EK - Meydan Heights preview, get ready
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WTF?
Maybe I have dust on my funny bone…but I find that comment quite disturbing…That reference to one of the darkest times in our history has no place here…millions died in places like this, and millions more died fighting to free the world from that tyranny. Maybe you should go visit Auschwitz to help you realize how inappropriate your comment is…
You should be ashamed of yourself. Mods…consider deleting his post!
You should be ashamed of yourself. Mods…consider deleting his post!
Last edited by Left Coaster; 29th Apr 2014 at 06:30. Reason: Righteous Anger...
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Yup…to actually compare how you EK guys/girls have it to concentration camp conditions is pretty outrageous! How spoiled can some people be? Your working conditions complaints here are constant, the living conditions complaints never end, the steady "whinging" about every little change is now making you the giggling stock of most of the readers on this site…and now this…get a grip you idiots…it's just a job…do it well and shut the hell up…preferably both…Please!
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Left Coaster - I agree with all the comments, including yours, on the inappropriate use of the term C. camp.
But taking that position and lumping it into 'it's just a job...shut up and do it' is deeply flawed. (And an insult to the gravitas of the former debate)
Many of us came here contingent upon the T&Cs we were presented with during recruitment.
We had/have an expectation that if our company is healthy and profitable that we would maintain or QOL.
The co. is enormously profitable, thanks in no small part, to the hard work of its employees. But in the face of this our position both financially & personally (health, family time off etc) has deteriorated considerably.
We as a pilot group do not want the QOL to decrease even more - by moving into Accomodation that is inferior to our present set-up. That is not just a material issue - it's also emotional ie kids attachment to their friends, their rooms etc etc.
By taking the position you have - you undermine our legitimate concerns and underscore to the mgt - that in fact you are right - we should just 'shut up' and take what's given.
As long as your attitude holds steady in their eyes - the erosion will continue.
Don't undersell your career as a professional pilot with the 'it's just a job' slant - it's an affront to hear a fellow pilot describe it that way. Many of us have taken over ten years of studying, Checking, interviews, university and flawless flying records just to get a chance to interview for the LHS at this company....only to know that those amongst us too easily forget what a bumpy road that can be.
What a pity.
f.
But taking that position and lumping it into 'it's just a job...shut up and do it' is deeply flawed. (And an insult to the gravitas of the former debate)
Many of us came here contingent upon the T&Cs we were presented with during recruitment.
We had/have an expectation that if our company is healthy and profitable that we would maintain or QOL.
The co. is enormously profitable, thanks in no small part, to the hard work of its employees. But in the face of this our position both financially & personally (health, family time off etc) has deteriorated considerably.
We as a pilot group do not want the QOL to decrease even more - by moving into Accomodation that is inferior to our present set-up. That is not just a material issue - it's also emotional ie kids attachment to their friends, their rooms etc etc.
By taking the position you have - you undermine our legitimate concerns and underscore to the mgt - that in fact you are right - we should just 'shut up' and take what's given.
As long as your attitude holds steady in their eyes - the erosion will continue.
Don't undersell your career as a professional pilot with the 'it's just a job' slant - it's an affront to hear a fellow pilot describe it that way. Many of us have taken over ten years of studying, Checking, interviews, university and flawless flying records just to get a chance to interview for the LHS at this company....only to know that those amongst us too easily forget what a bumpy road that can be.
What a pity.
f.
Last edited by fliion; 29th Apr 2014 at 08:25.
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Legit
While comparing the Villas to a concentration camp could certainly be viewed as extreme, (Concentration camps were not just a WWII German thing. That's just what most people envision when they hear those words.) I think most the complaints the pilots here make are pretty correct. If you interviewed 6 or more years ago, you were told what you could expect for pay and schooling and housing. These pilots are now flying in the left seat for right seat pay. In the past 6 years their contracts have been "adjusted" so many times its not funny. The "If you don't like it leave." attitude by the management is fine if you are leaving after 2 or 3 years from United to go to Delta. But most the pilots sold houses and cars and moved halfway around the world for a package they were offered. It takes 2 or 3 years just to break even on a move like that. So moving back home is rarely an option. If 1 or 2 of the "contract adjustments" were in the pilots favor, then perhaps there would be less complaining. But when you commit your family to Emirates, (and make no mistakes, that's what you are doing.) and you see your pay and benefits and housing consistently reduced while the company continues to make record profits, perhaps their gripes are worth taking notice of. IMVHO
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Ok ok ok..you win…it is a non winnable argument in my opinion anyway. My point is that it's not just you EK pilots who are along on the race to the bottom, it's the whole damn industry. But, as you are in the sad position of not being able to do anything about it from where you are, I suppose some complaining is warranted. But jeez guys…about every little thing?
