UK Roadshows for EK
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UK Roadshows for EK
24th to 28th June.
Just to give you guys and girls back there the heads up, read the different threads on here first if you intend going along and pick out some questions to ask.
It's getting really bad out here now with 90 hrs a month, east/west flights, long haul mixed with short and minimum days off.
I left thinking charter flying was going to kill me, WRONG!!! but this type of flying will.
Be warned!
Just to give you guys and girls back there the heads up, read the different threads on here first if you intend going along and pick out some questions to ask.
It's getting really bad out here now with 90 hrs a month, east/west flights, long haul mixed with short and minimum days off.
I left thinking charter flying was going to kill me, WRONG!!! but this type of flying will.
Be warned!
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No Welcome to the award winning airline.
That has increased the hours worked without a by or leave. Rosters East and West as it sees fit, but you try and roster swop that way to try and improve your lifestyle with days off, the system rejects you.
The caring Airline that has repeatedly failed to raise pay to anything like inflation for several years, that also requires ground engineers to work compulsory overtime. That can if needs must, roster you into overtime without even asking if you would mind.
42 days leave forget it, and if you have Kids well you might be able to go on holiday with them once every 3 or 4 years, thats if they remember who you are, other than the grumpy old git who just comes and goes and strange times of the day and night.
Married well I hope you have a better divorce lawyer than your wife shall we say.
The luxury villas great if you fancy living in something akin to 1970's style Chinese workers compounds, go google Meydan Heights/South.
From the training meetings we are about 450 pilots short of what we need, and there is a dam good reason for that. The glitz and glamour of that wide body soon wear off and then its just another aeroplane punching a hole in the sky on its 14Hr flight somewhere, where you can have a 24Hr layover, but wait thats 24hrs from shed. brakes on to shed. brakes off, so by the time you get to your hotel you might have 18hrs to recover before heading home to Dubai in the summer where its a lovely 40c +.
That has increased the hours worked without a by or leave. Rosters East and West as it sees fit, but you try and roster swop that way to try and improve your lifestyle with days off, the system rejects you.
The caring Airline that has repeatedly failed to raise pay to anything like inflation for several years, that also requires ground engineers to work compulsory overtime. That can if needs must, roster you into overtime without even asking if you would mind.
42 days leave forget it, and if you have Kids well you might be able to go on holiday with them once every 3 or 4 years, thats if they remember who you are, other than the grumpy old git who just comes and goes and strange times of the day and night.
Married well I hope you have a better divorce lawyer than your wife shall we say.
The luxury villas great if you fancy living in something akin to 1970's style Chinese workers compounds, go google Meydan Heights/South.
From the training meetings we are about 450 pilots short of what we need, and there is a dam good reason for that. The glitz and glamour of that wide body soon wear off and then its just another aeroplane punching a hole in the sky on its 14Hr flight somewhere, where you can have a 24Hr layover, but wait thats 24hrs from shed. brakes on to shed. brakes off, so by the time you get to your hotel you might have 18hrs to recover before heading home to Dubai in the summer where its a lovely 40c +.
short flights long nights
Read the above they speak the truth. By pure coincidence, just before reading this thread, I got an email from a good freind in EK. His wife has told him she is going home and wants a divorce. The fact that he his hardly ever home and when he is, he is little more than a jet lagged zombi had led to this. And an impending forced move to Meydan wasn't helping either.At least, that what he has said to me.
Last edited by SOPS; 9th Jun 2015 at 01:42.
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Anyone considering going to this roadshow best take heed to the above.
As one of our senior managers once said "its all about public perception" and this is the tag line that recruitment uses to sign up the un-initiated, reality is a very different matter. All cockpits are the same...and you'll spend a lot of time in them here. Don't be fooled by the bigger A/C, its only more cabin crew who ignore you and passengers complaining/getting sick/not turning up to the gate/etc etc.
All marriages are tested here and many fail. You'll need the patience of Jobe and a partial lobotomy to make it past 3 years....not the marriage, the company and city!
If I can offer advice I'd say that if you have a job, stay where your are. If you don't have a job, consider going back to university and find a better vocation.
And always remember...it only gets worse every year...I'll bet they won't mention that at the roadshow either.
As one of our senior managers once said "its all about public perception" and this is the tag line that recruitment uses to sign up the un-initiated, reality is a very different matter. All cockpits are the same...and you'll spend a lot of time in them here. Don't be fooled by the bigger A/C, its only more cabin crew who ignore you and passengers complaining/getting sick/not turning up to the gate/etc etc.
