EK pilots going to Virgin America
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Oldaircrew
You obviously dont work for EK(airbus) or you would know training event on transition courses are not graded except one or two progress checks...
and the rest of your email is actually not true. I know plenty of people who have been given many extra chances. I dont think you can honestly name one guy that has been let for for failing one event...handing over mate
You obviously dont work for EK(airbus) or you would know training event on transition courses are not graded except one or two progress checks...
and the rest of your email is actually not true. I know plenty of people who have been given many extra chances. I dont think you can honestly name one guy that has been let for for failing one event...handing over mate
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as an American pilot at EK you are treated like a second class citizen as if you have no knowledge of aviation or flying. You are looked down on because EK considers you slack and your RT to be horrible and if you were on the RJ, your hours/experience are discriminated against by both fleet management and training
Not sure about this claim of discrimination. I would expect that from some of the folk to the east of here but from a yank - a bit surprising.
Anyway in all fairness sorry to say it but the average yank IS slack and DOES have horrible RT or they wouldn't be known for it. If the horrible RT adheres to some sort of standard in the USA well fine, I suppose, but why bring with you it to a regulatory region on the other side of the world??? Why not just do it properly here?
Discriminated against because of your standards? Frankly I'm surprised you can still find anyone who gives a fcuk in this place.
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Wright Brothers - American
Boeing - American
First Aviation Regulatory Authority - American
NASA - American
Ames Dryden - American
80 percent of the worlds air traffic operating in a world of slack pilots in one of the safest environments....what a concept.....if slack means not briefing every possible scenario that might happen but probably won't, I will take the American way any day rather than wasting my time listening to a 15 minute dissertation of diarrhea from some "non-slack" self proclaimed EK house intellectual.
80 percent of the worlds air traffic using a system of RT that is considered "slang" by the copy cats....yet with very few issues that the rest of the world has. Charlie Charlie....is that stupid phrase slang?
Maybe the rest of the world is just overly anal retentive and over-complicating something that isn't so complex in order to stroke the proverbial ego of a few small pricked pilots. After all, look at all the stupid procedures we have at EK because someone had to try to prove to their boss that they were smarter than the rest.....when in all reality the addition was a pointless time consuming distraction. If you want a specific example ask any pilot from American Airlines or Delta that flies the 777 what their pre-flight checks consist of vs ours here.
Aviation was invented in the USA....it's done properly there and in most civilized parts of the world. NOT here.
The claim of discrimination against American RJ pilots here is absolutely true. Ask any of them.
Boeing - American
First Aviation Regulatory Authority - American
NASA - American
Ames Dryden - American
80 percent of the worlds air traffic operating in a world of slack pilots in one of the safest environments....what a concept.....if slack means not briefing every possible scenario that might happen but probably won't, I will take the American way any day rather than wasting my time listening to a 15 minute dissertation of diarrhea from some "non-slack" self proclaimed EK house intellectual.
80 percent of the worlds air traffic using a system of RT that is considered "slang" by the copy cats....yet with very few issues that the rest of the world has. Charlie Charlie....is that stupid phrase slang?
Maybe the rest of the world is just overly anal retentive and over-complicating something that isn't so complex in order to stroke the proverbial ego of a few small pricked pilots. After all, look at all the stupid procedures we have at EK because someone had to try to prove to their boss that they were smarter than the rest.....when in all reality the addition was a pointless time consuming distraction. If you want a specific example ask any pilot from American Airlines or Delta that flies the 777 what their pre-flight checks consist of vs ours here.
Aviation was invented in the USA....it's done properly there and in most civilized parts of the world. NOT here.
The claim of discrimination against American RJ pilots here is absolutely true. Ask any of them.
Last edited by TransitCheck; 16th Dec 2014 at 21:03.
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On a recent PPC, the Aussie capt "checked" by his "mate" crashed not once, but three times. CRASHED, and got all five scores. But the Aussie briefed the procedure into exhaustion, so it's all cool….
He lacked basic stick and rudder skills.
I got all threes…while being ridiculed for being a "Yank" while NOT crashing
One of the Ernest Gann books talks about the pilots that die with a microphone in hand instead of flying the damn plane!
He lacked basic stick and rudder skills.
I got all threes…while being ridiculed for being a "Yank" while NOT crashing
One of the Ernest Gann books talks about the pilots that die with a microphone in hand instead of flying the damn plane!
Did you write to your training manager and explain what happened? Won't get fixed unless you do something about it.
The don
The don
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Actually I do.
Every sim or line flight under "training" is graded. If you are doing an upgrade, 3 failures(2 or less)at any point during the course and you are back to being an FO.
Therefore, even a LOS, which should be considered as training, carries risk. You will also carry any "failure" with you throughout the course. So, get a 2 during LOS 1, you will redo the entire LOS. Get a another 2 during LOS 2, you will redo the entire LOS. Fast forward 3 months to your line release check, make a mistake which the TRE does not like, you're an FO.
It is that simple. Every training event is graded and carries risk!
Every sim or line flight under "training" is graded. If you are doing an upgrade, 3 failures(2 or less)at any point during the course and you are back to being an FO.
Therefore, even a LOS, which should be considered as training, carries risk. You will also carry any "failure" with you throughout the course. So, get a 2 during LOS 1, you will redo the entire LOS. Get a another 2 during LOS 2, you will redo the entire LOS. Fast forward 3 months to your line release check, make a mistake which the TRE does not like, you're an FO.
