EK Training department roster
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With the exception of MM (even sarcasm is something I can recognise), I guess it's obvious who the culprits are defending their precious pyjama fetish...and iPad use.
My point was referring to more of an attitude of professionalism. If you feel more 'comfortable' in pyjamas then so be it. Just hope you allow enough time when you're informed of the cabin fire to change during the emergency descent, re route, fuel jettison, NITS brief, PA, checklists, performance calculations, airfield brief, advise Company and flying the plane......I'm sure a few minutes can be found.
Or just keep them on during the evacuation as you take charge either side and direct passengers. Wearing you hat might well be the only item of clothing that convinces those entrusted with their lives that you were actually at the pointy end. Of course, the hat might not even be necessary. The 'CREW' sticker on the back should be good enough for most. Muppets.
Harry
My point was referring to more of an attitude of professionalism. If you feel more 'comfortable' in pyjamas then so be it. Just hope you allow enough time when you're informed of the cabin fire to change during the emergency descent, re route, fuel jettison, NITS brief, PA, checklists, performance calculations, airfield brief, advise Company and flying the plane......I'm sure a few minutes can be found.
Or just keep them on during the evacuation as you take charge either side and direct passengers. Wearing you hat might well be the only item of clothing that convinces those entrusted with their lives that you were actually at the pointy end. Of course, the hat might not even be necessary. The 'CREW' sticker on the back should be good enough for most. Muppets.
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 20th Jul 2016 at 18:31.
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WK
How do you manage to go 7 hours without a visit to the boys room? Or do you do that in you PJs too as you exit the flight deck? Why someone would want to sit around in something they've just slept in is beyond me!
Unless that is, I was with a hot female F/O who's into Agent Provocateur with a slinky little baby doll neglige. Hat would be optional, depending on my fetish scale that day.
How do you manage to go 7 hours without a visit to the boys room? Or do you do that in you PJs too as you exit the flight deck? Why someone would want to sit around in something they've just slept in is beyond me!
Unless that is, I was with a hot female F/O who's into Agent Provocateur with a slinky little baby doll neglige. Hat would be optional, depending on my fetish scale that day.
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And that Harry, was exactly the reply I thought you'd muster up!
Do you fly with your hands covering the controls too? Just in case? Relax a little! It's a surprisingly easy job...
...unless you're a bit uptight of course!
Do you fly with your hands covering the controls too? Just in case? Relax a little! It's a surprisingly easy job...
...unless you're a bit uptight of course!
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Wow, the summer heat must be getting to some as the level of effort to hang around here posting complete drivel is at an all time high in the above posts.
It's now a forum here in the ME to come and have a laugh more than find out anything of interest.
Off to check the cool aid in the shops is not out of stock as the boys above need to go buy some.
J
It's now a forum here in the ME to come and have a laugh more than find out anything of interest.
Off to check the cool aid in the shops is not out of stock as the boys above need to go buy some.
J
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WK
I'm not going to bite again. I see enough brainless vitriol on youtube comments without succumbing to the same red mist. So, to avoid the popcorn munchers salivating over a rather pathetic tit for tat, here's my olive branch.
The whole purpose of my post was to highlight the fact that yes, the job nowadays of flying highly automated machinery is inherently straightforward. As you rightly say, it's mostly a 'surprisingly easy job'. However, because it's such a reliable system, we face the very real threat of complacency. My initial post was certainly not to portray a 'holier than thou' attitude. Far from it. It was to differentiate between those that have a plan A & B up their sleeve when the **** hits the fan. My experience with some individuals, and it's increasing, is that their exposure to the failure of systems and components is becoming rare, unlike some 20+ years ago where it was certainly more common. We learnt from those experiences as well as from war stories of far scarier events, narrated by bearded crusty Captains, older than our Dads! Our new generation pilots expect the plane to work as advertised. AOG's are virtually unheard of, autopilots can land without DH's, engines run for hundreds of hours without a single issue. Navigation is now accurate to within a few feet and all programmed before departure to allow us to sit, relaxed and feet up, as we watch the little white triangle follow a magenta line to our destiny. When these systems don't function as advertised, the startle factor can be immense and we've seen all too often recent events where even the most basic task, of flying the plane, is beyond their ability. As I said, AF447 is just one example.
