THY question
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THY question
Ladies and Gents,
What is the best way to apply to Turkish Airlines? Direct through their website or through an EU agency?
Where can I find info about their recruitment process in Pprune? I did all the searches I could, but no info.
Thank you very much in advance.
What is the best way to apply to Turkish Airlines? Direct through their website or through an EU agency?
Where can I find info about their recruitment process in Pprune? I did all the searches I could, but no info.
Thank you very much in advance.
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answer of question
Did you visit Turkish airlines english web site
You should I think you will find a answer of your question
Turkish Airlines - Announcements - turkishairlines.com
You should I think you will find a answer of your question
Turkish Airlines - Announcements - turkishairlines.com
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Please tell me you are unemployed
So let me get this right. Even though in this very same Middle East forum group of threads there is more than one entire THY thread! Much less answers to questions. You also failed to spot the 8 page long Turkish Airlines thread!!! You claim to have done a search and that revealed nothing!
Notwithstanding what I am about to say below. If you cannot find the info on THY on this forum you probably deserve to go there rather than take a real job in an airline somewhere.
That thread will basically answer every single question that you could possibly have. From why you shouldn't go there unless you are unemployed and have no where else to go to how they will not pay you what they are meant to, when they are meant or fulfil the contract even close to how you were told it would pan out in your interview!
They Hate You ( Ottoman Airlines) is an interesting place to see the world and whilst I will admit the staff travel wasn't bad. Seeing your family for 3 days a month when you were promised 3 wks on 1 wk off isn't funny for a year. It isn't helped by being paid less than half of your contract rate for 5 months whilst they take you through the 2nd worst training in the world, tortuously slowly and badly and say that you receive full pay when your are fully qualified Turkish Airlines "Yabanci pilot" i.e foreign pilot.
I have a particularly fond memory of a 438 page powerpoint presentation on how they organise the Operations manuals into a newly Turkish invented system called OPS Manual A, B, C, and D and how they will lead the JAA by making these new fangled manuals available, wait for it......ONLINE!! Cue 36 fellow indoctrinees face palming.
That said if you are single and don't have young children or a wife/husband then you may see it as a better option than FR.
You do get decent route exposure over 3 continents on the short haul fleets. Do however prepare yourself for the fact that you may very often be in the cockpit with nothing other than the stale smell of cigarettes ( they smoke incessantly) from push back to chocks on regardless of rules and regs and you very often wonder how they will try and kill you next. Being an FI prior prepares you for this as you fly with child like local pilots who do not want you there, tell you so to your face and generally scare you in ways you didn't think possible.
Most of these flights start with "and another thing I learnt about the B737 when I was flying the F16 was........"
Enjoy, you will particularly enjoy the fact that you can work from SAW or IST a mere 3 hrs in traffic apart and have no time given post flight in your duty so report back the next day with 5 hrs rest for a 15 hr day to Africa. I also enjoyed the 15-18 days per month down route rest in hotels whilst I paid 2000 Euros a month for a 55 sq mtr apartment that I spent 6-8 nights a month in.
Notwithstanding what I am about to say below. If you cannot find the info on THY on this forum you probably deserve to go there rather than take a real job in an airline somewhere.
That thread will basically answer every single question that you could possibly have. From why you shouldn't go there unless you are unemployed and have no where else to go to how they will not pay you what they are meant to, when they are meant or fulfil the contract even close to how you were told it would pan out in your interview!
They Hate You ( Ottoman Airlines) is an interesting place to see the world and whilst I will admit the staff travel wasn't bad. Seeing your family for 3 days a month when you were promised 3 wks on 1 wk off isn't funny for a year. It isn't helped by being paid less than half of your contract rate for 5 months whilst they take you through the 2nd worst training in the world, tortuously slowly and badly and say that you receive full pay when your are fully qualified Turkish Airlines "Yabanci pilot" i.e foreign pilot.
I have a particularly fond memory of a 438 page powerpoint presentation on how they organise the Operations manuals into a newly Turkish invented system called OPS Manual A, B, C, and D and how they will lead the JAA by making these new fangled manuals available, wait for it......ONLINE!! Cue 36 fellow indoctrinees face palming.
That said if you are single and don't have young children or a wife/husband then you may see it as a better option than FR.
