Back to the future (3 ULR's)
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The change brought about because of the 380 ULR. With most N American destination going to the 380 in the next 18 months there is going to be a serious amount of ULR flying
If they give us 3 ULR hopefully the max 15 day off rule will have to go as they won't want to pay overtime.
I live in hope that they let the roster and bidding system work like in the good old days of the 340-500 ULR!
If they give us 3 ULR hopefully the max 15 day off rule will have to go as they won't want to pay overtime.I live in hope that they let the roster and bidding system work like in the good old days of the 340-500 ULR!
Lets see. 3 x JFK with SBU = 79+ hours and 12 days of work, 3 crew of course. Add 2 x night BOM = another 11 hours and 4 days of work. Add a PPC/ RTGS/ Handling Sim/ CRM/ SEP and I think the 15 day rule may just stay with us. Maybe they'll reduce it to 12 days.
They'll use the 3 x ULR for people with a few days of leave to max the hours.
They'll use the 3 x ULR for people with a few days of leave to max the hours.
Last edited by whossorrynow; 13th Aug 2014 at 15:33.
Outatowner- No Mana is just bleating because he is not EK and this is referring to EK but the thread did not say so.
The new FCI now allows for 3 ULRs, in the past - only 2 were allowed per month. When the 380 started ops with EK (with only JFK) there was a temporary FCI permitting 3 ULR per month, but it was only ever meant to be temporary until more 380 destinations were brought online.
Now, it seems, that is to be the norm
The new FCI now allows for 3 ULRs, in the past - only 2 were allowed per month. When the 380 started ops with EK (with only JFK) there was a temporary FCI permitting 3 ULR per month, but it was only ever meant to be temporary until more 380 destinations were brought online.
Now, it seems, that is to be the norm
short flights long nights
And once again our T and C are lowered.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Still trying to get my head around extension...this "factored " thing is confusing.
As predicted not in our favor...with absolutely no background information in plain English to disseminate & explain.
Completely unprofessional.
f.
As predicted not in our favor...with absolutely no background information in plain English to disseminate & explain.
Completely unprofessional.
f.
Last edited by fliion; 13th Aug 2014 at 18:08.
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Or was it re-written because too many captains simply tried to burn out the FO so they could get some extra kip?
Solution to that is simple--you get burned out then you need a seat in the back once your duty is over so make sure one is held for you if they do it.
Flew with MANY fo's recently who have been through this.
Solution to that is simple--you get burned out then you need a seat in the back once your duty is over so make sure one is held for you if they do it.
Flew with MANY fo's recently who have been through this.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Other scheduling problems.
As EK continues to add flexibility to its scheduling ability while our schedules continue to worsen. There are some very simple things EK could do to not only improve our quality of life but our increase our life spans. Last week my schedule was flipped from day to night duty 5 times. 6 months this year I have had 8 days off. I have worked every month with 7 days in a row followed by a single day off. I have dozens of fewer days off a year than office staff who work 9-3. They are squeezing the life out of us with this obscene scheduling. Not about ULRs I know, but needed to rant just the same.
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Guys, the "burn-out" policy applies to specific pairings only. They need to be specified by an FCI and right now there is only one pairing mentioned.
Not one to the NAM! Any FO accepting burn-out on such sectors is acting against the OM-A!
Not one to the NAM! Any FO accepting burn-out on such sectors is acting against the OM-A!
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We were told by the company that the 2 ULR rule was brought in by the company to reduce fatigue and time zone exposure.
I'm guessing now they can't roster the 380 guys, that suddenly ULR's and time zone exposure have become less tiring and fatiguing. Must be something to do with the excellent bunks in the 380.
3 Crew normal FTL's
To be clear the operating crew need a minimum of three hours rest to extend duty. The Augment guy doesn't need three but should be given equal if possible.. i.e over 3 hours for all pilots.
So going to PVG the augmenter may only get 2:20 hr.. as flight time is not long enough for all crew to have three hours.
Coming back all should get the same as long as its over three hours each.
Capt's should know the rules and not try this on!
F/O's should know the rules as well and not allow Capts to burn them out.
Burn out is only used one flight Lusaka-Harare. (see FCN)
Thats how I see it.
Suggestions?
I'm guessing now they can't roster the 380 guys, that suddenly ULR's and time zone exposure have become less tiring and fatiguing. Must be something to do with the excellent bunks in the 380.
3 Crew normal FTL's
To be clear the operating crew need a minimum of three hours rest to extend duty. The Augment guy doesn't need three but should be given equal if possible.. i.e over 3 hours for all pilots.
So going to PVG the augmenter may only get 2:20 hr.. as flight time is not long enough for all crew to have three hours.
Coming back all should get the same as long as its over three hours each.
Capt's should know the rules and not try this on!
F/O's should know the rules as well and not allow Capts to burn them out.
Burn out is only used one flight Lusaka-Harare. (see FCN)
Thats how I see it.
Suggestions?
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3 crew normal FTL,
It just says total in flight rest of 3 hours and it doesn't specify only for operating crew. And the 3 hours rest is to be able to extend the FDP to either max of 18 or 15 hrs (depending on crc availability or not), if the planned duty is already inside the normal FDP then there is no real need to get the 3 hours rest.
The only part where it specifically says 3 hours for operating crew is in the burnout policy which, as stated earlier, is only on approved pairings (Lusaka-Harare being the only approved so far).
It just says total in flight rest of 3 hours and it doesn't specify only for operating crew. And the 3 hours rest is to be able to extend the FDP to either max of 18 or 15 hrs (depending on crc availability or not), if the planned duty is already inside the normal FDP then there is no real need to get the 3 hours rest.
The only part where it specifically says 3 hours for operating crew is in the burnout policy which, as stated earlier, is only on approved pairings (Lusaka-Harare being the only approved so far).
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Lusaka-Harare
Lusaka Harare has been operated as a two man crew (Which is obscene.) for quite some time now. So even the "burn out policy" does not apply to any current flights. This trip was horrific with 3 crew members.
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LUN-HRE
Burn out is only used one flight Lusaka-Harare. (see FCN)
In which case both get burned out during the long night.
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The 3 man crew Non ULR Rest Strategy Card is in CH2 pg 58 South East Asia route brief.
Nothing to do with three hours each...it is equal rest.
Agreed, Burn out for FCN mentioned pairing ie HRE only at moment.
f.
Nothing to do with three hours each...it is equal rest.
Agreed, Burn out for FCN mentioned pairing ie HRE only at moment.
f.
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The original rules are here: http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublicati...2014%20ULR.pdf
They are adapted by "FRMS- A scientifically based data-driven flexible alternative to prescriptive flight and duty time limitations"
So clearly there must be some science attached to factoring, the move to 3 ULRs a month and 3 man crews!
They are adapted by "FRMS- A scientifically based data-driven flexible alternative to prescriptive flight and duty time limitations"
So clearly there must be some science attached to factoring, the move to 3 ULRs a month and 3 man crews!