EK-777 F/O's in January
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Not at EK :)
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Glad you are well and enjoying the festivities.
I agree with your point about people saying the same thing ten years ago.
Now it is very different, though. The two blogs mentioned previously are proving very damaging to the recruitment effort. There is a third that refers to a non aviation side of EK. That again has caused uproar with our friends in Umm Ramool. People who know the business and who care are leaving in droves. Across departments. The recent survey (results still not released) and sackings showed how out of touch they are in HQ.
Inflation, Meydan Labour Camp, Unavailability of swaps, max hours and the latest from the Medical Clinic about drinking
The culture of fear is breaking down by the day and people really don't care like they used to. The service is plummeting and as the other two main Gulf carriers increase their network, EK will suffer further.
The viciousness and high handedness of our senior management ensured their bonuses. Now it will ensure their downfall. I will leave at the end of the school year as my kids come first.
They know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Ts and Cs will be further eroded until they will wake up and see the disaster they have precided over. Gulf Air MK2. The idiots will never learn.
I agree with your point about people saying the same thing ten years ago.
Now it is very different, though. The two blogs mentioned previously are proving very damaging to the recruitment effort. There is a third that refers to a non aviation side of EK. That again has caused uproar with our friends in Umm Ramool. People who know the business and who care are leaving in droves. Across departments. The recent survey (results still not released) and sackings showed how out of touch they are in HQ.
Inflation, Meydan Labour Camp, Unavailability of swaps, max hours and the latest from the Medical Clinic about drinking
The culture of fear is breaking down by the day and people really don't care like they used to. The service is plummeting and as the other two main Gulf carriers increase their network, EK will suffer further.
The viciousness and high handedness of our senior management ensured their bonuses. Now it will ensure their downfall. I will leave at the end of the school year as my kids come first.
They know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Ts and Cs will be further eroded until they will wake up and see the disaster they have precided over. Gulf Air MK2. The idiots will never learn.
Join Date: Sep 2014
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I know. I found both of his nick names.
You are actually posting here assuming that everyone knows who you are. Seems that you don't follow your own principles. 
Who do you work for?
I can do like you guys, start a thread and just assume everybody knows who I work for.
Who do you work for?
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I think I mostly agree with Mana.
I know a reasonable number of Americans here; some are trying to leave, many are not. Those that aren't, are they guilty of DUI, do they have child support payments hanging over their head? I don't know, maybe. Are there 200 guys with apps in at American? I doubt it. Where did that number come from? Any evidence to back it up?
China Southern? Been hearing about 'lots' of guys going there for a while now. Hasn't happened, yet. That doesn't mean it won't, but there's no evidence that heaps of guys are just waiting for the call.
Ryan Air? I've lost count of the number of people who told me about the 25 guys who resigned enmasse to go back. I know a few ex-Ryan Air guys. None of them know any of those '25'. The guys I know who left there to come here did it for specific reasons. To a man, those reasons still exist and none are looking to return.
The F/O who resigned, either during the upgrade interview, right after, or after being told he was being delayed by either three or six months, depending on who's telling the story? Again, heard the story plenty of times. Never heard a name, or met anyone who personally knows him. If it happened, good luck to him. It's a small industry and I certainly won't be burning bridges like that.
I have that same seniority list from last year with the same numbers. Significantly less than 5% have left in over 14 months. Those considering will now wait until May, hoping against hope for a big reward. Here's really what I see: a lot of guys staring down the barrel of a tough job that seems to keep getting tougher. We're like that proverbial frog in the water that keeps getting hotter. We hope in vain that the pressure will get too much on the company and they'll be forced to make things better, either better pay, better conditions, or, hopefully, both. We stare at our mates hoping they'll make the difficult move that will apply that pressure. Unfortunately, too few of us are prepared to make that move. Until that changes, it will just keep getting hotter.
I know a reasonable number of Americans here; some are trying to leave, many are not. Those that aren't, are they guilty of DUI, do they have child support payments hanging over their head? I don't know, maybe. Are there 200 guys with apps in at American? I doubt it. Where did that number come from? Any evidence to back it up?