You do get decent route exposure over 3 continents on the short haul fleets. Do however prepare yourself for the fact that you may very often be in the cockpit with nothing other than the stale smell of cigarettes ( they smoke incessantly) from push back to chocks on regardless of rules and regs and you very often wonder how they will try and kill you next. Being an FI prior prepares you for this as you fly with child like local pilots who do not want you there, tell you so to your face and generally scare you in ways you didn't think possible.
Most of these flights start with "and another thing I learnt about the B737 when I was flying the F16 was........"
Enjoy, you will particularly enjoy the fact that you can work from SAW or IST a mere 3 hrs in traffic apart and have no time given post flight in your duty so report back the next day with 5 hrs rest for a 15 hr day to Africa. I also enjoyed the 15-18 days per month down route rest in hotels whilst I paid 2000 Euros a month for a 55 sq mtr apartment that I spent 6-8 nights a month in.
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VT,
Thank you for your thorough reply.
In fact I did search for THY thread but nothing came up, on my laptop I cannot access any other pages except the first one on a forum. But on my phone I got to see the posts you mentioned, so thank you.
May I ask you about yourself? Have you worked for THY before? FO/CAPT? how long? What position and company are you in now?
When you compare FR to THY, is FR that bad?
Thank you.
Thank you for your thorough reply.
In fact I did search for THY thread but nothing came up, on my laptop I cannot access any other pages except the first one on a forum. But on my phone I got to see the posts you mentioned, so thank you.
May I ask you about yourself? Have you worked for THY before? FO/CAPT? how long? What position and company are you in now?
When you compare FR to THY, is FR that bad?
Thank you.
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All that glitters is not Ottoman Gold
Murray,
I think it would be rather churlish of one to come on here and bemoan living in Istanbul and commenting on life in THY and the Ts & Cs if I hadn't been there and done it but for clarification yes for my sins I went there and did the THY pilot thing! (I'm not however sure how that wasn't clear!)
Moving on. Now you mention the comparison to FR and THY. The comparison I made was caveated by "if you are single" those 4 words are very very significant.
If you are single it doesn't matter if you only get 3 days back in UK/or wherever you call home per month. The assumption being that you would only go somewhere like Turkish as you cannot get a job elsewhere you are clearly going to go there to get the hours to move on to something like the Middle East et al.
With FR at least you would be somewhere in Europe so moving home was an easier thing and the option to move your family to live with you was also there. That was not really a possibility in Istanbul, you would be crazy to move your family there!
Is FR that bad? well it depends on if you think that you pay the airline more than the pax to be onboard is bad or not. Having already paid for your type rating, uniform, food, accommodation, security and ID cards for god's sake, the lanyard to put them on and have no contractual base and your choices for the day were with or without lubricant.
FR bases are mostly in Western Europe so I didn't have to contend with a massive cultural or climatic shock. Also everyone spoke English, as opposed to thinking that they could speak English which was a huge factor at THY where almost no one speaks English.
Though THY had many many bad things about it and the same for Istanbul there were of course good sides. The engineering was good, the flight support was excellent. You never had arguments with Ops has to how much fuel to take or not, whether to go or not go and basically as flight crew you were left to your professional judgement. If you said you weren't happy from an MEL perspective or any other then you didn't fly. That is not the case in the airlines I had flown in prior FR included. In those airlines the decision was made for you and you were told what to do or not do and if you didn't agree you got sacked, simple!
In sum though FR didn't treat the human capital very well, the training was thorough as were the procedures, it felt safe as a pilot to operate there and you may have been paid less than the local paperboy but you did not feel as if you were going to die from anything other than starvation. In THY you frequently would wonder if this was your last day on earth, scratch your head after yet another weekly TCAS or eGPWS aural call out and wonder who you had bothered in a previous life to end up having to work in a place like that. In fact it was often so scary being in THY that you yearned for the days where you went back to mosquito filled hotels working your way round the delights of Lagos, Sierra Leone, Dakar and other dream holiday locations which is what I had to do when I found myself looking for work a few years prior to that all.