And perhaps that is where I was leading with the PJ's. I've seen it several times on ULR's where there's an almost laissez Faire attitude to the job, handovers especially. Not always, but often enough for me to realise that if there was an emergency, there are some crew who would seriously struggle with what to do and where to go. When I get a depressurisation brief over Turkey that matey will turn around and head back to Dubai because "that's what it says on the flight plan", I realise that Situational Awareness is not equal amongst all men! What you wear on the FD has no bearing on your ability to do the job but it does have a powerful sub conscious influence on other people's perception on how THEY THINK you can do the job.
So, I apologies for name calling, most unprofessional. However, I will reserve the right to do so if we ever fly together. I don't want to be racing back from the bunk knowing that you're distracted from the emergency because you need to allow time to change!
....and feel free to call me an uptight p***k.
Now, back to the thread?
Harry
I'm not going to bite again. I see enough brainless vitriol on youtube comments without succumbing to the same red mist. So, to avoid the popcorn munchers salivating over a rather pathetic tit for tat, here's my olive branch.
The whole purpose of my post was to highlight the fact that yes, the job nowadays of flying highly automated machinery is inherently straightforward. As you rightly say, it's mostly a 'surprisingly easy job'. However, because it's such a reliable system, we face the very real threat of complacency. My initial post was certainly not to portray a 'holier than thou' attitude. Far from it. It was to differentiate between those that have a plan A & B up their sleeve when the **** hits the fan. My experience with some individuals, and it's increasing, is that their exposure to the failure of systems and components is becoming rare, unlike some 20+ years ago where it was certainly more common. We learnt from those experiences as well as from war stories of far scarier events, narrated by bearded crusty Captains, older than our Dads! Our new generation pilots expect the plane to work as advertised. AOG's are virtually unheard of, autopilots can land without DH's, engines run for hundreds of hours without a single issue. Navigation is now accurate to within a few feet and all programmed before departure to allow us to sit, relaxed and feet up, as we watch the little white triangle follow a magenta line to our destiny. When these systems don't function as advertised, the startle factor can be immense and we've seen all too often recent events where even the most basic task, of flying the plane, is beyond their ability. As I said, AF447 is just one example.
And perhaps that is where I was leading with the PJ's. I've seen it several times on ULR's where there's an almost laissez Faire attitude to the job, handovers especially. Not always, but often enough for me to realise that if there was an emergency, there are some crew who would seriously struggle with what to do and where to go. When I get a depressurisation brief over Turkey that matey will turn around and head back to Dubai because "that's what it says on the flight plan", I realise that Situational Awareness is not equal amongst all men! What you wear on the FD has no bearing on your ability to do the job but it does have a powerful sub conscious influence on other people's perception on how THEY THINK you can do the job.
So, I apologies for name calling, most unprofessional. However, I will reserve the right to do so if we ever fly together. I don't want to be racing back from the bunk knowing that you're distracted from the emergency because you need to allow time to change!
....and feel free to call me an uptight p***k.
Now, back to the thread?
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 21st Jul 2016 at 06:07.
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"I don't want to be racing back from the bunk knowing that you're distracted from the emergency because you need to allow time to change!"
...and... what will you be wearing when you race back from the bunk in an emergency Harry???!
...and... what will you be wearing when you race back from the bunk in an emergency Harry???!
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Spot on Harry. Unfortunately, because of the reliability the younger generation whose first job was on a 737 never experienced failure or, more importantly, were never exposed to the decision making and knowledge to deal with failures/issues.
The industry's reponse--reduce training (and the costs) even further. EK want to go to 3 hour sim sessions-perfect example.
The industry's reponse--reduce training (and the costs) even further. EK want to go to 3 hour sim sessions-perfect example.
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First of all, I would like to state that it quite something to see White Knight and harry the cod fighting on a PPRune thread. When two equally ardent defenders/admirers of EK can come to (virtual) blows, well...it truly must be the End Of Days.
I don't think anyone will have to worry about rushing back from the "CRC" in an EK aircraft during an emergency. With the asinine placement of FD crew at the back of the a/c, there's little chance of ever making it back to the flight deck during anything serious. Problem solved, EK-style! Oh how I love that I now have a proper OFCR compartment as God and Boeing intended...I digress...
I once had another captain on a ULR have a groan about the fact I was wearing the (EK-issued) blue sweater over my uniform, long after I had returned from the CRC. His gripe was that "in an emergency how was he supposed to know the rank of the FD crew"? So I calmly explained to him, that in case he couldn't see the epaulets, I would be the one sitting in the left seat, if that helped.