At no time was I ever putting down the hard work put in by most to get where they are in their career, I am close to the end of my own long and (mostly) good one myself, and am very familiar with what it takes to be successful and alive to enjoy retirement. From both sides of the desk. So when I say "it's just a job"? At the end of the day it really is. You work as hard as you can, be as safe as you know how, stay as healthy as you might, and when you're done, guess what? No one cares. The world thinks we are overpaid and under worked and nothing will ever change that. (They don't care how long it took for us to get where we are, or how much effort.) The people that run the airline business have figured out how to keep the free fall of our working conditions going at top speed and we are almost powerless to stop it. So in the cold light of day, it's become "just another job" to those who don't care about it. Don't get me wrong, I care very much about the act of flying. I do it with all the best people I know, with all the professionalism I can, on one of the best jets ever designed, and I am pretty damn proud of where I work. That part will never change. I fought with companies along side of my fellow pilots, and know the frustration of losing a job because of arrogant and stupid management. Really the pity is that you made a choice to join and they moved the deck chairs on you. Not "it's a pity" because I don't understand. I do. I wish you all luck…just know that your colleagues constant bellyaching is getting old.
At no time was I ever putting down the hard work put in by most to get where they are in their career, I am close to the end of my own long and (mostly) good one myself, and am very familiar with what it takes to be successful and alive to enjoy retirement. From both sides of the desk. So when I say "it's just a job"? At the end of the day it really is. You work as hard as you can, be as safe as you know how, stay as healthy as you might, and when you're done, guess what? No one cares. The world thinks we are overpaid and under worked and nothing will ever change that. (They don't care how long it took for us to get where we are, or how much effort.) The people that run the airline business have figured out how to keep the free fall of our working conditions going at top speed and we are almost powerless to stop it. So in the cold light of day, it's become "just another job" to those who don't care about it. Don't get me wrong, I care very much about the act of flying. I do it with all the best people I know, with all the professionalism I can, on one of the best jets ever designed, and I am pretty damn proud of where I work. That part will never change. I fought with companies along side of my fellow pilots, and know the frustration of losing a job because of arrogant and stupid management. Really the pity is that you made a choice to join and they moved the deck chairs on you. Not "it's a pity" because I don't understand. I do. I wish you all luck…just know that your colleagues constant bellyaching is getting old.
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So that rules out MCC and infact anything with a middle C in it.
Excpet ELC has it's connitations....
Emirates Labor Camp
Early Learning Center (for the new hires)
Enjoy Leaving Company
Emirates Likes Cheap
Everything Looks Crap
Electricity = Likely Cancer
Excpet ELC has it's connitations....
Emirates Labor Camp
Early Learning Center (for the new hires)
Enjoy Leaving Company
Emirates Likes Cheap
Everything Looks Crap
Electricity = Likely Cancer
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He's right. The Ts and Cs in the industry are steadily drifting downwards and Emirates is no exception. You may well have thought that that your QOL was guaranteed when you joined the company but many might see that assumption as somewhat optimistic. As for selling up back home and committing your family to all the pros (yes, there are some) and cons of life in the desert, well we're all big boys and girls and have to live the consequences of our decisions.
It has to be said that some EK pilots do come across as a bit whiney and institutionalised when they complain about every perceived injustice by the great benefactor. Just remember you're probably still better remunerated than you would be elsewhere and if you can avoid p!ssing it all up the wall to keep up with the Al Jones's you might have something to show for it when you finally get back to civilisation. I'm pretty sure Emirates was the most I'm ever going to paid for operating an aeroplane.
'If you don't like it, leave' may seem harsh but in a non-unionised, hard-nosed commercial organisation it really is your only option.
It has to be said that some EK pilots do come across as a bit whiney and institutionalised when they complain about every perceived injustice by the great benefactor. Just remember you're probably still better remunerated than you would be elsewhere and if you can avoid p!ssing it all up the wall to keep up with the Al Jones's you might have something to show for it when you finally get back to civilisation. I'm pretty sure Emirates was the most I'm ever going to paid for operating an aeroplane.
'If you don't like it, leave' may seem harsh but in a non-unionised, hard-nosed commercial organisation it really is your only option.
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OMG, why don't some of you put the make-up set away, please!
"Arbeit macht frei" and "Concentration Camp" are widely used metaphors to get satyrical or cynical messages over. Maybe not in the "Hello" magazine but certainly on forums and blunt discussions. No need to dress-up in that hypocritical political correctness skirt here anyway!
As to the actual thread:
Ask yourself: What is your limit on accommodation? What downgrade or uprooting would you accept? How much longer than the well established school run is bearable for your wife? How far from a power line, or from horseflies for that matter, would you bear before starting to complain?
Just consider that about five years back a skipper could take the allowance and rent or buy a 3-bedroom villa cost neutral. Today this is not even doable for a decent 2-bedroom apartment! That limits and in most cases inhibits the choice of where to live today. Meaning that you are at the mercy of the company. Choice is a very much cherished QOL at least for many of us.
