I'm really surprised USA and UK allow EK to fly in and out of their airspace when the pilots are exposed to attacks from the passengers whenever they visit the toilet or when they want to take a rest. That explains why they have to make a procedure for this. I sure they have been told to do it.
Shittingidly - The 380 lav policy has been in use for at least 3 years.
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anyone who pretends to understand the consequences and intent of those messages, is either an idiot
-- If I had a dollar for every time you call someone an idiot on here - well, you know the rest.
The ULR 380s don't have the policy (well they didn't) it was for the LR variants -
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Prove on paper that allocating the CRC's to the back of the plane saves X amount in weight,
The LR versions don't have a CRC.
The LR versions have two less toilets than the ULR versions, hence the policy.
The 330/340 have a toilet directly outside of the cockpit that the F or J class use, so it is absolutely no different to the 380 in terms of a potential security threat.
(incidently the CRC in the back of the ULR versions was to allow more seats up the front) not to save weight.
So there you go SI- now you have some facts to go with your rants.
I'm really surprised USA and UK allow EK to fly in and out of their airspace when the pilots are exposed to attacks from the passengers whenever they visit the toilet or when they want to take a rest. That explains why they have to make a procedure for this. I sure they have been told to do it.
And the 777 bogs are any different? So many muppets on this forum And at least you can assault the 777 lav without scaling the steps
Last edited by White Knight; 18th Dec 2012 at 19:15.
Seriously? There is no dedicated crew toilet on the 777? What a piece of sh1te
I am just surprised by the fact that the biggest civilian airliner in the world is too small to accommodate a crew toilet for the pilots. Or more correctly, that EK chose not to install one.
The reason there is a difference between LR and ULR- there are more lavs on the ULR, so it actually gets less crowded while pax wait. On an LR going to say, LHR or CDG, the lines actually get quite long, (only 3 toilets for almost as many pax not 5) hence the fwd lav is left 'open' for pax to use UNTIL one of the cockpit crew feel the call of nature. That is when the 'VIP Rope' comes into the equation. (Airbus' name for it, not EK's- their manual takes a lot of the original AB terms)
On ULR flights funnily enough the lavs seems to get less usage (prob beause everyone is out to it sleeping, whereas on Euro/UK flights lots of them stay awake to enjoy some bevvies and as many movies as they can fit in)
Aside from seats/fuel/weight issue you'll find the CRC is where it is because it allowed extra pallets of freight where the factory standard CRC would be. That info was direct from TC in a flight global article about a year ago...
Lav 'policy' (at least on the CC side) has been in place as long as I have flown on A380, coming up on just about 3 years, actually!! It's just not as rigidly followed on all flights since on the day (at least as I was told) it's up to the skipper's discretion. If s/he wants the rope up for the whole time, they can ask. It's just not recommended since it clogs up the front of the plane to have one lav out of use. (Pun not intended!!)
So technically, yes there is a dedicated crew toilet on ULR flights, since the crew are the only ones using it. But it's not inside any crew rest area, which I suppose is the technical definition of a crew-only toilet...?
Clark says the decision to put the cabin-crew rest on the main deck was basically to preserve cargo capacity. "There is not much volume on the bottom deck," he says, adding that cargo can account for up to 20% of the airline's overall income. The airline is due to take its first "medium-range" configured A380s next year that will differ mainly in that the crew rest zone will be removed and replaced with 28 economy seats, says Clark. These will be used on sectors of less than 12h. From 2010, Emirates will introduce A380s with a two-class cabin layout seating 604 passengers - 60 business and 544 economy. These will be used on "regional" routes of up to 6h from Dubai.
Hmm bit late on those 2-class then!!
Last edited by givemewings; 19th Dec 2012 at 03:01.
Reason: add link
Well I don't think anyone was totally correct or totally wrong. Ex380 is right in that the policy does not apply on ULR since the rope is up the whole time. And maybe the policy then han't been there for 3 years (as Sitting says) but it's damn close since they have had those since I've been flying on it (which is nearly 3 years. So maybe it's not quite three years but it's not much less either.
I think the problem is the fact that someone in the company seems to have a job for the sole purpose of coming up with complicated 'policies' for stuff that shouldn't be. If I am looking after the cockpit crew, I'll ask the captain what s/he wants to do regarding the lavs... some will just come out and go, some will call us and ask us to put up the rope, some wait until one of us is up there bringing food or drink then asks us to wait while they go.... at the end of the day I don't care which, it's up to the Capt on the day.
While I can't recall the layout on SQ or QF I do remember reading something about a secondary door... QF had/has same on the A330, so that the flight deck CRC could be closed off and include the FWD lav- but I never saw this done, even on 9 hour flights. So then their 330 would be exactly the same as any other a/c without a 'crew toilet'.
Personally I agree that it would be far easier for the 777 to have a problem, since there are 2 lavs plus a coat closet and no stairs.
CRC was moved not only for cargo, but for seats. It's in the article, something about the 'design of F class'. Have also heard from engineers that the water tanks for the showers come into it somewhere (Space and plumbing wise, not weight wise) I agree though I thought it weird too, but hey, who knows how they think, I'm just a humble CC what do I know?
Sitting, was that not on a 777 though? How about KLM and their rowdy bunch of 17 drunks!!
As for LH they can keep their CRC loo, bad enough havng one outside let alone in the same compartment, imagine the noise!
Last edited by givemewings; 19th Dec 2012 at 17:54.
NO, the lav policy HAS NOT been in place for 3 years,
, givemewings and I seem to disagree with you. You can say sorry.
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Wait a minute, then the CRC's being shrunk and allocated to the back of the plane did NOT save weight? Wow, then exactly why was that done? Because clearly this policy is having a detrimental operational affect. Idiot! Yah, another dollar to you.
Like givemewings says and like I was told on day one of welcome chat from chief of training, the crc was placed where it is to save seats and cargo space, not weight. So you can say sorry again.
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Where did the second toilet go by the way? Really, that is an honest question because I don't know
the extra toilets went to allow for more seats you numpty. The LR ones have more seats than the ULR ones. 517 vs 489 (I think)
Rows 41 & 42 disappear on the ULR and the lavs are there, on the LR the cabin starts with empty space at row 41 Y class (no bulkheads or curtains at the M1 doors...)
Ok some of you might think this topic is lame but one of you asked so here you go... everyting you could ever want to know about the A380 sh!tter
Before anyone starts on about 'sensitive information', none of this is anything pax don't have access to/couldn't photograph themselves, FYI... they all know where our CRC is, they always try to go do their thing as they think it is an extra large dunny!
Last edited by givemewings; 19th Dec 2012 at 17:59.
Reason: extremely crappy typing
Here's one for you. On a trip into (destination removed to protect the guilty) we went to clear the FD for descent then, the F/O came out to use the lav only to find in the minute or two the crew had been in the cockpit, someone had left a neat little turd at the top of the steps! Amazingly none of the pax in row 41 saw anything!! (Must have been one of them... )
Seriously? There is no dedicated crew toilet on the 777? What a piece of sh1te
Oh how wrong you are....there is a dedicated crew toilet on the 777..it's on the 777F, and no pesky door camera either We even get to make our own coffee
Are you trying out to be management? Arguing with arrogance, from a position of ignorance. What a display of Belligerence!
The Lav thing has been in the OMA for years. The recent FCIs at first removed one section, and then, after feedback from the line, another FCI returned things to the way they were.
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