"You could be next”

[Bluewater777]

Most of you would probably agree that to speak out against anyone in a position of power, in this part of the world (DUBAI) at least, seems a pointless exercise. We accept that part of having “a good job” involves giving our silent consent to those who would commit injustices against us. We become complicit in our own misery because we are too afraid of what might happen if we voice our concerns. But any time we witness an injustice and don’t act, we train our character to become passive in the presence of injustice and eventually lose all ability to defend ourselves and the ones we love.

Please sign our petition (link below). Anonymously if you prefer.

https://www.change.org/p/hh-shk-moha...concepts-vs-lo

“Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope….and crossing each other from a million different centres of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.” – Robert Kennedy

“People beware of injustice, for injustice shall be darkness on the Day of Judgment”. – Muhammad

[too_much]

Sounds like a lost cause, if something was going to be done about this it would have been done by now.

It's only money, money doesn't make you happy....

Learn from the experience and perhaps don't do buisness in such a place in future.

[harry the cod]

I think that's just the point. Whether justice is eventually served remains to be seen but highlighting this 5 year battle to the more trusting or unweary is no bad thing. Some legal battles have gone on far longer than this so there's certainly no harm in pursuing until the last. The more that sign up the better in my opinion.

I have also been flying with a few cabin crew recently who are all investing in some local ponzi scheme offering 9-11% return per month. Yes, stupid I know but these guys are falling for it hook line and sinker. This scam is paying out currently, misguiding those gullible and naive young crew to reinvest and drag their friends in too. The implosion will be spectacular, not if, but when it happens.

Harry

[Nikita81]

@bluewater

No doubt - what happened to you is (a relative) injustice and I support your efforts to achieve your goal. I sincerely do. People should sign your petition.

Nevertheless, you have opened several threads with the same message on this forum - "you could be next" so I really want to ask - how do you know that? Not all of us have a desire to invest in Dubai where abuse of workers (especially construction workers) is well known and almost unstoppable. As someone already said: other people are abused so that investors can get their investment back. It's injustice as well.

You have invested money and when you didn't get your investment back you have decided to involve ideals in it.

It is very true what Kennedy said but not when money is involved. Ideals have nothing to do with the profit and your message is a kind of emotional manipulation.

Just leave it as it is - you were scammed and you want what belongs to you by the law.

[Bluewater777]

Nikita81

Thank you for your support and encouragement for others to sign our petition.

"You could be next" so I really want to ask - how do you know that? I know because I lived in Dubai for 12 years. I know what happened to us and others and continues to do so. Nothing in Dubai has changed. Nothing will change until we stand up to make it happen. Dubai’s skill is convincing the world via shrewd marketing and media control that they practice rule of law & justice when in fact they only do so when it suits them. Thats my point. You cant just practice what you preach when it suits you.

Kennedy said: Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice. In fact we are fighting for all these - ideals, improving conditions for others and injustice. If our case is not injustice in action then I really don't know what is. I am sure if he were alive to day he would be a supporter.

Not all of us have a desire to invest in Dubai where abuse of workers (especially construction workers) is well known and almost unstoppable. As someone already said: other people are abused so that investors can get their investment back. Its injustice as well. OK but this is for those that are thinking of investing in Dubai, UAE. I support your comment but unfortunately that is their fight. Their choice. It is my opinion the construction workers that have built Dubai are the heroes. They are the only ones that I know of that had the XXX to actively protest their conditions (marching on Shk Zayed Road, etc).

Just leave it as it is - you were scammed and you want what belongs to you by the law. I can appreciate what you are saying but if we all accepted things as they are or left it as it is we simply become one of them! This is not who I am. I am simply asking people to support us and stand up for what is right.

You must appreciate this gentleman's company stole the life savings of 87 families (ref: DIFC ARB001/2010), absconded from Dubai to live in Egypt, was sued successfully via an international sanctioned jurisdiction (DIFC & Dubai Courts) and returned 4 years later to live next door to the people he fleeced and the Dubai police, CID, DIFC & Dubai courts, rulers office, lawyers i.e. the UAE and Dubai justice system simply wont act as they broadcast internationally.

Frankly, Dubai and its airline should be boycotted by all decent people. If you wish to live by a 3rd world justice system then that’s fine but don't promulgate to the world that you practice rule of law when you don’t! DIFC ARB001/2010 is one case that is proof of that.

Nigel

[Bluewater777]

Wow thats quite an attitude you have/had there Droop the Pilot.

I see you deleted your post...why? Regardless as I saw it I will respond. I have a copy if you don't. Maybe I can organise an interview for you when we come to Dubai. Please post your actual name and contact details and I will be in touch. Yeah right!

You remind me of someone who is argumentative or just plain cantankerous. I note you post .07 posts per day on PPRUNE. I think that says enough about your habits and personality.