Right now I'm FZ and expect to be so for the foreseeable. Do yourself a favour if you do not need to go to THY. Don't go, there are soo many other jobs now. It looked good from the outside but it wore thin pretty quickly. Granted you were more likely to get paid than being in Africa but not what you expect, or when you expect it. There is always some reason at THY why the pay is not quite as advertised. (Ah but you are training, ahhh but you LPC only on NG not on classic so you can only fly 66 of the fleet of 72 planes! So we will pay you less!!! ah but you have a degree but it is not certified by Turkish University so you will be paid as non graduate, etc etc)
There is enough info from myself and many of the chaps/chappesses I worked alongside in Thy to tell you the pros and cons but like I said if you are single then it is more of an option. If you have a family to support or need anything other than hours i.e paying etc then don't bother go somewhere else.
You have been warned!!
I think it would be rather churlish of one to come on here and bemoan living in Istanbul and commenting on life in THY and the Ts & Cs if I hadn't been there and done it but for clarification yes for my sins I went there and did the THY pilot thing! (I'm not however sure how that wasn't clear!)
Moving on. Now you mention the comparison to FR and THY. The comparison I made was caveated by "if you are single" those 4 words are very very significant.
If you are single it doesn't matter if you only get 3 days back in UK/or wherever you call home per month. The assumption being that you would only go somewhere like Turkish as you cannot get a job elsewhere you are clearly going to go there to get the hours to move on to something like the Middle East et al.
With FR at least you would be somewhere in Europe so moving home was an easier thing and the option to move your family to live with you was also there. That was not really a possibility in Istanbul, you would be crazy to move your family there!
Is FR that bad? well it depends on if you think that you pay the airline more than the pax to be onboard is bad or not. Having already paid for your type rating, uniform, food, accommodation, security and ID cards for god's sake, the lanyard to put them on and have no contractual base and your choices for the day were with or without lubricant.
FR bases are mostly in Western Europe so I didn't have to contend with a massive cultural or climatic shock. Also everyone spoke English, as opposed to thinking that they could speak English which was a huge factor at THY where almost no one speaks English.
Though THY had many many bad things about it and the same for Istanbul there were of course good sides. The engineering was good, the flight support was excellent. You never had arguments with Ops has to how much fuel to take or not, whether to go or not go and basically as flight crew you were left to your professional judgement. If you said you weren't happy from an MEL perspective or any other then you didn't fly. That is not the case in the airlines I had flown in prior FR included. In those airlines the decision was made for you and you were told what to do or not do and if you didn't agree you got sacked, simple!
In sum though FR didn't treat the human capital very well, the training was thorough as were the procedures, it felt safe as a pilot to operate there and you may have been paid less than the local paperboy but you did not feel as if you were going to die from anything other than starvation. In THY you frequently would wonder if this was your last day on earth, scratch your head after yet another weekly TCAS or eGPWS aural call out and wonder who you had bothered in a previous life to end up having to work in a place like that. In fact it was often so scary being in THY that you yearned for the days where you went back to mosquito filled hotels working your way round the delights of Lagos, Sierra Leone, Dakar and other dream holiday locations which is what I had to do when I found myself looking for work a few years prior to that all.
Right now I'm FZ and expect to be so for the foreseeable. Do yourself a favour if you do not need to go to THY. Don't go, there are soo many other jobs now. It looked good from the outside but it wore thin pretty quickly. Granted you were more likely to get paid than being in Africa but not what you expect, or when you expect it. There is always some reason at THY why the pay is not quite as advertised. (Ah but you are training, ahhh but you LPC only on NG not on classic so you can only fly 66 of the fleet of 72 planes! So we will pay you less!!! ah but you have a degree but it is not certified by Turkish University so you will be paid as non graduate, etc etc)
There is enough info from myself and many of the chaps/chappesses I worked alongside in Thy to tell you the pros and cons but like I said if you are single then it is more of an option. If you have a family to support or need anything other than hours i.e paying etc then don't bother go somewhere else.
You have been warned!!
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YOU add content! 
Geez, the cheek you have demanding like that!
Add to the discussion instead of riding on other people's coat-tails.
THAT will get the topic back up to the top again!
Geez, the cheek you have demanding like that!
Add to the discussion instead of riding on other people's coat-tails.
THAT will get the topic back up to the top again!