It is that simple. Every training event is graded and carries risk!
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Ernest Gann- "Fate is the Hunter" good read. It describes his years working as a pilot at American Airlines starting in Douglas DC-2s and DC-3s when civilian air transport was in its infancy, addressing the trappings for today's so called modern aviators ok:
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don, that will go over real well….
A junior FO goes against a 15-20 year TRE who is also "mates" with the managers.
He said vs. he said.
I get all 3's go home, another six months of pay. I only fight if I get a 2 and 90% of the time get it reversed to a 3 when the TRI/TRE fails to make a reference in the manuals.
inbred "mate" nepotism and nationalistic discrimination is real.
A junior FO goes against a 15-20 year TRE who is also "mates" with the managers.
He said vs. he said.
I get all 3's go home, another six months of pay. I only fight if I get a 2 and 90% of the time get it reversed to a 3 when the TRI/TRE fails to make a reference in the manuals.
inbred "mate" nepotism and nationalistic discrimination is real.
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I thought the Oztranauts invented aviation?
you salt and butter with your popcorn?
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You are nearly there, but missed their altruistic motives. The Oztranauts not only perfected it but did so "more for your benefit than mine"!
Prefer caramel myself unless the salt is also on my margarita glass!
Prefer caramel myself unless the salt is also on my margarita glass!
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Whistlen Dan...Have to take your story with a few pounds of Salt. If you are getting solid 3's, with the occasional 2 that you have to argue yourself out of, you need to pull your socks up majorly. Stop blaming others for your lack of performance.
I have no horse in your race (neither OZ nor Yank, just a 3rd world grunt), but have come across the odd antipodean "character" in the training dept, but don't think I've ever been graded unfairly. Also flown with with lotsa yanks, some of whom have become friends, and there is a small percentage that need to do some work, or should not be here at all. Fact is, that percentage is probably the same for all nationalities represented here. A little advice for you: Don't believe everything you hear around here, and there is always 3 sides to a story.
CG
I have no horse in your race (neither OZ nor Yank, just a 3rd world grunt), but have come across the odd antipodean "character" in the training dept, but don't think I've ever been graded unfairly. Also flown with with lotsa yanks, some of whom have become friends, and there is a small percentage that need to do some work, or should not be here at all. Fact is, that percentage is probably the same for all nationalities represented here. A little advice for you: Don't believe everything you hear around here, and there is always 3 sides to a story.
CG
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I hail from the west side of the Atlantic south of the St.Lawrence river. I have been at the company long enough that I can just about take all the provident fund. When I was on the right seat I met some of those said Oz captns who briefed the **** at of everything and micro managed everyone. I did however meet some great Oz captns. I also flew with some **** captns from all over the world. Barring my initial training all the Aussie TREs I have had have all been very very good I have to confess. I may get a bit of crap for the next part but no antagonism is meant. White Americans say black Americans need to work harder , to speak better , to study more, to adapt to our world more. There is no racism it's just that blacks do not apply themselves enough. Black Americans sometimes blame the white Americans for their problems. Hmm, think I might just stop it there. Does anyone get my point ?
Exactly, it's not simple - don't generalise, there is good and not - so - good from all over. The training dept is moving forward; e.g. the fairly recent removal of grading from most transition training.
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Originally Posted by Curry Goat
Whistlen Dan...Have to take your story with a few pounds of Salt. If you are getting solid 3's, with the occasional 2 that you have to argue yourself out of, you need to pull your socks up majorly. Stop blaming others for your lack of performance.
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Ozzie think they invented everything...including aviation...I listened to hours on end of their bull****..I perceived it to be a defence mechanism..."shonky FAA licence" etc...etc...whatever turns their clock..insignificant folks really in the grand scheme of life..
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Let's face it - there's good and bad from all nationalities.
I've always been treated fairly by training with one exception - he is neither Yank nor Oz and is THE guy who is always mentioned. Got my 3 which is all that mattered with said Skygod.
f.
I've always been treated fairly by training with one exception - he is neither Yank nor Oz and is THE guy who is always mentioned. Got my 3 which is all that mattered with said Skygod.
f.
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Oldaircrew
Yes you are right. Line training and upgrade are graded. I wrote transition training is not graded.
Upgrade training has to be graded in my opinion. With regards to how many fails you can have i think that is up to the managers. A mate of mine failed his first attempt. The story he told and the story I was told by someone else were miles apart...
You know the old story...would you let your children fly with this guy?
Yes you are right. Line training and upgrade are graded. I wrote transition training is not graded.
Upgrade training has to be graded in my opinion. With regards to how many fails you can have i think that is up to the managers. A mate of mine failed his first attempt. The story he told and the story I was told by someone else were miles apart...
You know the old story...would you let your children fly with this guy?
I would when they misbehave Payscale.
A check of the seniors list doesn't show many permanent FOs, so I guess the vast majority pass command course. So is it really that bad? A lot of the pressure on course is self imposed, as there is a whole lot riding on a good result.
The don
A check of the seniors list doesn't show many permanent FOs, so I guess the vast majority pass command course. So is it really that bad? A lot of the pressure on course is self imposed, as there is a whole lot riding on a good result.
The don