I suggest you don't jump to conclusions regard my personality and lifestyle.

My maid, Lucy Fernandes was 60+ when she retired, her children were all grown up and was much more like my mother than a maid. Ask any neighbour that knew her/us? Lucy lived in a bedroom in my home with my family. Fact is I used my last first class ticket to fly her out from India to NZ to stay with us (I needed some washing done) and travel New Zealand staying with friends and family for a month. Lucy remains a friend to this day and is very appreciative of her time with us.

I always washed my own car and never withheld anyones passport.

I never visited Trader Vic’s. I don't drink alcohol. I don't smoke. I have no need to visit bars.

I pursued what I considered to be educated property investments. I conduct extensive due diligence on all my investments. Dubai or other. In the UAE that included an extremely experienced legal team within the DIFC making recommendations based on information we provided. It is fortunate we had the foresight to utilise the DIFC-LCIA in our contracts/MoU as without our current award we would be still chasing our tail in the Dubai Court of first Instance. We are just chasing it now attempting to get Shk. Mohammed and the Dubai police/CID to do their job.

I agree with you. I always felt concerned for the construction workers in the UAE. The fact we invested there may mean we indirectly leveraged on that.

For the record many of the 82 families you disrespect with your comments (actually 87) you refer to are 'brown people'. However - white, black, brown, red or green - its makes no difference. Justice is Justice and justice delayed is justice denied no matter what your colour. The fact you feel it’s ok for a UAE national to steal the life savings of 87 families - run away from Dubai - bury his head in the sand for 4 years - return to live next door to the people he fleeced - and his local police, CID conveniently ignore his arrest warrant - makes you a disgraceful, unworthy individual.

If you have genuinely read our 5 year struggle for justice on change.org (which is the tip of the iceberg) and respond with your silly immature post I truly feel for your longevity.

Nigel

[too_much]

Did you see the film tower heist with Ben Stiller?

Is this a similar story to that film? I just wondered if there is some less than legal way to get even with your guy....

[Nikita81]

I support your comment but unfortunately that is their fight. Their
choice.

By your logic, Bluewater, this petition is your fight and your choice so why should anyone bother to sign your petition and fight your fight? You have finished with your support to the workers by saying that they are the heroes. Keneddy would ask you - and how does that help them?

Fight for ideals would mean that you would actually make a petition to expand third world's workers' choices and help them live better. You are pulling the ideals card when it suits you and when it doesn't you just tell - it's their fight and their choice. I don't like that.

Regarding having a maid, giving her a first class ticket and washing the car by yourself - in Serbia we would ask you: do you expect a medal for that?

I also don't appreciate when you insult people who don't agree with you.

[harry the cod]

Nikita81

Whilst I do empathise with your fight against EK, I do wonder at times why you feel the need to fight every battle. This isn't yours to fight, it's for those who have already invested or are thinking of putting possible life savings into Dubai PLC.

As you so often keep telling us, you were 'duped' into a different job than advertised. PC investors have also been caught in a scheme which is not as advertised. We could go round and round in cirlces arguing the moral high ground about workers rights and living conditions and how unfair Dubai is but ultimately the issues are the same. People trusted what was promised and have been lied to. You're warning people of your personal experience, so is Bluewater777

If you just slowed down and took a deep breath for a minute, you might just realise you're fighting on the same side!

Harry

[Nikita81]

And I am not fighting this battle, I am just commenting it and only after a couple of threads are open here on the same subject.

I've also supported your fight, I just didn't like the fact that you are playing on the ideals card when it is obviously not the case for many reasons.

We are not fighting on the same side. I never had a maid, I never owned a car or money to invest in Dubai properties, so you can consider me more as a fighter on a third side of this game - workers' one.

For me this is the same as you have invested in EK and they screwed you. So, you were not bothered with workers' rights before you invested and you used ideals rhetoric only after you were cheated while for me it's all the same because I am just abused for everyone's profit, including yours.

And from that perspective I am telling you that you are not fighting for ideals. If you were fighting for them you would have considered workers' position and whose backs you are making money on before you have invested.

Now you are just fighting against local injustice. This is what i have to say in explanation on why I've decided to comment here.

No hard feelings. Good luck in your fight and may that bas*ard pay for what he did.

[skyvan]

I wonder how Shk Mo would respond if this was aired by everyone's favorite reporter, Richard Quest?

Maybe he could use this as an attempt to regain what many consider his lost journalistic integrity.

[MR8]

Divide et impera

We are not fighting on the same side. I never had a maid, I never owned a car or money to invest in Dubai properties, so you can consider me more as a fighter on a third side of this game - workers' one.

My poor Nikita, you just lost quite a bit of the respect I had for you by writing that line. It just shows how little insight you have in the way things work. Pot - kettle - black comes to mind here..