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Hey Rusty D,
Sadly there is no right way to leave THY early. How you actually go about doing it will depend on how long you have spent of your 365 day contract. If you are long haul fleet the process is slightly easier than if you are short haul as you are treated a little less like a child.
Suffice to say that if you need to go at lets say 6 months served as a yabanci pilot. Then my suggestion would be to get as much of your house in order as possible before you utter a word to THY. If you absolutely cannot make it to 3 months before the end of your year then you basically have to accept that you will end up owing them money or orchestrate a tactical withdrawal like below.
Assuming the contract hasn't changed too much if you take a look at paragraph 2.2.1 in your contract it basically says that if you leave for any reason at all before you first year is served you have to pay back the entire cost of your "training". I personally witnessed how some of my colleagues were treated in this instance. They basically charged them for all of their uniform, the initial 30-45 days in the hotel, their OCC (Conversion course), even their line check, joining flights and repatriation etc were all calculated and totalled up. They then cancelled their residents permit and took it back and did not even give them a repatriation flight. In sum they got stung for about 4 months salary. They stop your salary immediately, stop your ID cards working so you cannot get into ops of the Genel Mudurluk, had to pay a full fare flight home and had difficulty leaving the country as without a residents permit and no visitors visa (as you were not a visitor) immigration did not understand how you had legally entered the country!!
So personally I would decide when I was going, move out of the apartment there you live, pay of any credit cards from Crappy Kredi, and leave the account open with a zero balance. Then return everything i.e every single book, both sets of wings i.e to the last pair of socks into the THY issue roller suitcase. Then go over to the GHQ get a staff travel ticket issued.
Next pop over to a mates apartment in Yesilkoy, have a few goodbye beers, give them said suitcase. Get on the plane home and then make a phone call to your fleet manager.
FEDEX the foreign pilots department every document your "JAA/EASA" validation, THY ID cards, residents permit, etc get your mate to hand in your suitcase with every item of issued clothing.
If you cannot bring yourself to exit in this manner then go to the chemist ask for a large tube of lubricant pop over to see the foreign pilots department and break them the news. They will basically stop all staff travel, cancel everything immediately roster you for every single remaining day in Ankara, cancel all remaining leave and not help you with anything at all. You will be lucky to even get a flight home. Your pay will be stopped immediately for the next 2-3 months until they calculate any "costs" and then they will tell you how much you owe them! Forget your last few months salary as you will never see it.
Or you could just finish out your year and perhaps get out 7 days early like I did! Just do not sign the renewal of contract and make sure you get your log book stamped and a letter of permission from your fleet manager to leave with good conduct before you say you are not renewing and you will get some money a few months of threatening legal action later.
Good luck with leaving early
Sadly there is no right way to leave THY early. How you actually go about doing it will depend on how long you have spent of your 365 day contract. If you are long haul fleet the process is slightly easier than if you are short haul as you are treated a little less like a child.
Suffice to say that if you need to go at lets say 6 months served as a yabanci pilot. Then my suggestion would be to get as much of your house in order as possible before you utter a word to THY. If you absolutely cannot make it to 3 months before the end of your year then you basically have to accept that you will end up owing them money or orchestrate a tactical withdrawal like below.
Assuming the contract hasn't changed too much if you take a look at paragraph 2.2.1 in your contract it basically says that if you leave for any reason at all before you first year is served you have to pay back the entire cost of your "training". I personally witnessed how some of my colleagues were treated in this instance. They basically charged them for all of their uniform, the initial 30-45 days in the hotel, their OCC (Conversion course), even their line check, joining flights and repatriation etc were all calculated and totalled up. They then cancelled their residents permit and took it back and did not even give them a repatriation flight. In sum they got stung for about 4 months salary. They stop your salary immediately, stop your ID cards working so you cannot get into ops of the Genel Mudurluk, had to pay a full fare flight home and had difficulty leaving the country as without a residents permit and no visitors visa (as you were not a visitor) immigration did not understand how you had legally entered the country!!
So personally I would decide when I was going, move out of the apartment there you live, pay of any credit cards from Crappy Kredi, and leave the account open with a zero balance. Then return everything i.e every single book, both sets of wings i.e to the last pair of socks into the THY issue roller suitcase. Then go over to the GHQ get a staff travel ticket issued.