China Southern? Been hearing about 'lots' of guys going there for a while now. Hasn't happened, yet. That doesn't mean it won't, but there's no evidence that heaps of guys are just waiting for the call.
Ryan Air? I've lost count of the number of people who told me about the 25 guys who resigned enmasse to go back. I know a few ex-Ryan Air guys. None of them know any of those '25'. The guys I know who left there to come here did it for specific reasons. To a man, those reasons still exist and none are looking to return.
The F/O who resigned, either during the upgrade interview, right after, or after being told he was being delayed by either three or six months, depending on who's telling the story? Again, heard the story plenty of times. Never heard a name, or met anyone who personally knows him. If it happened, good luck to him. It's a small industry and I certainly won't be burning bridges like that.
I have that same seniority list from last year with the same numbers. Significantly less than 5% have left in over 14 months. Those considering will now wait until May, hoping against hope for a big reward. Here's really what I see: a lot of guys staring down the barrel of a tough job that seems to keep getting tougher. We're like that proverbial frog in the water that keeps getting hotter. We hope in vain that the pressure will get too much on the company and they'll be forced to make things better, either better pay, better conditions, or, hopefully, both. We stare at our mates hoping they'll make the difficult move that will apply that pressure. Unfortunately, too few of us are prepared to make that move. Until that changes, it will just keep getting hotter.
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We're like that proverbial frog in the water that keeps getting hotter. We hope in vain that the pressure will get too much on the company and they'll be forced to make things better, either better pay, better conditions, or, hopefully, both. We stare at our mates hoping they'll make the difficult move that will apply that pressure. Unfortunately, too few of us are prepared to make that move. Until that changes, it will just keep getting hotter.
They are prepared to make that move, apparently.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I like the frog analogy.
I did just look at the bottom guy and see how many he moved up in 14 months.
I guess the only real measure is going through the list name by name. Thats a bit ambitious.
At the end of the day. If you have a better option leave. If you need a job come to Emirates. As someone said "Family comes first". That can mean leaving or coming. Good luck. I'm staying awhile.
I did just look at the bottom guy and see how many he moved up in 14 months.
I guess the only real measure is going through the list name by name. Thats a bit ambitious.
At the end of the day. If you have a better option leave. If you need a job come to Emirates. As someone said "Family comes first". That can mean leaving or coming. Good luck. I'm staying awhile.
Join Date: Sep 2008
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But the true "canary in the mine" is in fact cabin crew resignations. As was stated above, early resignations are happening at a record pace never seen before.
Whatever the reasons, it is happening. 2015 will see a greater number of pilot resignations than years past. Pilots uprooted from their homes of 20 years may have the option (and money) to retire instead of putting up with continual erosion of the T&Cs that don't seem to stop, continued hiring by legacy carriers not just in the US, and the general feeling of frustration with rosters, etc.
Heard of one pilot very close to 777 upgrade that resigned to go fly right sear of an RJ in the US. He figured he would have an easier time getting hired by a legacy after a six month upgrade at the regional than stay here as a 777 captain. Smart move? Who knows at this point. But that tells of the overall dissatisfaction of daily work here.
Ask anyone from fleet what JA deals with daily? It's not operational.
Whatever the reasons, it is happening. 2015 will see a greater number of pilot resignations than years past. Pilots uprooted from their homes of 20 years may have the option (and money) to retire instead of putting up with continual erosion of the T&Cs that don't seem to stop, continued hiring by legacy carriers not just in the US, and the general feeling of frustration with rosters, etc.
Heard of one pilot very close to 777 upgrade that resigned to go fly right sear of an RJ in the US. He figured he would have an easier time getting hired by a legacy after a six month upgrade at the regional than stay here as a 777 captain. Smart move? Who knows at this point. But that tells of the overall dissatisfaction of daily work here.
Ask anyone from fleet what JA deals with daily? It's not operational.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The CC issue is really starting to bite them in the ass. Looks like they are changing the sick note policy for self certification. CC will have to go to the clinic every two days in the near future. That is one of the last things they can do to raise "productivity." Things will continue to slide. Go figure........