Seriously, you couldn't make up some of the stuff that goes on at EK.
I don't think anyone will have to worry about rushing back from the "CRC" in an EK aircraft during an emergency. With the asinine placement of FD crew at the back of the a/c, there's little chance of ever making it back to the flight deck during anything serious. Problem solved, EK-style! Oh how I love that I now have a proper OFCR compartment as God and Boeing intended...I digress...
I once had another captain on a ULR have a groan about the fact I was wearing the (EK-issued) blue sweater over my uniform, long after I had returned from the CRC. His gripe was that "in an emergency how was he supposed to know the rank of the FD crew"? So I calmly explained to him, that in case he couldn't see the epaulets, I would be the one sitting in the left seat, if that helped.
Seriously, you couldn't make up some of the stuff that goes on at EK.
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Do EK pilots have anything better to do during cruise than rant and post essays on PPRUNE?!
Soon you guys will be focusing on how fast you'll get the wifi to post. (if you haven't used the on-board wifi already).
Hurry up with the BA/RYR/EZY apps already!
Some of you have been complaining for 5 years +, you should be ashamed at your planning skills. We'll see you guys in the "EK retirees: stay in DXB or go back home?" forum one day.
Sorry i meant to say "the 10% of EK pilots who rant". The other 45% are happy, and the other 45% knew what they were getting into and are content with being a part of a widebody ME airline operation.
Soon you guys will be focusing on how fast you'll get the wifi to post. (if you haven't used the on-board wifi already).
Hurry up with the BA/RYR/EZY apps already!
Some of you have been complaining for 5 years +, you should be ashamed at your planning skills. We'll see you guys in the "EK retirees: stay in DXB or go back home?" forum one day.
Sorry i meant to say "the 10% of EK pilots who rant". The other 45% are happy, and the other 45% knew what they were getting into and are content with being a part of a widebody ME airline operation.
Last edited by striker26; 22nd Jul 2016 at 15:09.
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PJ
Why only wear PJ on the flight deck during ULR's?
Every flight is one big inflight rest exercise anyway.
Lets change into something more comfortable when we enter the aircraft and have pillows and blankets as a standard in the area where the coats are hanging.
And a little light outsight the cockpit saying "resting, do not disturb'.
N.
Every flight is one big inflight rest exercise anyway.
Lets change into something more comfortable when we enter the aircraft and have pillows and blankets as a standard in the area where the coats are hanging.
And a little light outsight the cockpit saying "resting, do not disturb'.
N.
Sorry i meant to say "the 10% of EK pilots who rant". The other 45% are happy, and the other 45% knew what they were getting into and are content with being a part of a widebody ME airline operation.
The PJ issue and comments on here are merely reflective of the disconnection between perceptions and reality, which dovetails nicely into the identical issues with training and its ethos and personnel.
A little recent example of a further erosion in the opinion I had for training and trainers per se went like this.
Operated aircraft to outstation, said aircraft not fitted with EFB's, so charts used. On leaving the aircraft the charts in use were book marked for ease of retrieval for the next crew, and placed in a conspicuous position so as to be obvious and within easy reach. All done in compliance with the inane and poorly worded/thought through company "leave the cockpit neat and tidy" policy.
Several days later I receive a snottagram from a "trainer" no less about how the cockpit was found in a non policy conforming fashion due to the charts being bookmarked, and how this had made it more challenging for him to "train" as the policy was not "strictly" adhered too
A chap from Nazareth wept...
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I would say that most trainers I have met are not good teachers, they are not interested in passing on knowledge, tips, anecdotes, etc.... basically, teaching!
A little recent example of a further erosion in the opinion I had for training and trainers per se went like this.
This means that by far the majority of trainers are good blokes who are seriously undervalued by this airline. They are a necessary pain in your a**e as without them we could not function as an airline and we would all be out of a job.
I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for us, we don't HAVE to do it, but give the majority a break, we do it because we enjoy it and do our level best to do it well. If you are someone ( like the dick I flew with a few weeks back ) who thinks its ok to be on your mobile downwind at DXB when you are PF....... well guess what.... yup, you guessed it " all trainers are coc*s..........right?
Basic, an absolutely perfect response, I wish there were more like you, it is however easy for me too moan from the sidelines, I accept that as well which is why I have an enormous amount of respect for the good hardworking trainers who are there to impart knowledge.
Last edited by Monarch Man; 24th Jul 2016 at 07:50. Reason: Terribl England komprehestion