Where did all the applications go?
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foswillrule, qualified is not the same as suitable. If you hadn't noticed yet being able to fly the aircraft is only a small part of being a commercial pilot, and an even smaller part of being a Captain. The people EK recruit today are all being hired as future Captains, possibly in only a few years.
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BigGeordie i don't want to mean any disrespect but a few years happen to be approximately about 8 years now.
Besides, i think most of the majors in UAE are looking for the same suitibility.
I don't think EY or QR or any other major company are looking for just looking for a person with flight hours and flight hours only.
So how did %90 of people who were rejected by EK found a job on the equivalent companies? Do they look for something that is only visible to the EK HR?
A pilot with enough hours to join EK can get the upgrade in 3-4 years in QR which is half time of EK.
However as everyone in the business knows that if your have the material, you have it. If you don't, you don't get recruited by any of the companies mentioned above.
So what is the big mystery here? Am i terribly missing something?
Besides, i think most of the majors in UAE are looking for the same suitibility.
I don't think EY or QR or any other major company are looking for just looking for a person with flight hours and flight hours only.
So how did %90 of people who were rejected by EK found a job on the equivalent companies? Do they look for something that is only visible to the EK HR?
A pilot with enough hours to join EK can get the upgrade in 3-4 years in QR which is half time of EK.
However as everyone in the business knows that if your have the material, you have it. If you don't, you don't get recruited by any of the companies mentioned above.
So what is the big mystery here? Am i terribly missing something?
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So how did %90 of people who were rejected by EK found a job on the equivalent companies?
I guess today it looks a little different though ..... times change, I would not wish for a recall, buddy!
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Well i just want it for my friends. I already found my company or they find me. Anyway, just wanted show how a company can change total strategy in just 3 months, after they have eliminated so many people. If they start calling people back, that would be good, but i am pretty sure that people who attend to the assessments will start passing with a rate of at least 80% and that won't be a coincidence. If you need pilots; you prepare the assessments and recruit, if you don't need you just freeze them until further notification. You don't assess a lot of people and fail them out of nothing and say that they can't reapply for 2 years. That shouldn't be the way of doing things.
This is like looking for a 10, eliminating all the 8s and 9s, ending up with 6s lol
This is like looking for a 10, eliminating all the 8s and 9s, ending up with 6s lol
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Schnowzer,
What i understand from your words is that, EK doesn't hire very good pilots and very good people combined together, but only average pilots with average personality and try to train them into better but not very good?
How can that be a company aim?
I find that a little funny. Of course the aim is to get people highly trainable but that doesn't mean that a person can be on a good level and cannot be trained. as achieving to a certain level can very the time needed to be spent but just for that, idea of hiring what is "below good" is just doesn't fit the daily world...
Plus it doesn't add up with the thread. Where did all the 6s go?
What i understand from your words is that, EK doesn't hire very good pilots and very good people combined together, but only average pilots with average personality and try to train them into better but not very good?
How can that be a company aim?
I find that a little funny. Of course the aim is to get people highly trainable but that doesn't mean that a person can be on a good level and cannot be trained. as achieving to a certain level can very the time needed to be spent but just for that, idea of hiring what is "below good" is just doesn't fit the daily world...
Plus it doesn't add up with the thread. Where did all the 6s go?
Fos,
I think Schnowzer is pretty close to the truth. The EK recruitment team are very experienced. They hire hundreds and hundreds of pilots each year. They know what they want. EK has struggled to find pilots on many occasions, but still has not lowered the bar in quality of the pilot, but have lowered the hour requirement.
When you arrive for interview with Ek, you basically have the job, unless you can't fly or get along with the other kids in the group.
I think Schnowzer is pretty close to the truth. The EK recruitment team are very experienced. They hire hundreds and hundreds of pilots each year. They know what they want. EK has struggled to find pilots on many occasions, but still has not lowered the bar in quality of the pilot, but have lowered the hour requirement.
When you arrive for interview with Ek, you basically have the job, unless you can't fly or get along with the other kids in the group.
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I was actually putting a line in the water. It doesn't matter where you set the bar, you will always have above average and below average pilots relative to the standard set.
You just need pilots that will fit into the company culture, that have the requisite experience, the right psych profile and aptitude to do well. The pilots that fail the selection have come up short in one of those categories. The bar set at selection matches the entry into the training system and the worst pilot selected should be able to pass the training at minimum standard otherwise the recruiters have failed.
Don, I remember when.....
You just need pilots that will fit into the company culture, that have the requisite experience, the right psych profile and aptitude to do well. The pilots that fail the selection have come up short in one of those categories. The bar set at selection matches the entry into the training system and the worst pilot selected should be able to pass the training at minimum standard otherwise the recruiters have failed.