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In all truth its probably too late to pull out of the dive they're in.
It would require a complete change of high level management and that won't happen, heck they probably aren't aware there is a problem.
This was all echoed at GF years ago and its how one airline grew to size it is now at the expense of the other.
Wait until the numbers fail them and they get the warning letters, then you'll get to see "fun times at the bouncy castle"
Don't make your roots too deep in the "host city".
It would require a complete change of high level management and that won't happen, heck they probably aren't aware there is a problem.
This was all echoed at GF years ago and its how one airline grew to size it is now at the expense of the other.
Wait until the numbers fail them and they get the warning letters, then you'll get to see "fun times at the bouncy castle"
Don't make your roots too deep in the "host city".
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777,
Heard yesterday from ground staff that flights are sometimes delayed because there is a CC shortage. Really hard for them to cope with the load. On the other hand, I've also heard that Christmas load was not as big number as it was in couple of last years...
Outlaw,
Completely agree. Great post.
Huge (and successful) companies actually need 10 or more years to show the deterioration. So, if "EK pilots' mouths" are opening for the last 10 years, somebody should listen to them.
A child can run a company like EK managers do. Hire new staff when old resign. Don't care about the reasons why staff resign. Spend money on new hire and their trainings instead of staff retention (which inevitably leads to serious degradation of the service quality after 10 or so years), underestimate your staffs' opinion and observations. Intimidate, punish and abuse the fact that unions and strikes are forbidden. Care for your ass only and use company's assets for personal gain.
True management talent lies in listening skills. If employees are talking about it - listen to them and act on it. If they are talking about it for ten years - start to panic. If you fail to panic - start packing your things - you will be notified of redundancy soon enough.
Heard yesterday from ground staff that flights are sometimes delayed because there is a CC shortage. Really hard for them to cope with the load. On the other hand, I've also heard that Christmas load was not as big number as it was in couple of last years...
Outlaw,
Completely agree. Great post.
Huge (and successful) companies actually need 10 or more years to show the deterioration. So, if "EK pilots' mouths" are opening for the last 10 years, somebody should listen to them.
A child can run a company like EK managers do. Hire new staff when old resign. Don't care about the reasons why staff resign. Spend money on new hire and their trainings instead of staff retention (which inevitably leads to serious degradation of the service quality after 10 or so years), underestimate your staffs' opinion and observations. Intimidate, punish and abuse the fact that unions and strikes are forbidden. Care for your ass only and use company's assets for personal gain.
True management talent lies in listening skills. If employees are talking about it - listen to them and act on it. If they are talking about it for ten years - start to panic. If you fail to panic - start packing your things - you will be notified of redundancy soon enough.
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On the topic of F/Os in January- I checked reserve coverage and it looks like about 6% of Boeing guys in each rank are on reserve. Is that about the norm, high or low? Just curious, as that might indicate if we are indeed short. Thanks
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Wash up a couple days ago HR lady said it's 1.8% at the moment. This number is only for resignations, not early retirements. According to her most of them blaming the roster as main reason for leaving.
short flights long nights
Yeh, HR always tell it how it is. Sure they do.
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Sounds like a fairly honest assessment to me.
1.8% matches what I see on the seniority list and I'm sure noone will be surprised that roster is one of the main reasons.
1.8% is an increase as well, albeit still quite low.
1.8% matches what I see on the seniority list and I'm sure noone will be surprised that roster is one of the main reasons.
1.8% is an increase as well, albeit still quite low.
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At the end of the day. If you have a better option leave. If you need a job come to Emirates.
Yeh, HR always tell it how it is. Sure they do.
short flights long nights
I was about to ask, what is the difference between 'early retirement' and resigning because you have had enough?
Personally, I have just done both. And as far as numbers leaving go, if another neighbour pulls the pin anytime soon...that will make 4 this month in our street.
Personally, I have just done both. And as far as numbers leaving go, if another neighbour pulls the pin anytime soon...that will make 4 this month in our street.