Next pop over to a mates apartment in Yesilkoy, have a few goodbye beers, give them said suitcase. Get on the plane home and then make a phone call to your fleet manager.
FEDEX the foreign pilots department every document your "JAA/EASA" validation, THY ID cards, residents permit, etc get your mate to hand in your suitcase with every item of issued clothing.
If you cannot bring yourself to exit in this manner then go to the chemist ask for a large tube of lubricant pop over to see the foreign pilots department and break them the news. They will basically stop all staff travel, cancel everything immediately roster you for every single remaining day in Ankara, cancel all remaining leave and not help you with anything at all. You will be lucky to even get a flight home. Your pay will be stopped immediately for the next 2-3 months until they calculate any "costs" and then they will tell you how much you owe them! Forget your last few months salary as you will never see it.
Or you could just finish out your year and perhaps get out 7 days early like I did! Just do not sign the renewal of contract and make sure you get your log book stamped and a letter of permission from your fleet manager to leave with good conduct before you say you are not renewing and you will get some money a few months of threatening legal action later.
Good luck with leaving early
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Bus Driver Man,
Try not to be so disingenuous to others experiences. Just because you were alright does not mean that every one was treated well.
I personally as explained left "correctly" and was fine. I also went and saw the fleet manager, the chief pilot and the foreign pilots department but I a served my entire year and therefore did not expect any problems.
On the other side of the house numerous colleagues were treated appallingly and had everything I said above happen to them.
To imply that we were welcome, treated equally and fairly and that there are no problems in THY is not representative of the issues to hand. When I was there there were just over 300 yabanci pilot and I knew at least 100 reasonably well. Some of those are still there, most are not and not one single pilot amongst them would agree that it was anything short of a nightmare joining, working or leaving THY. The only reason that those who are there remain is because it is more palatable than the alternative.
If you happen to be A430/B777 it is of course likely that you will see the world entirely differently as many of the problems experienced are by those on the short haul and B737 fleets specifically.
After witnessing numerous pilots try and leave correctly I personally handed over the ID cards and uniforms for many more of my colleagues who left before me who realised that it was a fairly pointless task.
So unless they genuinely have learnt from their experience and turned around how they now treat pilots lets not try and make out that THY is a bastion of fairness, equality and HR correctness.
VT
Try not to be so disingenuous to others experiences. Just because you were alright does not mean that every one was treated well.
I personally as explained left "correctly" and was fine. I also went and saw the fleet manager, the chief pilot and the foreign pilots department but I a served my entire year and therefore did not expect any problems.
On the other side of the house numerous colleagues were treated appallingly and had everything I said above happen to them.
To imply that we were welcome, treated equally and fairly and that there are no problems in THY is not representative of the issues to hand. When I was there there were just over 300 yabanci pilot and I knew at least 100 reasonably well. Some of those are still there, most are not and not one single pilot amongst them would agree that it was anything short of a nightmare joining, working or leaving THY. The only reason that those who are there remain is because it is more palatable than the alternative.
If you happen to be A430/B777 it is of course likely that you will see the world entirely differently as many of the problems experienced are by those on the short haul and B737 fleets specifically.
After witnessing numerous pilots try and leave correctly I personally handed over the ID cards and uniforms for many more of my colleagues who left before me who realised that it was a fairly pointless task.
So unless they genuinely have learnt from their experience and turned around how they now treat pilots lets not try and make out that THY is a bastion of fairness, equality and HR correctness.
VT
Last edited by Vortex Thing; 19th Jun 2014 at 10:51.
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treatment
Treat one as you would like to be treated. So I do not agree with yanbancypilot. Having said that, I do believe that you will experience hardship on your way out. Even if you have just marginally fullfilled your contract.
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Dont expect them to treat this fairly. Whatever you do make sure you give them everything back and than call according their OM A Unfit to fly from ABROAD and thats that. Than except no mail whatsover out of turkey on the address you have given them. This ofcourse is all just my humble opinion of a theoretical scenario.
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And we are talking of the Best " European" Airline.. time for a petition to have them kicked out of the category. They don't belong geographically and culturally to Europe.With this expat gig they just managed to reveal their real nature , that is essentially abusive and non inclusive, and their lack of competence even more pathetic if seen in contrast with their fixation on higher education.It will be a huge boomerang and will hit them right on the head. The king is naked.
