anyone.
The temporary delayed issue of rosters to end of month to help out with SARS. The temporary reduction to 30 days leave to help out after global melt down. We will increase the productivity threshold to 92hrs, and review it later on etc etc.
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it is 43 Captians are effected
25 are DEC, 15 of them are upgraders, which had a delayed upgrade due to DEC
further 25 DEC started in summer 2013 are already tranfered (they dont have the time on there back either) but they already seem to be safe. Sad for those have had a delayed upgrade.
further there are 52 FO still on the A330, 12 of them are 2012 and earlier which face now a long term RHS due the stick time requirement. as well as all delayed transfer FO to 380 which will be overtaken by direct entry FO with less hours.
makes a clear picture - How cares about 148 FO now having to go another 2 years after being between 4 and 6 years in the company.
as i said the less hours you have on the 330/340 in the company the better your chances for a career.
25 are DEC, 15 of them are upgraders, which had a delayed upgrade due to DEC
further 25 DEC started in summer 2013 are already tranfered (they dont have the time on there back either) but they already seem to be safe. Sad for those have had a delayed upgrade.
further there are 52 FO still on the A330, 12 of them are 2012 and earlier which face now a long term RHS due the stick time requirement. as well as all delayed transfer FO to 380 which will be overtaken by direct entry FO with less hours.
makes a clear picture - How cares about 148 FO now having to go another 2 years after being between 4 and 6 years in the company.
as i said the less hours you have on the 330/340 in the company the better your chances for a career.
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....I heard someone recently talking about the two buckets we carry along embracing "the airline:: "the one for the money and the one for the ****..you got to leave whichever fills up first"... I'll leave you the comment on that...
Nevrtheless, It would appear yours are pretty deep and capacious , since you did not fill any up to the rim.. yet...
May be I was hoping to have your same luck....
I wager when you signed up you did not have a clear picture either...lecturing, my dear friend, is easy with the wisdom of hindsight...
We are both here, I reckon...each one for his own personal reason....and may be I should have known better. Does that add something to the discussion topic?
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Only got to chat with one guy briefly. His question at the meeting was to JA and asked if they were aware of the resignations this would cause. He said yes and they were "prepared to lose 50%." "We are not short of pilots".
With another twist, the 330 upgrades who transferred to the 380 as CA within the past few months now are having meetings with one of the chief pilots. Doesn't sound good.
Sorry not much, but was a short chat.
With another twist, the 330 upgrades who transferred to the 380 as CA within the past few months now are having meetings with one of the chief pilots. Doesn't sound good.
Sorry not much, but was a short chat.
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We are not short of crashes
We are not short of management pilots with landing issues
We are not short of viscous behaviour towards pilots
We are not short of VP and above grades
We are short of experience
We are losing the plot.....
We are not short of management pilots with landing issues
We are not short of viscous behaviour towards pilots
We are not short of VP and above grades
We are short of experience
We are losing the plot.....