All marriages are tested here and many fail. You'll need the patience of Jobe and a partial lobotomy to make it past 3 years....not the marriage, the company and city!
If I can offer advice I'd say that if you have a job, stay where your are. If you don't have a job, consider going back to university and find a better vocation.
And always remember...it only gets worse every year...I'll bet they won't mention that at the roadshow either.
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Agree Springbok. For me the forced leave in the middle of the school year is another unacceptable practice. Some pilots have not been given any leave for a year!
And the roster limitations and restrictions making it close to impossible to make plans with my family month after month.
Better to look elsewhere for quality of life.
And the roster limitations and restrictions making it close to impossible to make plans with my family month after month.
Better to look elsewhere for quality of life.
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YOUR LEGAL ENTITLEMENT IS 30 DAYS PLUS TE 10 BELOW NOT 30.
ARTICLE (75)
- 22 -
The employee must be granted an annual leave during each year of service which may
not be less than:
1. Two days per month in respect of any employee with more than six months and
less than one year of service.
2. Thirty days per annum in respect of any employee whose period of service
exceeds on year.
ARTICLE (76)
The employer may at his discretion determine the date for commencement of annual
leaves and, when necessary, he may decide to divide the leave in two parts at the most,
except in cases of juveniles where vacation may not be divided in parts.
ARTICLE (74)
Each employee is entitled to an official leave with full pay on the following occasions:
- Hijra New Year. One day
- Christian New Year. One day
- Eid Al Fitr Two days
- Eid Al Adha and Waqfa day Three days
- Birthday of the Prophet One day
- Ascension Day One day
- National Day One day
ARTICLE (81)
If exigencies of work necessitate that the employee work on holidays or rest days
against which he receives full or partial pay he shall be compensated in lieu thereof with
increase in pay by 50% of his wage, but if he has not been compensated for the same
with a leave, the employer shall pay him an increase to his basic wage equivalent to
150% of the days of work
ARTICLE (65)
The maximum normal working hours for adult employees shall be eight hours per day
ARTICLE (67)
If circumstances of work necessitate that an employee works more than the normal
working hours, the extra time shall be considered overtime, for which the employee
shall receive a remuneration equal to that corresponding to his normal working hours
plus an extra of at least 25 percent of such remuneration.
ARTICLE (68)
If circumstance of work necessitate that an employee works overtime between 9.00 p.m
and 4.00 a.m., he shall be entitled to normal working hours pay plus an increase equal to
at least 50% of such pay.
ARTICLE (69)
Actual overtime may not exceed two hours per day unless work in necessary to prevent
substantial loss or serious accident or to eliminate or alleviate its effects.
ARTICLE (70)
Friday is the normal weekly holiday for all employees except for those on daily wage
bases.
If the employee is required to work on Friday he shall be granted one day off for rest or
be paid the basic pay for normal working hours plus 50% increase at least of such pay.
ARTICLE (75)
- 22 -
The employee must be granted an annual leave during each year of service which may
not be less than:
1. Two days per month in respect of any employee with more than six months and
less than one year of service.
2. Thirty days per annum in respect of any employee whose period of service
exceeds on year.
ARTICLE (76)
The employer may at his discretion determine the date for commencement of annual
leaves and, when necessary, he may decide to divide the leave in two parts at the most,
except in cases of juveniles where vacation may not be divided in parts.
ARTICLE (74)
Each employee is entitled to an official leave with full pay on the following occasions:
- Hijra New Year. One day
- Christian New Year. One day
- Eid Al Fitr Two days
- Eid Al Adha and Waqfa day Three days
- Birthday of the Prophet One day
- Ascension Day One day
- National Day One day
ARTICLE (81)
If exigencies of work necessitate that the employee work on holidays or rest days
against which he receives full or partial pay he shall be compensated in lieu thereof with
increase in pay by 50% of his wage, but if he has not been compensated for the same
with a leave, the employer shall pay him an increase to his basic wage equivalent to
150% of the days of work
ARTICLE (65)
The maximum normal working hours for adult employees shall be eight hours per day
ARTICLE (67)
If circumstances of work necessitate that an employee works more than the normal
working hours, the extra time shall be considered overtime, for which the employee
shall receive a remuneration equal to that corresponding to his normal working hours
plus an extra of at least 25 percent of such remuneration.
ARTICLE (68)
If circumstance of work necessitate that an employee works overtime between 9.00 p.m
and 4.00 a.m., he shall be entitled to normal working hours pay plus an increase equal to
at least 50% of such pay.
