FZ 981 crashes in Rostov on Don Russia
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FZ 981 crashes in Rostov on Don Russia
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Seriously sad if reported as fact. My heartfelt condolences to all crew and passengers..
55 pax and 7 crew onboard, RIP
Apparently just left of and before the runway(@100m or so from threshold) is the accident point in supposedly poor weather after a second approach. Crew had been circling for over 2 hours trying to land. A video of the supposed incident from CCTV shows a higher than normal looking rate of descent. No emergency was ever declared.
FlyD and Boeing to investigate the causes.
I request that everyone respects this accident in this ME forum and does not let this turn into a "I told you so" about the operating ethos.
J
55 pax and 7 crew onboard, RIP
Apparently just left of and before the runway(@100m or so from threshold) is the accident point in supposedly poor weather after a second approach. Crew had been circling for over 2 hours trying to land. A video of the supposed incident from CCTV shows a higher than normal looking rate of descent. No emergency was ever declared.
FlyD and Boeing to investigate the causes.
I request that everyone respects this accident in this ME forum and does not let this turn into a "I told you so" about the operating ethos.
J
Last edited by jack schidt; 19th Mar 2016 at 02:50. Reason: Extra details added.
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FR24 data
The playback on
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a6-fdn/#922b3bd
Shows transmission stops at 2275 feet inside the fence after what looks like a GA.
Terrible...
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a6-fdn/#922b3bd
Shows transmission stops at 2275 feet inside the fence after what looks like a GA.
Terrible...
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Perhaps we should ease up on the vitriol towards the company and rostering practises for a few hours.
There may be family, friends and colleagues just waking up to this news.
Thoughts to everyone affected, I hope by some minor miracle there are some survivors.
There may be family, friends and colleagues just waking up to this news.
Thoughts to everyone affected, I hope by some minor miracle there are some survivors.
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Very horrible news for all involved and their families... RIP
I only hope that a full and thorough investigation will be performed and that the usual crew mistakes will not be pointed out without digging further to also find out what could have been done to avoid this in ALL level of the company structure.
I only hope that a full and thorough investigation will be performed and that the usual crew mistakes will not be pointed out without digging further to also find out what could have been done to avoid this in ALL level of the company structure.
short flights long nights
Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has survived.
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If this audio is authentic they were holding due to windshear reports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4m0FcsLnEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4m0FcsLnEg
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On the tower audio, wind was reported as gusting 35kts, vis 3,500m in showers, with previous reports of moderate windshear.
The crew reported going around, and crashed shortly after. The impact video shows an impact angle and speed only slightly less than another 737 incident in the same area in 2013 s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan_Airlines_Flight_363
It would seem to be vertigo caused by rapid acceleration in night, IMC..perhaps even the additional acceleration from a windshear go-around. It's happened plenty of times before unfortunately.
The crew reported going around, and crashed shortly after. The impact video shows an impact angle and speed only slightly less than another 737 incident in the same area in 2013 s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan_Airlines_Flight_363
It would seem to be vertigo caused by rapid acceleration in night, IMC..perhaps even the additional acceleration from a windshear go-around. It's happened plenty of times before unfortunately.
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Fellow professionals,
Please let's not speculate on what happened or ever second guess what the crew did or did not do, leave that to the talking heads.
All I know is that nobody as of right now knows what happened, lets just hope that it is a open, honest and fair investigation.
Please let's not speculate on what happened or ever second guess what the crew did or did not do, leave that to the talking heads.
All I know is that nobody as of right now knows what happened, lets just hope that it is a open, honest and fair investigation.
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I find the repeated pleading for lack of comment about the "operating ethos", "easing up on the company vitriol" and so on, to be far more damning than actually mentioning potential employer-induced contributing factors.
Which, incidentally, no one actually had. Which makes me wonder exactly how many management spin doctors may be working here. Shhhhhh...
Don't speculate? It's an aviation rumour forum, for gawd's sake. Who wouldn't want to try and find out what happened here?!? Has nothing to do with respect, rather prevention of a recurrence.
Which, incidentally, no one actually had. Which makes me wonder exactly how many management spin doctors may be working here. Shhhhhh...
Don't speculate? It's an aviation rumour forum, for gawd's sake. Who wouldn't want to try and find out what happened here?!? Has nothing to do with respect, rather prevention of a recurrence.
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Northflyer I think you're naive to think professional pilots won't want to discuss what may have gone wrong..it's in our nature.
