Statins Bad press
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There's plenty of information available from researchers, doctors, and individuals, who report that statins have way too many side-effects to be as effective as the proponents claim.
Those side-effects cover such a wide range of problems, it really does make one wary about their use.
Why I will never take statins again
Statins for heart disease prevention without prior heart disease?
Those side-effects cover such a wide range of problems, it really does make one wary about their use.
Why I will never take statins again
Statins for heart disease prevention without prior heart disease?
Last edited by onetrack; 29th Sep 2015 at 10:50.
I am not a medical doctor, but I do know that the body needs cholesterol - it is a natural compound and an essential part of mammal cell membranes. It is also an essential component of the myelin sheath that is the insulation around our nerve fibres. Our bodies will manufacture cholesterol if it needs to.
We have been told for years that people with high cholesterol get heart disease, so we have all cut back on our cholesterol intake. But what if it is the other way round? What if people who HAVE heart disease manufacture lots of cholesterol to try to repair the damage to their weak hearts?
The heart diesease itself could be caused by lack of exercise. Doctors constantly tell us we should do more exercise. Any muscle - and the heart is constructed of muscle - that is not regularly used will not be maintained in peak condition by the body. The heart beats all the time of course, but if it rarely or never gets above a certain level of work, then it will become weak and then might develop faults, in the same way that a car engine that only ever sits idling in traffic will clog up.
So for example it might not have been the lorry driver's greasy spoon breakfasts that were the problem but the fact that lorry drivers sat in a chair for 12 hours and did not exercise that caused their heart problems.
So there we all are avoiding butter, full fat milk and animal fats etc to keep our cholesterol down. However perhaps our bodies are having difficulty maintaining themselves and cruically the myelin insulation around our nerves. So dementia - possibly caused by crosstalk between the nerves owing to the poor insulation - is starting to become a real problem.
Statins change the balance of cholesterol in our bodies, reducing LDL and increasing HDL, but maybe this is causing other problems, such as reducing the ability of the body to maintain itself, leading to 'premature aging' and possibly dementia?
I am just thinking aloud here. Any doctors on the forum?
We have been told for years that people with high cholesterol get heart disease, so we have all cut back on our cholesterol intake. But what if it is the other way round? What if people who HAVE heart disease manufacture lots of cholesterol to try to repair the damage to their weak hearts?
The heart diesease itself could be caused by lack of exercise. Doctors constantly tell us we should do more exercise. Any muscle - and the heart is constructed of muscle - that is not regularly used will not be maintained in peak condition by the body. The heart beats all the time of course, but if it rarely or never gets above a certain level of work, then it will become weak and then might develop faults, in the same way that a car engine that only ever sits idling in traffic will clog up.
So for example it might not have been the lorry driver's greasy spoon breakfasts that were the problem but the fact that lorry drivers sat in a chair for 12 hours and did not exercise that caused their heart problems.
So there we all are avoiding butter, full fat milk and animal fats etc to keep our cholesterol down. However perhaps our bodies are having difficulty maintaining themselves and cruically the myelin insulation around our nerves. So dementia - possibly caused by crosstalk between the nerves owing to the poor insulation - is starting to become a real problem.
Statins change the balance of cholesterol in our bodies, reducing LDL and increasing HDL, but maybe this is causing other problems, such as reducing the ability of the body to maintain itself, leading to 'premature aging' and possibly dementia?
I am just thinking aloud here. Any doctors on the forum?
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I am opposed or rather concerned about statins because I had a really good friend who was an elderly pilot in his 70s who flew with me.
A fit guy for his age who walked his dog 5 miles every day.
Within the space of a couple of months I was seriously concerned at his forgetfulness with what appeared to be dementia doing stupid things in the cockpit like attempting to turn onto 100 degrees instead of 010 to fly South to North to his homeland in Scotland.
When asked why? he simply stated that he misheard 100. I told him that he should know which direction Scotland was in. Another time he asked me to call his wife and could I remember his home number as he had forgotten.
I had a serious chat with him as he was now becoming a danger and he told me that his doctor had put him on Statins as a precaution because of his age.
He also complained of feeling tired and muscle aches so much so that he was no longer walking the dog 5 miles.
He stopped the Statins and quickly returned to normal.
I have no doubts seeing the abrupt changes that the statins were the cause and since then have eyed them with suspicion.
I also realise that the drug companies make a fortune from these drugs and won't plough money into reasons why they should not be used
So having seen the effects on my friend I would tend to believe that these drugs will cause premature ageing. At Minimum a full independent study should be made into the claims below and not by the drug companies who will stick their heads in the sand claiming all is fine?
