I have just heard that the CoT Boeing for EK has confirmed that management have gone back on their promise NOT to hire any DEC's. Apparently DEC recruitment for the B777 will be formally annouced next week!
Previous DEC recruitment had an approx 75% failure rate and if this rumor is true it will be a complete reversal of the company promise to the pilot group. Looks like the Boeing fleet are in for some bad news! Watch this space!!!
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WHEN did they promise not to employ DECs? Every time I've heard it discussed by anyone in management it has been made clear they have kept that option open.
Secondly, 75% failure rate? Why would you write such tripe.
It WAS around 20%, which is bloody high, but bear in mind they took non type rated guys previously, which they can't under the current rules.
The fact that they HAVEN'T taken DECs for the last three years hass been because it really is something flight ops would rather not do, but with the amount of training slated for the coming year it would not surprise me in the least.
It's a shame, but it has always been an option and if you joined sooner than five years ago (in which case you'd have had a command by now anyway) that was clear to all.
Ho hum, next subject please, their trainset, rules etc etc.
We are commodities here to get the job done, forget loyalty or what you think we deserve. If you can't or haven't come to terms with those facts, then this aint the place for you, moreover, DEC's are just another way of getting the job done. IMHO they are a band aid to help cope with the impending airframe deliveries and will have a minimal effect on those who met the current upgrade requirements. As ever, am a mere lowly FO, so what would I know anyway?
They'll just alter the rules to suit what they want and need to do. They've done so in the past and they'll do so in the future. For those that remember, their stated policy last time was to only recruit those Captains that had 3000 hours on aircraft of the type the EK operated, they then almost immediately gave B737 and A320 rated guys the DEC jobs. At the end of the day, they'll do what they need to, to ensure they are able to operate the aircraft that they have being delivered, anybody who can't understand that fact is the moron.
As Wizofoz said, the management never promised to not hire DEC's. They have repeatedly said that they would rather not for the reasons given above, but, would keep the option to do so if they felt it was in the best interests of the company.
Quite frankly, anyone hired after Dec 2003 should have factored in the possibility of this happening....If indeed it does come to pass.
Fart Master, why do you think that way?! I have a couple friends flying with QR and they have been considering that possibility for quite some time now. They are just waiting for the right time...
I'm just a Yank, so what do I know? I know AA is in Chapter 11, has a large group of p***ed B777 cappy's that might be looking. DL guys aren't too happy, either and topping off their B777 retirements for a few years could be appealing. And AC is tottering, again. So, funny DEC issue comes up while all this happening. I don't believe in coincidence, but not a conspiracy theorist, either
And why would this even been considered? For the most part, they are running out of "qualified" (by their standards) first officers this summer, some time. At first, "fast tracked" f/o's, that had their contracts altered after arriving, will be evaluated. Then look at f/o's that didn't quite make EK's cut for upgrade, giving them another shot. The only solution, if criteria remains the same for upgrade is either DECs or delay of delivery of airframes (might be a possiblity with 380 wing issues).
The rumour I heard was for DEC TRI/TRE, obviously type rated. There's a bunch of them doing outsourced training for us already, makes them a known entity.
Still a bummer for FO's whose courses would presumably get delayed.
There's a bunch of them doing outsourced training for us already, makes them a known entity.
Coducting training doesn't mean that the instructors are experienced on type. When my company chose Airbus we were sent to Toulouse for training. Our instructor had just finished his on type training (after Retiring from the military), underwent the SFI course and we were his first gig.
In my opinion Emirates will find it hard to find the experience on type. Given their operation, worldwide international experience should suffice. I think the type rating is the easiest part of the story ( especially if CCQ). Getting to know their way of operation is the demanding part
Thought it was strange to see some older grey hair mixed in with the usual younger recruits on the 'tour' the other day.... looks like a done deal. Should be just a supplement to the normal upgrades on the 777. Take a breathe.
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Wiz, as a DEC yourself, what would you prefer to see: more DECs of the standard and motivational levels we had the last time around or some of the current crop of FOs being promoted???
Well first up, this may well be another beat up. I'm on leave and so not in touch, but while DEC TREs (I hadn't heard TRIs) have been mentioned, DECs have been openly stated by TCAS as not being what EK want, and yes, "SOME" of the last batch are the reason!
Good chance OzzyA380 has heard that and jumped to conclusions.
Think about it- upgrade a Captain to TRI, you need to replace him on line by upgrading an FO, then hire and train an FO to replace HIM- so three training events.
Still, as I said, they have always kept it as an option.
What would I prefer? Well, I'd prefer the aircraft to be crewed at a reasonable level so the hours aren't ridiculously high. Training is bulging at the seams and if they can find the right kind of DEC, that might help some.
At some point that will mean a perfectley deserving FO having his upgrade delayed, but the short term alternative may well be parked aircraft and the current Captains doing even longer hours.
Be great if they didn't have to, but it might be inevitable.
This should be a fund raising event. If someone posts "confirmed, from reliable source" rumor and it doesn't happen, than a 100 bucks should be placed in a fund to say, fight the global warming or something...legalize gambling...help the airbus 380 project...
You guys are still missing the point. All deserving f.o.s will be given the chance before DECs. If the upgrade criteria stays the same and in house "fast tracked" f.o.s are evaluated, then there just isn't anymore to upgrade, again given current criteria. And the fiasco of the last crop of DECs that keeps getting mentioned, is just an urban legend. Yes there were some difficulties, but no more than the current upgrade pass/fail rate.
And if it really gets to you, you can be sure what the answer would be.
Emirates going with DEC
Apparently DEC recruitment for the B777 will be formally annouced next week!
Fart Master, why do you think that way?!
