EK Airbus DEC's?
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EK Airbus DEC's?
I heard from a recruitment pilot that EK recently hired 4 Airbus DECs. I know that this is a rumour network so I thought I would put it out here to see if anyone has heard about it. Also has anyone been given any information about another 15 pilots that are deemed "acclerated" and have jumped over us on the senority list to go to the Boeing?
If any of these rumors are in any way shape or form correct that is big trouble for us line pilots. We have been sh$# on for the last two years and where does it end? We have to contact MR ED and TCAS and express our outrage at the turn of events. With the recently announced additional dealy of the A-380 when are we ever going to get our command. Is the company just going to hire DECs into "our" seats?
If any of these rumors are in any way shape or form correct that is big trouble for us line pilots. We have been sh$# on for the last two years and where does it end? We have to contact MR ED and TCAS and express our outrage at the turn of events. With the recently announced additional dealy of the A-380 when are we ever going to get our command. Is the company just going to hire DECs into "our" seats?
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Whilst I in no way support the hiring of DECs when there are sufficiently qualified FOs to upgrade (albeit without the Company required 3 years service) I am somewhat confused about the discontent of FOs who are not upgraded ON their 3 year anniversary.
No current FOs with less than 3 years service were told at their interviews that the upgrade would take place after 3 years. The information given was a minimum of 3 years service before being eligible for upgrade.
Go ahead and be pissed off about DECs (they piss me off) but dont carry on about how hard done by you are by not getting your upgrade until you have served 3 1/2 or 4 years. It still isnt bad and in hindsight goes very quickly.
The 3 year rule was brought in when I and my colleagues were FOs; it was a change that affected us not you.
No current FOs with less than 3 years service were told at their interviews that the upgrade would take place after 3 years. The information given was a minimum of 3 years service before being eligible for upgrade.
Go ahead and be pissed off about DECs (they piss me off) but dont carry on about how hard done by you are by not getting your upgrade until you have served 3 1/2 or 4 years. It still isnt bad and in hindsight goes very quickly.
The 3 year rule was brought in when I and my colleagues were FOs; it was a change that affected us not you.
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Have a little compassion
I know, we all have our stuff affecting us, but it's totally wrong to bring in a DEC on the bus when we have 10, 12, 15K hour previous caps in the right seats. So they have only say 1500 hours jet PIC or for that matter 1999.9 hours, they know int'l ops and even more important, know EK procedures, ops and are a known quantity.
Whatever happened to you or me in the past is irrelevent, what's happening now is and wrong and is going to cause greater concern in the long term for the viability of EK. Morale and commitment are expensive things for management to be giving up, but I have a feeling they won't see that 'til it's too late.
PS. I guarantee they are lying about upgrade times to hew hires to this day.
Whatever happened to you or me in the past is irrelevent, what's happening now is and wrong and is going to cause greater concern in the long term for the viability of EK. Morale and commitment are expensive things for management to be giving up, but I have a feeling they won't see that 'til it's too late.
PS. I guarantee they are lying about upgrade times to hew hires to this day.
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So, for the rest of us peasants who are not EKer's, can someone set the record straight please about what really goes on at EK with respects to upgrade policy and how closely they follow what they stated?
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Be thankful you work for an airline that posts profits
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I bet you're a peach............
..........to fly with.
Daddy-O,
Seeing as you've felt the pain in the past, maybe you should show a little sympathy. Guys give up lots to come to EK with "promises" that are never followed through from management. In fact, i think you'd find at least 20% would go back to their old gig if they could. I'm sure you'll love parts of EK/dubai and loathe others, we all seem to. The thing i don't understand is why you get pissy with the guys who hate the current trend. It's not like we have 3000 hr pilots unable the left seat. In fact, I'd say most guys are 8-12000 hours when waiting their turn.
I agree with you, we could bail out of here in the future for a DEC position somewhere else (I know I will be!) so we can't hate you, just the system. Good luck to you and as long as you show respect, i'm sure 99% of the time, you'll get the same back.
CO
Daddy-O,
Seeing as you've felt the pain in the past, maybe you should show a little sympathy. Guys give up lots to come to EK with "promises" that are never followed through from management. In fact, i think you'd find at least 20% would go back to their old gig if they could. I'm sure you'll love parts of EK/dubai and loathe others, we all seem to. The thing i don't understand is why you get pissy with the guys who hate the current trend. It's not like we have 3000 hr pilots unable the left seat. In fact, I'd say most guys are 8-12000 hours when waiting their turn.
I agree with you, we could bail out of here in the future for a DEC position somewhere else (I know I will be!) so we can't hate you, just the system. Good luck to you and as long as you show respect, i'm sure 99% of the time, you'll get the same back.
CO
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Panama,
I don't believe anyone was ever 'promised' a command in 3 years.
