AD-4

It seems that if you’re management the Flight Safety Manager does not require you to fill out an ASR for an unstable approach. Where can I apply, so I don’t have to follow the “silly rules”?

How many more double standards do we have here?

fatbus

And you are surprised?

scorpio

details please

oryxbollocks

I'm sure Fubaliera doesn't mean the pilot concerned should resign. At least I hope so?

As for the double standard being set by safety, I am not in the least surprised nor do I doubt it happened as rumoured. Let's not embarrass a management pilot by having to submit an ASR for an error of judgement that would result in no serious consequences for him, but then allow the sacking of a pilot for the offence of making a legitimate Tech Log entry?

GB

Fubaliera

Of course not, I meant the Flight Safety Manager

knotaloud

He's called the SENIOR manager, safety, and STANDARDS! So I guess he thinks he can set any standard he likes. Any more info on the sacked Tunisian?

Fubaliera

Which Tunisian was fired, from the 320 or 330

oryxbollocks

320. Training Captain? So the story goes.

GB

LRD L4

I was recently in a (CRM) refresher course, subject was frustration & EGO effect. pilots where talking about had to file couple of ASRs to how dangerous to fly B777 over the Himalayas going to PVG, PEK , & improper procedure set by management, if an engine to fail (B777) will not be able to clear the tip of the mountain, stopped short of saying a crash is immanent & appx 70 billion $ worth of investment (Qatar invested) will go down the xxxx. .

I was so worried didn’t know how much my life was in danger by incompetent managers in flight ops & poor procedure . The CEO must really do something & act fast before it’s to late.
And.,

Q. Is it true that they stopped B777 outbound to the far east (PVG, KIX, PEK) over high mountain via Pakistan, ? if true, how is responsible for endangering lives’ for years?

Fubaliera

What happened, why did the tunisian Capt 320 get fired.

scorpio

@ LRD ,thats why u have escape routes when u fly along that airway cause u wouldn't clear the mountain tops with any aircraft type .

LRD R4

even though with the escape routes didn't & will NOT clear the mountain tops on B777, they had to but more restriction, but didn't seem to work !!!!

scorpio, you don't fly the B777!!!!, so plz, don't ,

Q-they stopped B777 outbound to the far east (PVG, KIX, PEK) over high mountain via Pakistan, ? if true, how is responsible for endangering lives’ for years?


.

Gulfstreamaviator

What was the great job that the engineers do to enable escape routes to work so well.

Glf

scorpio

@ LRD its true i dont fly the 777 but i fly the 330 and have been through that area many times and the escape routes are not meant to clear mountain tops but rather to follow specific corridors that will make u clear that area and thats why position accuracy is very important to make sure that the a/c will follow that specific corridor so in reality u will be between mountains not clear their tops.the escape routes over Iran airspace are a little different u do follow the airway and the vertical profile will clear mountain tops but over that part of the Himalaya clearing mountain top is not possible at all thats what i was trying to tell u no need to be rude and state that cause i dont fly 777 i dont know what i am talking about ,if ur so concerned about it why dont u ask ur fleet to clarify and if ur still not convinced go fly somewhere where they dont fly that way ,and another thing Emirates fly that way too are they also endangering lives

scorpio

@LRD L4 reading ur post again it seems u didnt even fly that way ,it was what other pilots said that made u concerned .are u even a pilot ?form ur username u seem to be a cabin crew positioned at L4 door with no clear view aha u changed ur username to R4 is that ur new post galley operator

White Knight

Gents. The higher risk factor is depressurisation, not one engine out. Check your QRH (Airbus) for time to drift-down if you follow the correct procedure.

For example, for a 330-200 from FL370 to 25000' at 200 tonnes and Green Dot the distance is 445NM, and takes 78 minutes. I can't think that the 777 is that much different, so don't get in such a flap! The Himalayas are big, but don't last for 445NM do they?

Your life is only in danger if YOU don't follow the DARD procedures

Phantom Driver

Precisely. However, currently on T7 in that area, company procedure is "4 mins at FL 290/17 mins at FL 250"....!
and you better not be off track avoiding weather.

By the way, try giving Hotan (HTN) or Kashi (KHG) a call next time you go past at night. You might be surprised at the response (or lack of). These are supposed to be boltholes in the event of dire emergencies (cargo fire, depress). The towers seem to be manned in daylight only, so you are faced with a long slog to Urumchi or Beijing (24 hour airfields), as the chances of getting someone up there pronto on a winters night to turn on lights, activate facilities etc etc at these other places are fairly slim I would imagine.

Lets not even get into the perennial Hotac issues. Combined with high terrain at these airfields, it all compounds the decision-making process. As aviators, we strive to reduce risk, but in doing so we often find ourselves at odds with the beancounters. I am not sure if they attend CRM courses, but I often wonder if we are on the same path when it comes to (not) lining up the holes in swiss cheese. We now have 3 hour ETOPS for twin engines; We are now adding ultra high terrain into that mix.

Personally, once I approach the border at Porpa (westbound at night), I go high speed to get through that area asap (to hell with low cost index),and also to increase the driftown speed margins. I also plan (in case of depress) to keep going on towards the "lower" terrain futher ahead in Pakistan, rather than turning back (over The Hump), to a China alternate (contrary to the suggested option in that part of the escape route) when you are already in Pakistan territory. Trying to cross back into Chinese airspace with attendant ATC language problems in an emergency would definitely present some challenges.

I have no doubt that these escape routes were designed (probably some time ago, with specific aircraft in mind) with the best of intentions by the engineers, but there are a few anomalies that deserve further scrutiny.

Having said all this, Eastbound over the Himalayas as dawn breaks on a clear day, provides a spectacular view. Not to be missed. VMC is never a problem.