Pace
A fit guy for his age who walked his dog 5 miles every day.
Within the space of a couple of months I was seriously concerned at his forgetfulness with what appeared to be dementia doing stupid things in the cockpit like attempting to turn onto 100 degrees instead of 010 to fly South to North to his homeland in Scotland.
When asked why? he simply stated that he misheard 100. I told him that he should know which direction Scotland was in. Another time he asked me to call his wife and could I remember his home number as he had forgotten.
I had a serious chat with him as he was now becoming a danger and he told me that his doctor had put him on Statins as a precaution because of his age.
He also complained of feeling tired and muscle aches so much so that he was no longer walking the dog 5 miles.
He stopped the Statins and quickly returned to normal.
I have no doubts seeing the abrupt changes that the statins were the cause and since then have eyed them with suspicion.
I also realise that the drug companies make a fortune from these drugs and won't plough money into reasons why they should not be used
So having seen the effects on my friend I would tend to believe that these drugs will cause premature ageing. At Minimum a full independent study should be made into the claims below and not by the drug companies who will stick their heads in the sand claiming all is fine?
Statins prevented stem cells from performing their main functions, to reproduce and replicate other cells in the body to carry out repairs.
The researchers found the statins prevented stem cells from generating new bone and cartilage.
They also found they increased ageing.
Professor Izadpanah said: “People at high risk of heart disease can reduce this risk by taking statins. However, considering the adverse effects of these drugs and their association with so many side effects, it is crucial people are fully aware of the risks before they take the treatment.”
The researchers found the statins prevented stem cells from generating new bone and cartilage.
They also found they increased ageing.
Professor Izadpanah said: “People at high risk of heart disease can reduce this risk by taking statins. However, considering the adverse effects of these drugs and their association with so many side effects, it is crucial people are fully aware of the risks before they take the treatment.”
Last edited by Pace; 28th Sep 2015 at 20:33.
Just an other digit
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Statins
Give me a break.
The practice nurse saw high bad cholesterol and prescribed Simvastatin.
Within days I felt the effects. Could not fully wake up before 11 am despite getting up at 8.
Finally saw a real doctor. Medic to TA Norfolk. He said if it's that bad just stop it.
So I did and felt better next day.
Give me a break.
The practice nurse saw high bad cholesterol and prescribed Simvastatin.
Within days I felt the effects. Could not fully wake up before 11 am despite getting up at 8.
Finally saw a real doctor. Medic to TA Norfolk. He said if it's that bad just stop it.
So I did and felt better next day.
Simvastatin ?
Yep, me too.
Same symptoms so I stopped.
Never felt better, oh, and a couple of weeks ago walked the Cotswold Way in 7½ days !
I’m still concerned about what’s apparently going on though………
I’m 76 now and have always understood that your blood pressure will naturally increase a bit with age anyway but with no ill effects……..
Yep, me too.
Same symptoms so I stopped.
Never felt better, oh, and a couple of weeks ago walked the Cotswold Way in 7½ days !
I’m still concerned about what’s apparently going on though………
I’m 76 now and have always understood that your blood pressure will naturally increase a bit with age anyway but with no ill effects……..
Like with any medication statins come with SEs. If you experience any adverse symptoms then of course stopping intake is advisable.
However, the claims made in the above article are rather spurious and not backed up by sound scientific evidence. In contrast, there is ample data from several thousands of patients suggesting that statins reduce cardiovascular events. For now, the latter clearly outweighs the former.
With regards to cholesterol, yes of course we need it. But what we do have is better in the HDL rather than the LDL variety. Moreover, there is evidence that the beneficial effects of statins are mediated not only by the lowering of cholesterol but also through other so-called pleiotropic effects on the blood vessels.
I would strongly suggest that you continue taking your medication if you are on statins unless you experience SEs, in which case get in touch with your GP. There are alternative medications if you can't tolerate them.
(COI: medically qualified...)
However, the claims made in the above article are rather spurious and not backed up by sound scientific evidence. In contrast, there is ample data from several thousands of patients suggesting that statins reduce cardiovascular events. For now, the latter clearly outweighs the former.
With regards to cholesterol, yes of course we need it. But what we do have is better in the HDL rather than the LDL variety. Moreover, there is evidence that the beneficial effects of statins are mediated not only by the lowering of cholesterol but also through other so-called pleiotropic effects on the blood vessels.
I would strongly suggest that you continue taking your medication if you are on statins unless you experience SEs, in which case get in touch with your GP. There are alternative medications if you can't tolerate them.
(COI: medically qualified...)