ARTICLE (69)
Actual overtime may not exceed two hours per day unless work in necessary to prevent
substantial loss or serious accident or to eliminate or alleviate its effects.
ARTICLE (70)
Friday is the normal weekly holiday for all employees except for those on daily wage
bases.
If the employee is required to work on Friday he shall be granted one day off for rest or
be paid the basic pay for normal working hours plus 50% increase at least of such pay.
short flights long nights
Re leave.
One of the things that helped my descion to leave was the fact that, had I stayed I would have gone 15 months between leave allocations, and after waiting 15 months for leave, I was allocated 10 days leave.
Just to make that clear for those considering, in January 2014 I had 3 weeks leave. The next leave I was awarded was 10 days in April 2015. This is nothing like the advertised 6 weeks a year, and with the 10 days leave in April, I still would have had a roster of around 80 hours.
Time to take the dogs for a walk.......
Just to make that clear for those considering, in January 2014 I had 3 weeks leave. The next leave I was awarded was 10 days in April 2015. This is nothing like the advertised 6 weeks a year, and with the 10 days leave in April, I still would have had a roster of around 80 hours.
Time to take the dogs for a walk.......
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By all means go the shows .
However, ensure ask about the unmentioned aspects of life in the Pit.
Ask why after announcing enormous large profits the work force, operational crew, were just awarded the contractial step dressed up as a pay rise .
Ask about the real cost of schooling for your kids, especially in secondary school.
Definitely ask why it's so difficult for crews to take leave.
Ask what the operational reason is for limiting strings of days off to 5, even when max hours have been reached.
Have a really good think what spending 3 months inside every year because it's so unbelievably hot.
Be prepared to risk life and limb every time you venture onto the roads.
Go and find out what they have to say but compare it with what you have read here, then work out who has the most to gain by misleading you.
However, ensure ask about the unmentioned aspects of life in the Pit.
Ask why after announcing enormous large profits the work force, operational crew, were just awarded the contractial step dressed up as a pay rise .
Ask about the real cost of schooling for your kids, especially in secondary school.
Definitely ask why it's so difficult for crews to take leave.
Ask what the operational reason is for limiting strings of days off to 5, even when max hours have been reached.
Have a really good think what spending 3 months inside every year because it's so unbelievably hot.
Be prepared to risk life and limb every time you venture onto the roads.
Go and find out what they have to say but compare it with what you have read here, then work out who has the most to gain by misleading you.
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The fact that leave is unavailable only screens the theft which occurs once you do get leave.
You can see concrete examples of this in a number of the preceding posts. If you are sufficiently unfortunate to take a small number of leave days in a calendar month it is quite easy to see that in many cases you will be assigned the same number of hours as you would have flown in a full month of work. Worse, take your roster which has say 7 days leave. Add to those 7 days the number of XX days you have in the remainder of the month. That total number of days free of work you have attained with this tally will often be LESS than pilots who took no leave at all - you will have expended your vacation days and yet had less time off than you would have had you NOT taken holidays.
Cynical, high-handed, morally bereft theft of your leave. Full stop.
You can see concrete examples of this in a number of the preceding posts. If you are sufficiently unfortunate to take a small number of leave days in a calendar month it is quite easy to see that in many cases you will be assigned the same number of hours as you would have flown in a full month of work. Worse, take your roster which has say 7 days leave. Add to those 7 days the number of XX days you have in the remainder of the month. That total number of days free of work you have attained with this tally will often be LESS than pilots who took no leave at all - you will have expended your vacation days and yet had less time off than you would have had you NOT taken holidays.
Cynical, high-handed, morally bereft theft of your leave. Full stop.
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UK Roadshows for EK
Good idea. Give us ideas on what to ask for on road shows. I would also just like to know from the guys working there. The hours of flying and leave problems and hard work is due to pilot shortage at EK. Someone mentioned 500 odd short of crew. If you encourage guys not to come there you are making your own problems just worse. Aren't you. By encouraging guys to come there will fix your complaint about these problems. I know there are other complaints, but just looking at the complaints above you are shooting your self in the foot here. The solution I see for THIS problem is being handled wrong way around.
I know you have lots of other issues and so on and so on.
I know you have lots of other issues and so on and so on.
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..... said the slave to his cousin back in Africa: Come and enjoy the s#!t life here, it'll relieve my working hours in the cotton fields .....
But please come to the new sand pit, with reasoning like that you fit in perfectly!