Again: Where is your limit of downgrading? There certainly is one even for you and reaching it you would bitch and moan just as we are now.
Maybe this happens on a somewhat high level, depending on your expected QOL, but it is not up to you to criticise other's levels without deeper knowledge of the circumstances.
A downgrading is a downgrading and no one likes that if the profits of the other side go up!
"Arbeit macht frei" and "Concentration Camp" are widely used metaphors to get satyrical or cynical messages over. Maybe not in the "Hello" magazine but certainly on forums and blunt discussions. No need to dress-up in that hypocritical political correctness skirt here anyway!
As to the actual thread:
Ask yourself: What is your limit on accommodation? What downgrade or uprooting would you accept? How much longer than the well established school run is bearable for your wife? How far from a power line, or from horseflies for that matter, would you bear before starting to complain?
Just consider that about five years back a skipper could take the allowance and rent or buy a 3-bedroom villa cost neutral. Today this is not even doable for a decent 2-bedroom apartment! That limits and in most cases inhibits the choice of where to live today. Meaning that you are at the mercy of the company. Choice is a very much cherished QOL at least for many of us.
Again: Where is your limit of downgrading? There certainly is one even for you and reaching it you would bitch and moan just as we are now.
Maybe this happens on a somewhat high level, depending on your expected QOL, but it is not up to you to criticise other's levels without deeper knowledge of the circumstances.
A downgrading is a downgrading and no one likes that if the profits of the other side go up!
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Adolfo H.
WTF are you talking about - the T&Cs in the industry are steadily going down????
Eh no.
The two largest markets in the world - the US & China - are where the T & Cs are most definitely going up. Look at Delta and what that has done in pressuring the other US carriers to respond ...look at what is been offered in China - Spring Airlines $214k, HNA $348k.
Why? Because those markets are expanding and succeeding...just like here .
The European legacy model is contracting and receding...it IS NOT where it used to be and hence erosion.
You don't want to hold the line (figuratively speaking) ...and just take what's given? Where and what point do you find it acceptable to voice a concern.
Where is your line?
No housing?
f.
WTF are you talking about - the T&Cs in the industry are steadily going down????
Eh no.
The two largest markets in the world - the US & China - are where the T & Cs are most definitely going up. Look at Delta and what that has done in pressuring the other US carriers to respond ...look at what is been offered in China - Spring Airlines $214k, HNA $348k.
Why? Because those markets are expanding and succeeding...just like here .
The European legacy model is contracting and receding...it IS NOT where it used to be and hence erosion.
You don't want to hold the line (figuratively speaking) ...and just take what's given? Where and what point do you find it acceptable to voice a concern.
Where is your line?
No housing?
f.
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MEYDAN - WTF - How many more years of crap are families suppose to endure from a perceived better than most package. Years of construction, vibration, noise, environmental exposure, etc. Think very hard before you commit. Put your family at the top of your priotiy list.
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Is the passion still there?
I'm not trying to make enermies, but surely for most to land their offers, recruitment must have believed that it was passion, pitched with excellent ability, at the centre of their motivation to fly for Emirates.
I don't agree with the status quo either looking at things from a vantage point - as I'm not a pilot, but surely this is the time for people to make sacrifices. Sacrifices are at the centre of passion for everything. True love is passion and true love is about making sacrifices.
With due respect to each one of you and especially family members, I invite you to make sacrifices and use this chance to define the bench mark / minimum accepted standard of living so that the industry can be redeamed or gain a definition for QOL - in terms of what is expected and what is not expected since for now anything is possible (bearing in mind the lack of unions over there).
This sacrifice is a price you/we are paying for the past mistakes but as they say it can never be bad alone all the time and vice versa. Without any doubt there will be a turn in T's & C's and with some indurance and resilience this will be history.
My apologies if I've offended anybody. I'm not suggesting in favour of anything however is now the best time to negotiate?
I don't agree with the status quo either looking at things from a vantage point - as I'm not a pilot, but surely this is the time for people to make sacrifices. Sacrifices are at the centre of passion for everything. True love is passion and true love is about making sacrifices.
With due respect to each one of you and especially family members, I invite you to make sacrifices and use this chance to define the bench mark / minimum accepted standard of living so that the industry can be redeamed or gain a definition for QOL - in terms of what is expected and what is not expected since for now anything is possible (bearing in mind the lack of unions over there).
This sacrifice is a price you/we are paying for the past mistakes but as they say it can never be bad alone all the time and vice versa. Without any doubt there will be a turn in T's & C's and with some indurance and resilience this will be history.
My apologies if I've offended anybody. I'm not suggesting in favour of anything however is now the best time to negotiate?
Last edited by kirungi1; 30th Apr 2014 at 08:30.