Bluewater used to be an Emirates captain, who through hard work was able to provide his family with a car, a maid and maybe countless other things that you will never be able to afford. But above all, he was also just a worker, hired to do a job and being paid for it.
Anticipating your obvious reply: where would you draw a line between being a worker and not? Groundstaff are workers but pilots are not? Or maybe First officers are but not captains? What about the numerous purser that have been here a long time and provide for their families? Or maybe it's about what you have? I have a car - I'm not a worker anymore?
Oh yeah, and can you please remove all the pilots and cabin crew stories from your website then, because we apparently are not part of your battle?

An when it comes to ideals: ideals get born out of personal mishaps. How can you claim you fight for ideals but Bluewater doesn't? I have been following you from your first public appearances, and you stood up because YOU were not treated the way you wanted to. YOU then didn't get your end of service benefits and then YOU decided to go public with YOUR story on which you got lots of replies and support. Later, after lots of similar feedback from colleagues, YOUR problem became OUR problem and you could claim now that indeed you fight about ideals now, but never forget why you started the fight, because of your personal experiences. Bluewater is doing the same thing here, sharing his personal experience with loads of other people to start a platform on which not only his problem might be solved, but other's peoples problem as well, so he is fighting for ideals as much as you are.

What you are doing now is putting your ideal above his ideal, claiming that you are on third side, while you are fighting the same enemy for exactly the same root cause: not honouring made agreements by the local authorities.

[Kamelchaser]

Nikita81,

I have to ask...do you own an iPhone, or any apple product for that matter? Apple is the world's richest company, and makes much of its profit on the back of shockingly poor working conditions in factories in Asia.

Buying their products, or the products of pretty much every major phone manufacturer in the world, is no different to someone investing in property in Dubai according to your argument.

[Nikita81]

My poor Nikita, you just lost quite a bit of the respect I had for you by writing that line

I expect that many would think like you do. Nevertheless, I was never a kiss ass, so I am always prepared to have some people change their opinion on me.

Anticipating your obvious reply: where would you draw a line between being a worker and not?

Obviously, I was talking about regular lower grade staff (and construction workers). It is just a coincidence that pilots are treated like **** in EK as well. Surely you would not put yourself in a same basket with Asians whose passports are taken away and who live in a 3 square metres with 5 other persons, without a toilet? And you are proud on yourselves for washing your cars on your own? (sorry, Serbian mentality again ).

But let me tell you something: I got a lot of support emails from pilots but not even one bad experience of theirs to be published. I don't know why is that and I don't think about the possible reasons and I don't expect them to send it to me, but if I am to draw a conclusion from that: ground staff and cabin crew are obviously more endangered and poor.

and you stood up because YOU were not treated the way you wanted to. YOU then didn't get your end of service benefits and then YOU decided to go public with YOUR story on which you got lots of replies and support

I have never mentioned my ideals or that I am fighting for ideals, because I wouldn't be so arrogant to ever say so (in public).

Nevertheless, I started my fight long before I went to public and I was fired for underlying bad working conditions on the open forum. So, it was my personal experience (as everything is) but based on injustice done to me AND my friends and colleagues. I could never calmly stand and watch an injustice happens to someone else.

I started the blog with my case because I could prove it with facts, emails and records. But it was done on purpose. I wanted to draw the public attention for everyone, not just for me. There are much worse cases in EK than mine, but I had proves for mine. Read the Open letter again. It says "we", not "me" and it was sent to the chairman first, just for his eyes.

I insist on my EOSB because this is what I can prove in any court of law. My official reason for fight. If you ask me unofficially - I have decided to raise my voice against bastards. That's it.

I have to ask...do you own an iPhone

No.

while you are fighting the same enemy for exactly the same root cause: not honouring made agreements by the local authorities.

We are fighting the same enemy I agree, but not on the same side. You wanted to use the system in a same way locals use it and you got screwed because locals are on the top of the food chain. But did you ever think about who is on the bottom of that chain? You have decided to invest in the system whose victims you are?

What happened to you was the risk of your investment. You knew that system is rotten and you knew that justice is not working where you have invested.

You have gambled and lost because your opponent cheated. And you do have the right to be angry but you are not fighting for ideals.

Your fight can draw attention to problems that expatriates encounter in UAE, but that doesn't give you the right to call it "ideals". No (big) money can ever be involved where ideals take place because your only goal when you are an idealist is good for everyone, not just for one group of people. I am not even sure that I am one (idealist). I often find myself bull****ting about my ideals, but only lying to myself.

But at least I find it important to make a difference between ideals and personal interest and abuse of ideals.

I will repeat: I understand you, it is difficult to lose everything you have and to start again from the zero (it's just that I am used to always starting from the zero by living in Serbia). I support your fight and I wish you justice.