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A degree in eggplant
Yabanci Porky,
It still seems from previous experience, now watching from afar,a degree in eggplant is better than airmanship, situational awareness, handling skills
common sense or CRM and always will be.
The "degree" the airforce "pilots" get is totally bull...t as was then and it always will be.
IYI UCUSLAR
safe and pleasant flights
It still seems from previous experience, now watching from afar,a degree in eggplant is better than airmanship, situational awareness, handling skills
common sense or CRM and always will be.The "degree" the airforce "pilots" get is totally bull...t as was then and it always will be.
IYI UCUSLAR
safe and pleasant flights
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How is the THY B737pilot's life?
I could see that some of yoU HAS INSIDE INFO.
How is the B737 pilots roster?... how many overnights at home we can expect?
And the average Flying hours is nearly 90/month
How is the B737 pilots roster?... how many overnights at home we can expect?
And the average Flying hours is nearly 90/month
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Its mainly a job for those that did not make it in real airline, furloughed,pensioner and desperados coming from ****** up outfits. Roster on 737 survivable only by locals with with big ego.. and no other options. As I hear no sign of improvement... enjoy!!
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Iyi restratlar
I did 27 nights on 3 nights off per month.
I would spend 15-18 nights per month downroute in a hotel i.e IST to Ankara to hotel to Frankfurt to Ankara to hotel to Paris to Ankara to hotel to Jeddah to two days off down route in Ankara or Antalya etc.
I.e you often get days off down route (ie every month often!)
You spend 8-10 nights in your own apartment with shorter multiple sectors and then you will get guaranteed 3 days off to go back to your family.
In the entire year from when I had everything signed off and was online. I spent 3 days a month with my family.
I would fly to UK first thing in the morning arrive home by 17:00hrs see the kids before bed, get the whole next day with the children if it wasn't a school day. Then one whole evening with the wife then next day up at the crack of dawn to get the flight back to operated early the next morning.
Expect comments such as, "It doesn't feel like were married anymore", "its like living as a single parent", " they don't like that/watch that/ eat that anymore!! Its like you don't even know your own children!"
It's basically pretty depressing and if you look through my posts you will get the feeling that I don't really do depressing I am about as happy a pilot as you get out here so what do you think the difference may be!
Agree wholeheartedly with below you go there if you are unemployed, unemployable or escaping previous misdeeds and should consider it the military equivalent to joining the French Foreign Legion!
I would spend 15-18 nights per month downroute in a hotel i.e IST to Ankara to hotel to Frankfurt to Ankara to hotel to Paris to Ankara to hotel to Jeddah to two days off down route in Ankara or Antalya etc.
I.e you often get days off down route (ie every month often!)
You spend 8-10 nights in your own apartment with shorter multiple sectors and then you will get guaranteed 3 days off to go back to your family.
In the entire year from when I had everything signed off and was online. I spent 3 days a month with my family.
I would fly to UK first thing in the morning arrive home by 17:00hrs see the kids before bed, get the whole next day with the children if it wasn't a school day. Then one whole evening with the wife then next day up at the crack of dawn to get the flight back to operated early the next morning.
Expect comments such as, "It doesn't feel like were married anymore", "its like living as a single parent", " they don't like that/watch that/ eat that anymore!! Its like you don't even know your own children!"
It's basically pretty depressing and if you look through my posts you will get the feeling that I don't really do depressing I am about as happy a pilot as you get out here so what do you think the difference may be!
Agree wholeheartedly with below you go there if you are unemployed, unemployable or escaping previous misdeeds and should consider it the military equivalent to joining the French Foreign Legion!
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Your fleet is not a fleet is a squadron!! I have never seen sorriest and more basic individuals in this business as local pilots. No life, no interests, nothing but money, car, whisky, raki, East European ladies ,and a couple of weeks in their summer house..that will be your benchmark..enjoy !! There is no civil aviation in Turkey.
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Mr Scott,
I' appreciate if you can share some info here or via PM.
I waiting for my work permit to be processed.
I have many doubts about 737 roster/ life on THY.
tnk u
I' appreciate if you can share some info here or via PM.
I waiting for my work permit to be processed.
I have many doubts about 737 roster/ life on THY.
tnk u