What was stated at recruitment was that commands happen in order of seniority once you have reached the minimum requirements and commands are currently occuring at the 3 year point. However in the future things may be different.
Now the FOM effectively states that commands will go in order of seniority unless there are no 'qualified' F/Os; then first accelerated and then DEC guys may be used. What happened in the past was that we had DECs coming onto the bus fleet ahead of '3 year' guys. I tripped into that boat and it delayed my command by a few months. Recently we have had guys taken from the Bus to the 777 for command out of seniority with some bull**** about MFF used as an excuse.
We do however have a promise that there will be no DECs on the Bus fleet for the foreseeable future from our Rumour Buster site.
Bottom line is that if you are currently a 737 Captain with 8000hrs working for Outer Mongolian you are perceived as a better captaincy candidate by the company than a guy who has been here 2 years 364 days, has 9,000hrs, with 2,000 as a 330 Captain before arriving.
The Captain qual only counts if you had it on arrival and became a DEC. Apparently after you move back to the right seat EK arrange for a lobotomy to remove any previous command experience.
Why let ability get in the way of quals or hours? After all there are no bad pilots that are 20,000hr Captains; are there?
Over to you EK Pilot!
I don't believe anyone was ever 'promised' a command in 3 years.
What was stated at recruitment was that commands happen in order of seniority once you have reached the minimum requirements and commands are currently occuring at the 3 year point. However in the future things may be different.
Now the FOM effectively states that commands will go in order of seniority unless there are no 'qualified' F/Os; then first accelerated and then DEC guys may be used. What happened in the past was that we had DECs coming onto the bus fleet ahead of '3 year' guys. I tripped into that boat and it delayed my command by a few months. Recently we have had guys taken from the Bus to the 777 for command out of seniority with some bull**** about MFF used as an excuse.
We do however have a promise that there will be no DECs on the Bus fleet for the foreseeable future from our Rumour Buster site.
Bottom line is that if you are currently a 737 Captain with 8000hrs working for Outer Mongolian you are perceived as a better captaincy candidate by the company than a guy who has been here 2 years 364 days, has 9,000hrs, with 2,000 as a 330 Captain before arriving.
The Captain qual only counts if you had it on arrival and became a DEC. Apparently after you move back to the right seat EK arrange for a lobotomy to remove any previous command experience.
Why let ability get in the way of quals or hours? After all there are no bad pilots that are 20,000hr Captains; are there?
Over to you EK Pilot!
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Here We Go Again!!!!
We were not promised an upgrade at the 3 year point, but we were promised a fair crack at the whip after 3 years. To my mind that means following what the FOM states quite clearly.
There are upgrades from Bus to 777 but only to those whom meet EK's rather blinkered criteria of who is suitable for transition upgrades. It does not matter if you have double their command time in a reputable airline, if it is not 55tons forget it. It makes no difference if you get 5's in all your PPC's, so don't bother trying. Remember the FCI in JAN ref. this subject, can anyone tell me how it is being followed?? That is what people are pissed off about, there is NO POLICY.
For all of you out there that think that people that have done their 3 years are not being bypassed, get your heads out of the sand. The only sure thing is that as long as it is cheaper to employ DEC's it will be done and bollocks to the rest of us. Until people start walking out on this issue I can assure you nothing will be done. If you can't walk do yourself a favour and keep your blood pressure down and ignore the CLOWNS.
Remember "every dog will have his day".
There are upgrades from Bus to 777 but only to those whom meet EK's rather blinkered criteria of who is suitable for transition upgrades. It does not matter if you have double their command time in a reputable airline, if it is not 55tons forget it. It makes no difference if you get 5's in all your PPC's, so don't bother trying. Remember the FCI in JAN ref. this subject, can anyone tell me how it is being followed?? That is what people are pissed off about, there is NO POLICY.
For all of you out there that think that people that have done their 3 years are not being bypassed, get your heads out of the sand. The only sure thing is that as long as it is cheaper to employ DEC's it will be done and bollocks to the rest of us. Until people start walking out on this issue I can assure you nothing will be done. If you can't walk do yourself a favour and keep your blood pressure down and ignore the CLOWNS.
Remember "every dog will have his day".
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We can all agree that EK is b******s espeically with its lack of FOM following but can anyone tell the group in those DECs did come to the Airbus? I realize that some arseh"£$ might never have seen a Boeing and have nothing but Airbus time and still be put in a Boeing course at EK. That is still shamefully wrong but not as bad as putting DECs in the Airbuses.
Also the 15 transition pilots if they have classes on the Boeing I and many other pilots would like to know. Thanks in advance.
Also the 15 transition pilots if they have classes on the Boeing I and many other pilots would like to know. Thanks in advance.