This forum isn't just for leaving sincere notes of condolence (and no disrespect meant to those that do, or indeed to the victims themselves)
This incident has serious ramifications for all...it's a manoeuvre that we all practise in the sim every training session. But...the sim doesn't reproduce the effects of severe vertigo..the only time you'll experience that is when you do one of these in real life.
Raising awareness of the dangers of this manoeuvre is exactly what I'm pushing here. If that saves another aircraft before the official report comes out in a year's time then I'm happy to put forward my thoughts based on 35 years of military/civilian experience..especially having experienced this myself on a number of occasions.
There's a big difference between highlighting what may have gone wrong versus starting to lay blame for things that we can't be sure about.
This forum isn't just for leaving sincere notes of condolence (and no disrespect meant to those that do, or indeed to the victims themselves)
This incident has serious ramifications for all...it's a manoeuvre that we all practise in the sim every training session. But...the sim doesn't reproduce the effects of severe vertigo..the only time you'll experience that is when you do one of these in real life.
Raising awareness of the dangers of this manoeuvre is exactly what I'm pushing here. If that saves another aircraft before the official report comes out in a year's time then I'm happy to put forward my thoughts based on 35 years of military/civilian experience..especially having experienced this myself on a number of occasions.
There's a big difference between highlighting what may have gone wrong versus starting to lay blame for things that we can't be sure about.
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I agree with Kamelchaser, at least we speculate with a degree of experience and professionalism, just turn on any news channel right now and listen to the BS info they are giving...the best one I've heard yet is "if pilots align with the runway too early on the approach during these crosswind landings, they could end up hundreds of meters off the runway centreline"
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Very sad news. RIP guys and sincere condolences to all next of kin.
The video available online already shows a very steep descent path and what appears to be "flames" on the right side. Mrs Alwayz has just smsed me from the UK. The press have already apportioned blame it would seem
guess where?!
There but for the Grace..................................
The video available online already shows a very steep descent path and what appears to be "flames" on the right side. Mrs Alwayz has just smsed me from the UK. The press have already apportioned blame it would seem
guess where?!There but for the Grace..................................
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Sad news. Hard to discuss without knowing the facts like aircraft history, pilot training history and background(used to low vis ops or just trained but not so often used it), and especially from the work threads here in the ME part - how many hours have they previously flown(week/month/year) and which quality of rest they had before this flight.
We do not know anything about that(well, some may) and for this reason we will have to wait for the actual results of the investigation from the RUSSIANS(don't thrust the GCAA as well with that).
RIP guys.
We do not know anything about that(well, some may) and for this reason we will have to wait for the actual results of the investigation from the RUSSIANS(don't thrust the GCAA as well with that).
RIP guys.
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Kamelchaser,
I don't disagree with raising awareness of the dangers of vertigo and this is as good a time as any.
Like you, I have 35 plus years of military/civilian experience and I am not naive to think that pilots won't discuss what went wrong, it is our nature.
All I am saying is that it could be one of an unknown number of things that could have caused this accident and I have learned from the past that whenever "I" think I know what may have caused an accident, I have been wrong.
When I was flying C-130's, we were doing practice G/A's from minimums in VFR conditions and the #3 engine went into reverse, by the skill of the flight engineer, who shut down the engine while we were in a 30 to 40 degree bank a couple hundred feet above the runway were we able to come back around and land, had it been in IFR conditions and we crashed, would it have been vertigo, pilot error, the weather? So once again, all I am saying is that we don't know what happened.
What I do take issue with is any "professional pilot" second guessing what another crew has done, like, "why did they hold so long and not divert".
That is what I was getting at, next time I will be more blunt.
Condolences to the crew and their passengers.
I don't disagree with raising awareness of the dangers of vertigo and this is as good a time as any.
Like you, I have 35 plus years of military/civilian experience and I am not naive to think that pilots won't discuss what went wrong, it is our nature.
All I am saying is that it could be one of an unknown number of things that could have caused this accident and I have learned from the past that whenever "I" think I know what may have caused an accident, I have been wrong.
When I was flying C-130's, we were doing practice G/A's from minimums in VFR conditions and the #3 engine went into reverse, by the skill of the flight engineer, who shut down the engine while we were in a 30 to 40 degree bank a couple hundred feet above the runway were we able to come back around and land, had it been in IFR conditions and we crashed, would it have been vertigo, pilot error, the weather? So once again, all I am saying is that we don't know what happened.
What I do take issue with is any "professional pilot" second guessing what another crew has done, like, "why did they hold so long and not divert".
That is what I was getting at, next time I will be more blunt.
Condolences to the crew and their passengers.
Last edited by north flyer; 19th Mar 2016 at 10:29.