Cabin Crew Fatigue.
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Cabin Crew Fatigue.
Just got back from an EK night flight and was informed by the purser, while waiting 40 mins for a high-lifter, that 7 of them had pickups for various flights in less than 17 hours. It's about time that we as commanders ask the question during briefing if any crew has had less than 24hrs rest at "Home Base",and if so we should be writing ASRs to highlight this. The concerned crew members should also be encouraged to file fatigue report forms. How can our management really be concerned about the EK "Brand" when the frontline of our product is being flogged month in and month out. This will very soon, if not already, result in a downward spiral in service. Who would want to go the extra mile for the customers under the current working conditions.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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17 hours! Luxury!! Seriously though it is legal, depending on certain conditions, but if they do not feel fit to fly then they have to call sick fatigued (can they?) with the relevant report completed.
Has been happening to pilots for years.
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In all honesty, ask around amongst the cabin crew... Most of them have less hours a month than the pilots. It's only the seniors that are working the same amount as us.
I would be way more concerned about the rest situation on the A380 ULR where they get only 3 hours of bunk time on a 16 hour flight.
MR8
I would be way more concerned about the rest situation on the A380 ULR where they get only 3 hours of bunk time on a 16 hour flight.
MR8
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10 plus years in EK. I have had plenty of Cabin Crew (justifiably) complain about how exhausted they are. None, absolutely none, have been bothered to fill in a fatigue report. They only have themselves to blame.
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a Fatigue report is a very good tool in many ways, unfortunately there is a luck of understanding among the CC in E K.
It is a big airline and the communication is limited to the few channels, one way of communicating a problem is through a fatigue report follow by a short email to the right people in order to do a follow up (show interest about it and you will be respected).
In CRM we see the JOHARI window and we learn about how we show ourselves to the world ... well... galley talk would fit in the HIDDEN window (know to yourself and unknown to others which in this case will be the management) you can cry and suffer all day-night but if that isnīt reported it will never be changed.
You can contribute to the safety culture by using the airline tools. If you feel fatigue write a report, if the following flight you are not fit, call sick and back yourself up with that report.
When a day come that a flight has to be cancelled due to a lack of available crew (because they reported as sick or fatigued) then the company will realized that there is a need for a change.
- It is a way to inform the company that something is not right
- it is a way of backing yourself up if you ended up sick (back pain, flu, blocked ears, etc).
- it is a way of improving the safety of the airline.
- It is a way to improve and take the job more seriously (each crew member must report any important information that may affect the safety).
It is a big airline and the communication is limited to the few channels, one way of communicating a problem is through a fatigue report follow by a short email to the right people in order to do a follow up (show interest about it and you will be respected).
In CRM we see the JOHARI window and we learn about how we show ourselves to the world ... well... galley talk would fit in the HIDDEN window (know to yourself and unknown to others which in this case will be the management) you can cry and suffer all day-night but if that isnīt reported it will never be changed.
You can contribute to the safety culture by using the airline tools. If you feel fatigue write a report, if the following flight you are not fit, call sick and back yourself up with that report.
When a day come that a flight has to be cancelled due to a lack of available crew (because they reported as sick or fatigued) then the company will realized that there is a need for a change.
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Let me add my 2 cent here.
You are right about the usefulness of the fatigue report.
However you also know how this company constantly threatens the employees. Maybe you guys from the flight deck don't really feel it as much as CC do, but I assure you that among the CC community there is a lot of fear of the company and few, if any CC trust the management.
Let me explain myself.
When I was CC, I heard the trainers at the training college telling us several times that if you fill a fatigue report, there will be a "thorough investigation to determine the causes of what happened. The company will investigate how many hours of rest you had in between your flights, how was your health, how you used that rest, etc" basically saying that the company will check all the facts and find a way to put the guilt on you. "You should have slept better and you still decided to operate a flight knowing that you weren't fit" so here you go, now the CC is the responsible and will get a nice final warning or worse. This is the message that the company transmits to the CC. Ask around if you think I'm exaggerating.
And as CC I was constantly feeling threatened by the company to not fill these reports. We all know how fair is this region. They can throw you away with no explanation what so ever and by filling the report you are essentially reporting yourself for not getting enough rest. In the eyes of the company it's easier to bully the crew and keep us shout rather than increase the rest hours, everybody knows that. You don't have to be a guru to understand that 5 night turnarounds in 7 days is not healthy and that it causes fatigue. They know and they don't care. I filled one myself after some horrible night TA and a month later a got a 3 lines reply saying that the flight is legal and there is nothing to discuss.
So if actually you guys, the pilots, take the initiative to ask the crew if they are tiered and then offer to be the ones to fill the report and the crew signs or something like this, you will be taking most of the fear off the crew, since now the report is initiated and backed by the captain\FO. And I doubt that the management would go against a captain for reporting the crew was tiered. Try doing this and I assure you, you'll have many more reports filled. The CC just needs to feel more backed up!
You are right about the usefulness of the fatigue report.
However you also know how this company constantly threatens the employees. Maybe you guys from the flight deck don't really feel it as much as CC do, but I assure you that among the CC community there is a lot of fear of the company and few, if any CC trust the management.
Let me explain myself.
When I was CC, I heard the trainers at the training college telling us several times that if you fill a fatigue report, there will be a "thorough investigation to determine the causes of what happened. The company will investigate how many hours of rest you had in between your flights, how was your health, how you used that rest, etc" basically saying that the company will check all the facts and find a way to put the guilt on you. "You should have slept better and you still decided to operate a flight knowing that you weren't fit" so here you go, now the CC is the responsible and will get a nice final warning or worse. This is the message that the company transmits to the CC. Ask around if you think I'm exaggerating.
And as CC I was constantly feeling threatened by the company to not fill these reports. We all know how fair is this region. They can throw you away with no explanation what so ever and by filling the report you are essentially reporting yourself for not getting enough rest. In the eyes of the company it's easier to bully the crew and keep us shout rather than increase the rest hours, everybody knows that. You don't have to be a guru to understand that 5 night turnarounds in 7 days is not healthy and that it causes fatigue. They know and they don't care. I filled one myself after some horrible night TA and a month later a got a 3 lines reply saying that the flight is legal and there is nothing to discuss.
So if actually you guys, the pilots, take the initiative to ask the crew if they are tiered and then offer to be the ones to fill the report and the crew signs or something like this, you will be taking most of the fear off the crew, since now the report is initiated and backed by the captain\FO. And I doubt that the management would go against a captain for reporting the crew was tiered. Try doing this and I assure you, you'll have many more reports filled. The CC just needs to feel more backed up!