[MR8]

Obviously, I was talking about regular lower grade staff (and construction workers). It is just a coincidence that pilots are treated like **** in EK as well. Surely you would not put yourself in a same basket with Asians whose passports are taken away and who live in a 3 square metres with 5 other persons, without a toilet? And you are proud on yourselves for washing your cars on your own? (sorry, Serbian mentality again ).

Well, I don't think it's that obvious. Again, where do you draw the line? A 22 year old grade 2 who gets paid every month around 8000 DHS but complains because she has to work for it is not an asian worker who shares his bedroom with 5 others to send his money home every month for his family to survive. Who are you to decide who is a worker and who isn't?

But let me tell you something: I got a lot of support emails from pilots but not even one bad experience of theirs to be published. I don't know why is that and I don't think about the possible reasons and I don't expect them to send it to me, but if I am to draw a conclusion from that: ground staff and cabin crew are obviously more endangered and poor.

Ever thought about that pilots in general don't have any other options than flying planes. Did you ever think about what it takes to become a pilot? How many sacrifices most people have to make before even being able to work for an airline? You are obviously very much out of touch with reality and have no idea what is happening in the world outside of your own little sphere or maybe Serbia.

Also, most pilots at Emirates are quite a bit more mature then your average ground staff or cabin crew, so they know how the system works. They have absolutely no need to go and cry to the public on how badly they are treated.

Nevertheless, I started my fight long before I went to public and I was fired for underlying bad working conditions on the open forum. So, it was my personal experience (as everything is) but based on injustice done to me AND my friends and colleagues. I could never calmly stand and watch an injustice happens to someone else.

I started the blog with my case because I could prove it with facts, emails and records. But it was done on purpose. I wanted to draw the public attention for everyone, not just for me. There are much worse cases in EK than mine, but I had proves for mine. Read the Open letter again. It says "we", not "me" and it was sent to the chairman first, just for his eyes.

I insist on my EOSB because this is what I can prove in any court of law.

Bluewater started his fight 5 years ago, never went public until now. He is fighting for an injustice done to him AND 86 other families (do you have 86 official testimonies that are not anonymous??). Bluewater started the petition because they have won a court case years ago and nothing happens. He don't even need to prove it with facts, it's all out and available in the public records for anyone to read through the court case that was won. He wants to draw public attention to how a won court case is handled for everybody who even thinks about investing in Dubai. His petition is for 87 families, not for him personal, although he si the one who took the initiative. Again, do you have 86 others who gave you factual prove of mistreatment or are most of your stories based on anonymous testimonies and hearsay?

One last thing: your battle is more about revenge then it is about idealism. You try to bring down the people that did you wrong by naming and shaming them, nothing idealistic about that and very personal. But then again, it's probably some kind of Serbian idealism that I'm not aware of.

[Nikita81]

And you somehow managed to avoid all of the hot subjects from my post.

And you continue to slip into snobbery and elitism which is EXACTLY the reason why I have difficulties with your "idealism".

They have absolutely no need to go and cry to the public on how badly they are treated.

You mean - except on PPRuNE? And in your petition?

He is fighting for an injustice done to him AND 86 other families (do you have 86 official testimonies that are not anonymous??

Is this a competition?

One last thing: your battle is more about revenge then it is about idealism. You try to bring down the people that did you wrong by naming and shaming them, nothing idealistic about that and very personal. But then again, it's probably some kind of Serbian idealism that I'm not aware of.

Now you are aware of "Serbian idealism" and we can say that it enabled and encouraged many people to share their experience in public. Serbian way is obviously working. I never said it was a true idealism.

This is the simple truth: you tried to utilize the system although you knew it was bad and when it didn't give you what you have expected you turned against it. And this happened only because you lost money (personal interest) and not because system was bad and exploitative per se at the first place (which is what idealism is).

I have nothing against your fight (I would gladly see greedy bastards in the jail), but I have a strong reaction on your claims that you defend the world and other unsuspecting expatriate investors.

Sorry, Serbia was never a colonialist or invasive country, so I don't quite understand how should I empathize with you more that poor Bangladeshi dying to build the property you invested in.

[BYMONEK]

Gents, I'd give up if I were you. Nikita81 is a woman. Women always have the last word and are always right! Just go back to drinking your cognac and smoking the cigars while the maid dusts all the sand of your car. That's what I'm doing!

[Nikita81]

Just go back to drinking your cognac and smoking the cigars while the maid dusts all the sand of your car

They would, but they can't afford it anymore.

[Eau de Boeing]

Speak for yourself..... My maid loves Louis 13th

[T O G A Boy]

My God, this is escalating into a serious personal issue.

Eau De Boeing, I can't stop giggling on your comment