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I'm convinced statins are up there with the broad street pump, mosquito nets and immunisations, but perhaps the point of "diminishing returns" may have been met 
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I was advised to take statins and they prematurely aged me with muscle loss, nerve problems, cramps and many other side affects. I couldn't climb into my own aircraft and wouldn't fly because of sudden cramp in the legs. After stopping I notced an immediate improvement but estimate that it has taken me a full 2 years to get rid of the after effects.
I am fitter now than I was 10 years ago and at age 75 hope to continue flying for at least another 5 years.
I am fitter now than I was 10 years ago and at age 75 hope to continue flying for at least another 5 years.
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There has to be confidence in what the medical world says and there has been enough smoke around Statins to cause a lot of concern on whether the benefits out way the negatives of taking these drugs.
You have to remember that the same medical world not long ago were pushing these drugs to be taken by everyone and perfectly healthy people over the age of 50.
Then we hear new claims on how dangerous statins are and how crippling they can be. We see post after post by ordinary people stating what awful, crippling side effects they are experiencing yet this is brushed aside by the medical world claiming that all is wonderful in the garden with these drugs.
There maybe benefits to some who tolerate the drugs and who have serious heart disease but when we see the medical world trying to promote Statins for mass consumption and medication is it no wonder that the ordinary laymen looses confidence in what the medical world are saying in the drugs defence and become suspicious of both the knowledge and motivation behind those assurances?
Pace
You have to remember that the same medical world not long ago were pushing these drugs to be taken by everyone and perfectly healthy people over the age of 50.
Then we hear new claims on how dangerous statins are and how crippling they can be. We see post after post by ordinary people stating what awful, crippling side effects they are experiencing yet this is brushed aside by the medical world claiming that all is wonderful in the garden with these drugs.
There maybe benefits to some who tolerate the drugs and who have serious heart disease but when we see the medical world trying to promote Statins for mass consumption and medication is it no wonder that the ordinary laymen looses confidence in what the medical world are saying in the drugs defence and become suspicious of both the knowledge and motivation behind those assurances?
Pace
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for anyone having aches and pains in joints or muscles whilst taking statins, you should talk to your doctor/chemist about taking a daily CoQ10 capsule. The statins block the cascade reaction in your body which produces CoQ10, and that is why your joints and muscles hurt. Good CoQ10 available everywhere...cost about 80c per day for the capsule. Ask your doctor for further advice if required.
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I guess a lot of people can't remember what a fantastic, great drug, thalidomide was in the late 1950's and early 1960's.
Side effects? No! - no known serious side effects, just keep on taking it, the benefits are huge!!
Side effects? No! - no known serious side effects, just keep on taking it, the benefits are huge!!
Last edited by onetrack; 1st Oct 2015 at 12:17.
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All you want to know about statins is on spacedoc.com.
I was a victim and needed at least two or three tries to copy a simple frequency. By the time the last digits were spoken by ATC I had forgotten some of the preceding ones. Very embarassing, even unsafe in my opinion.
No gain; lots of pain.
I was a victim and needed at least two or three tries to copy a simple frequency. By the time the last digits were spoken by ATC I had forgotten some of the preceding ones. Very embarassing, even unsafe in my opinion.
No gain; lots of pain.
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My doctor put me on statins some years ago after having a blood test which revealed high cholesterol. I had no noticable side effects so after 3 months I had another blood test to check how the cholesterol was going. Liver enzymes were almost off the scale with my GP saying that she was surprised I wasn't bright yellow!
We argued about the cause with me saying it must be the statins as I was OK 3 months ago before I started taking them - she disagreed so I stopped taking them and changed doctor. Another blood test and a liver scan 3 months later - back to normal.
We argued about the cause with me saying it must be the statins as I was OK 3 months ago before I started taking them - she disagreed so I stopped taking them and changed doctor. Another blood test and a liver scan 3 months later - back to normal.
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See a real specialist
It's not a good idea to ask a doctor to prescribe BP or Cholesterol lowering drugs. See a good cardiologist and get all the tests done including full blood analysis and the bike game.
Trying to measure BP correctly is very difficult, so it's good to take your own readings (After reading up on the subject) and then keep a graph.
All drugs have side effects and Satans drugs are bad in that respect. If your blood results are not good, CHANGE YOUR DIET unless the specialist insists you need to pop pills in addition.
Trying to measure BP correctly is very difficult, so it's good to take your own readings (After reading up on the subject) and then keep a graph.
All drugs have side effects and Satans drugs are bad in that respect. If your blood results are not good, CHANGE YOUR DIET unless the specialist insists you need to pop pills in addition.