On another note: Does any one of you guys out there have a clue as to how we can get passed the message not to come to the sand pit?
It seems as the more pilots ask us about reports how it really is, the more idiots from outside seem attracted to try to prove us wrong!
But please come to the new sand pit, with reasoning like that you fit in perfectly!
On another note: Does any one of you guys out there have a clue as to how we can get passed the message not to come to the sand pit?
It seems as the more pilots ask us about reports how it really is, the more idiots from outside seem attracted to try to prove us wrong!
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Just flew with an FO who told me 30% of his intake of FOs has left within three years.
The company has raised the bond to 5 years and 45,000USD (I understand) and now people taking out the car loan have to sign an undated cheque to the company before they get the money. If you leave without paying it back, they'll bank the cheque and lay criminal charges against you when the cheque bounces. The same sort of financial handcuffs that the banks here use. I would strongly recommend NEVER doing doing anything of the sort unless you have the cash to pay off the loan if you want to leave any time soon.
This is desperation...and not exactly conducive to convincing people the company is a friendly place to come work.
Unable to recruit, unable to retain existing pilots and cabin crew....but thankfully TCAS "isn't losing any sleep over it"..in his own words.
The company has raised the bond to 5 years and 45,000USD (I understand) and now people taking out the car loan have to sign an undated cheque to the company before they get the money. If you leave without paying it back, they'll bank the cheque and lay criminal charges against you when the cheque bounces. The same sort of financial handcuffs that the banks here use. I would strongly recommend NEVER doing doing anything of the sort unless you have the cash to pay off the loan if you want to leave any time soon.
This is desperation...and not exactly conducive to convincing people the company is a friendly place to come work.
Unable to recruit, unable to retain existing pilots and cabin crew....but thankfully TCAS "isn't losing any sleep over it"..in his own words.
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lol777.
I am only trying to present prospective newbies to the Pit all the information to be able to make a balanced choice that is best for them.
The points I suggested will not be aired by the recruitment team unless raised by the audience.
After all, knowledge is power.
I am only trying to present prospective newbies to the Pit all the information to be able to make a balanced choice that is best for them.
The points I suggested will not be aired by the recruitment team unless raised by the audience.
After all, knowledge is power.
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So if you have been doing for 5 years then you have sustained the rosters for 5 years. Company will not thank you when you leave. But they got @ 5000 hrs from you.the next guy will sustain the rosters for how ever long it takes him to leave and so on and so on. Everyone needs to know you are replaceable regardless of any pilot shortage. EK could care less about your concerns of sustaining the current rosters .
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lol777
I think that most guys here have lost faith that rosters will improve by any degree if they suddenly find more pilots.
They will not because pilot welfare (and of course staff welfare in general) appears to be such a low priority that if they can possibly make their current pilot group work harder they will do, they simply do not seem to care about reasonable limits. If they could make guys work every day, they would. The fact that people might be unhappy and leave simply does not seem to concern them.
If new guys join, they will not help to improve rosters for the guys working here already, they will simply crew new routes and new aeroplanes, and will feel a bit dim for thinking that everyone's roster would get better because they'd joined...and for not listening to the pages and pages and pages of complaint threads that have started on this forum over the last year or so.
That's a shame because this place could so easily be the best airline in the world to work for, but unless they start to appreciate their crew it will continue to be an unhappy, demoralized workplace...and there seem to be no plans and no interest in changing this. Most worryingly, passengers seem to be noticing now. Flown a 380 recently? Never seen such disinterested or frazzled staff anywhere else!
I think that most guys here have lost faith that rosters will improve by any degree if they suddenly find more pilots.
They will not because pilot welfare (and of course staff welfare in general) appears to be such a low priority that if they can possibly make their current pilot group work harder they will do, they simply do not seem to care about reasonable limits. If they could make guys work every day, they would. The fact that people might be unhappy and leave simply does not seem to concern them.
If new guys join, they will not help to improve rosters for the guys working here already, they will simply crew new routes and new aeroplanes, and will feel a bit dim for thinking that everyone's roster would get better because they'd joined...and for not listening to the pages and pages and pages of complaint threads that have started on this forum over the last year or so.
That's a shame because this place could so easily be the best airline in the world to work for, but unless they start to appreciate their crew it will continue to be an unhappy, demoralized workplace...and there seem to be no plans and no interest in changing this. Most worryingly, passengers seem to be noticing now. Flown a 380 recently? Never seen such disinterested or frazzled staff anywhere else!
Last edited by 170to5; 9th Jun 2015 at 12:16.