Don, I remember when.....
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Fos, I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Emirates is my fourth airline (5th if you include military) in over 30 years of flying wide body aircraft and I have to say the standards I continually see on the Flight Deck are right up there with the best I have ever seen.
Given the way the diverse nationalities and associated cultures that inhabit an Emirates Flight Deck get along professionally and socially, I would have to say that Emirates has got its recruitment standards pretty much spot on.
Hours requirements may get lowered but it won't (I hope) affect the basic skill sets and personality scope that we have had since way before I joined.
Given the way the diverse nationalities and associated cultures that inhabit an Emirates Flight Deck get along professionally and socially, I would have to say that Emirates has got its recruitment standards pretty much spot on.
Hours requirements may get lowered but it won't (I hope) affect the basic skill sets and personality scope that we have had since way before I joined.
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OK i need to take a step back here.
I have never said that they are recruiting pilots below the average. I am saying that as they are recruiting, they miss a lot of good pilots, too.
Some of the guys i know could definetely be successful with the training and could adapt the environment pretty easily. However they chose not to pick any of them.
I have been informed that they were(the ones in the group work) getting along pretty good, however just 1 out of 8-10-12 has been picked. So you don't have the job even you do the testing good and get along with the other kids and even very skilled in handling.
But if the working conditions continue like this EK will come to crossroads; either opening the reapplications of the ones they didn't pick and do the reassessment more detailed, or they will lower the standarts. I don't see any other way for a company which is trying to grow bigger.
I have never said that they are recruiting pilots below the average. I am saying that as they are recruiting, they miss a lot of good pilots, too.
Some of the guys i know could definetely be successful with the training and could adapt the environment pretty easily. However they chose not to pick any of them.
I have been informed that they were(the ones in the group work) getting along pretty good, however just 1 out of 8-10-12 has been picked. So you don't have the job even you do the testing good and get along with the other kids and even very skilled in handling.
But if the working conditions continue like this EK will come to crossroads; either opening the reapplications of the ones they didn't pick and do the reassessment more detailed, or they will lower the standarts. I don't see any other way for a company which is trying to grow bigger.
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@Outatowner:
Would you prefer a fat bald guy with a 60 inch waist and an overhanging belly and six chins jiggling under his face? Not to mention holdalls under the eyes, beetling eyebrows and a scowl to scare the barnyard fox?
Strange tastes.....
Would you prefer a fat bald guy with a 60 inch waist and an overhanging belly and six chins jiggling under his face? Not to mention holdalls under the eyes, beetling eyebrows and a scowl to scare the barnyard fox?
Strange tastes.....
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HR Lady
Grandad,
I think what the out oftowner was alluding to is the blatant unprofessionalism of many in the EK HR brigade. We are required to attend ground school in uniform and in the same fashion, always display a smart efficient looking presence while on duty. One of them once came to my wash up dressed like she was going on the school run: no make up, no jewellery, cargo pants, t-shirt and hair stuck on the top of her head with a spring grip. She proceeded to deliver an unrehearsed, fractured and utterly meaningless diatribe containing the kind of rubbish we'd all heard before and more or less declined to answer any of the hard questions that were put to her. She had absolutely no credibility and I(we) were insulted that she had come before us in a professional environment without the slightest regard for her dress. It sums up the contempt in which we are held by those in Handbrake House.
Apologies if off topic.
Bloggs.
I think what the out oftowner was alluding to is the blatant unprofessionalism of many in the EK HR brigade. We are required to attend ground school in uniform and in the same fashion, always display a smart efficient looking presence while on duty. One of them once came to my wash up dressed like she was going on the school run: no make up, no jewellery, cargo pants, t-shirt and hair stuck on the top of her head with a spring grip. She proceeded to deliver an unrehearsed, fractured and utterly meaningless diatribe containing the kind of rubbish we'd all heard before and more or less declined to answer any of the hard questions that were put to her. She had absolutely no credibility and I(we) were insulted that she had come before us in a professional environment without the slightest regard for her dress. It sums up the contempt in which we are held by those in Handbrake House.
Apologies if off topic.
Bloggs.
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HR Lady
Your point appreciated Bloggson, Outatowner.
In any industry, leave alone aviation, unprofessionalism and hypocrisy should NOT be tolerated under any circs. But the focus shifts away from the critique of unprofessional-ism and turns towards sexism with such comments.
Maybe my salt n'pepper beetling eyebrows talkin' but gentlemen n' ladies.....!!
In any industry, leave alone aviation, unprofessionalism and hypocrisy should NOT be tolerated under any circs. But the focus shifts away from the critique of unprofessional-ism and turns towards sexism with such comments.
Maybe my salt n'pepper beetling eyebrows talkin' but gentlemen n' ladies.....!!
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foswillruletheworld, the thing is that they look for a specific personality profile that they deem adequate for the job.
Of course, judging that profile from psychometric tests and a 30 minute interview alone, will eventually have some collateral damage.
I have some friends who I consider among the best pilots/professionals/people I have ever come across that didn't make it through day 3.
On the other hand, I have some other friends who made up all the answers to the "tell me about a time when" questions and got the job.
HR will always be an imperfect system...
Of course, judging that profile from psychometric tests and a 30 minute interview alone, will eventually have some collateral damage.
I have some friends who I consider among the best pilots/professionals/people I have ever come across that didn't make it through day 3.
On the other hand, I have some other friends who made up all the answers to the "tell me about a time when" questions and got the job.
HR will always be an imperfect system...
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EK Recruitment
Fos,
EK recruitment is top notch. A few things perhaps you may need to consider are.
1. The training pass rate of those who are hired is very high. (DEC's not as high but still pretty good.) EK uses this a matrix on how effective their selection process is. EK gets very upset at recruiting when the failure rate exceeds the threshold. It not only costs EK $$$ but also they now have to hire ANOTHER pilot. EK recruitment tends to err on the conservative side when hiring, as they are running the numbers so tight they can not afford to lose one in training. Being able to read write and understand English is always at the top of the list, as poor English compounds issues in training.
2. Everyone has a bad day. An applicant may have simply misunderstood a question in the interview or did not give the warm fuzzy feeling to the sim guy. Also, yes even recruiters make mistakes. Everyone feels they should be hired, but not all of us are. These guys and gals process dozens of applicants a week and have been doing so for a very long time.
If you are not selected, don't take it personally (Unless you failed the personality test.) Be honest with yourself on what you could have done better, and go kick a$$ on the next interview. There are many many opportunities out there and several that are much better than EK.
ALL this is IMHO
EK recruitment is top notch. A few things perhaps you may need to consider are.
1. The training pass rate of those who are hired is very high. (DEC's not as high but still pretty good.) EK uses this a matrix on how effective their selection process is. EK gets very upset at recruiting when the failure rate exceeds the threshold. It not only costs EK $$$ but also they now have to hire ANOTHER pilot. EK recruitment tends to err on the conservative side when hiring, as they are running the numbers so tight they can not afford to lose one in training. Being able to read write and understand English is always at the top of the list, as poor English compounds issues in training.
2. Everyone has a bad day. An applicant may have simply misunderstood a question in the interview or did not give the warm fuzzy feeling to the sim guy. Also, yes even recruiters make mistakes. Everyone feels they should be hired, but not all of us are. These guys and gals process dozens of applicants a week and have been doing so for a very long time.
If you are not selected, don't take it personally (Unless you failed the personality test.) Be honest with yourself on what you could have done better, and go kick a$$ on the next interview. There are many many opportunities out there and several that are much better than EK.
ALL this is IMHO
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Fortune spent in recruitment at EK........
Isn't it somewhat amazing that as some of the correspondence above confirms, EK are prepared to spend a fortune on getting the recruitment process right........ and seemingly nothing in getting the process of retention right....... How many more guys and girls would stay longer if only the company cared about their wellbeing after hiring them?
To miss out on such a large part of the employment process...... now that really is a waste of money.
To miss out on such a large part of the employment process...... now that really is a waste of money.
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having done some recruiting here and there, I would venture to say, many would be surprised, perhaps shocked, at some of the answers and what not, in the one and one interviews. You will walk out of the interview and shake your head and ask yourself, did this pilot really want to get hired when he mentioned or said xyz? They all might be solid citizens and pilots in one's eye, but their judgment can come into to question with the whole interview process, answers and all.
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EK Requirement drop??
Hello all,
just flown with my personal assistant
and CSA 
(Cockpit Sanitary Assistant) and one of them mentioned that EK has now set the entry requirement at 1500hrs Turboprop?? Any truth in that?
Just pointing it out..
Pointer
just flown with my personal assistant
and CSA (Cockpit Sanitary Assistant) and one of them mentioned that EK has now set the entry requirement at 1500hrs Turboprop?? Any truth in that? Just pointing it out..
Pointer
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I did not check the website but Emirates will have to lower the requirements soon if they haven't done so already.
No one is coming. If they are qualified most go to the Unmentionable and Qatar.
It is going to get real interesting in the months to come.
No one is coming. If they are qualified most go to the Unmentionable and Qatar.
It is going to get real interesting in the months to come.