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Tomahawk
I wonder why so many Doctors ignore their patients and stick so rigidally to the party line? Is it indoctrination, slick marketing by the multi $billion drug companies or what?
I wish a fraction of what is spent producing drugs was spent finding cures. Drugs for life equal big business cures don't
But as shown in this small thread all in the garden is not beautiful concerning Statins and a lot of patient confidence is being lost by ignoring what patients are saying
Pace
I wonder why so many Doctors ignore their patients and stick so rigidally to the party line? Is it indoctrination, slick marketing by the multi $billion drug companies or what?
I wish a fraction of what is spent producing drugs was spent finding cures. Drugs for life equal big business cures don't
But as shown in this small thread all in the garden is not beautiful concerning Statins and a lot of patient confidence is being lost by ignoring what patients are saying
Pace
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I wish a fraction of what is spent producing drugs was spent finding cures. Drugs for life equal big business cures don't
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A cure is something in the body which is not functioning in the correct way and rectifying that. The body should be able to rectify and control itself in a correct fashion. If something goes wrong it cannot do that. A cure is returning the body to where it can
An example is HBP which is not fully understood. Some people can be slim healthy, exercise a lot and still suffer with HBP. Others can be fat eat all the wrong things don't exercise yet show low BP readings.
a cure would be a full understanding of why and putting that right rather than using life long drugs with side effects to artificially lower it.
The same with HIV? Eliminate the Virus from the body which is causing the problems rather than medicate to keep people going?
There must be hundreds of examples including Cancer where we can imagine a cure rather than drugs
I am not medically qualified although I would have liked to have followed that path so maybe I am way off course in my thinking and while I realise that many drugs help people in an absence of a cure some have had very bad effects.
One poster mentioned thalidomide considered a safe drug and we all know the results of that?
Lastly where large sums of money are involved as in the drug industry there will naturally be suspicion?
I am sure in 50 years time Cancer will be treated differently and people then will look back and say that in 2015 they were so antiquated and lacking knowledge that they used to bombard the body with highly toxic drugs to extend peoples lives as we do at blood letting centuries ago
Pace
An example is HBP which is not fully understood. Some people can be slim healthy, exercise a lot and still suffer with HBP. Others can be fat eat all the wrong things don't exercise yet show low BP readings.
a cure would be a full understanding of why and putting that right rather than using life long drugs with side effects to artificially lower it.
The same with HIV? Eliminate the Virus from the body which is causing the problems rather than medicate to keep people going?
There must be hundreds of examples including Cancer where we can imagine a cure rather than drugs
I am not medically qualified although I would have liked to have followed that path so maybe I am way off course in my thinking and while I realise that many drugs help people in an absence of a cure some have had very bad effects.
One poster mentioned thalidomide considered a safe drug and we all know the results of that?
Lastly where large sums of money are involved as in the drug industry there will naturally be suspicion?
I am sure in 50 years time Cancer will be treated differently and people then will look back and say that in 2015 they were so antiquated and lacking knowledge that they used to bombard the body with highly toxic drugs to extend peoples lives as we do at blood letting centuries ago
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 1st Oct 2015 at 18:07.
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Well we know it can cause diabetes surely thats bad enough in itself ?
Read a number of comments in this small thread and they should be enough for concern.
Think to the example given of Thalidomide in this thread? A drug which was proclaimed to be safe. If Today many would say where is the evidence as you are saying?
with Statins there is enough smoke to consider a fire and enough similar reports in even this small thread to give concern ?
So maybe your question of what does the evidence say should be replaced by where is the evidence that disproves the claims of patients in this thread and the claims of the research scientist below
so I would rather see the evidence that the scientist is wrong
Pace
Read a number of comments in this small thread and they should be enough for concern.
Think to the example given of Thalidomide in this thread? A drug which was proclaimed to be safe. If Today many would say where is the evidence as you are saying?
with Statins there is enough smoke to consider a fire and enough similar reports in even this small thread to give concern ?
So maybe your question of what does the evidence say should be replaced by where is the evidence that disproves the claims of patients in this thread and the claims of the research scientist below
Statins prevented stem cells from performing their main functions, to reproduce and replicate other cells in the body to carry out repairs.
The researchers found the statins prevented stem cells from generating new bone and cartilage.
They also found they increased ageing
The researchers found the statins prevented stem cells from generating new bone and cartilage.
They also found they increased ageing
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 1st Oct 2015 at 21:10.
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My point, Pace, is that a "cure" is never without consequences.
You can "cure" appendicitis by means of a fairly straightforward operation. But a few people will suffer side effects of said "cure" and be worse off.
So, as Gingernut wisely asks: "What does the evidence say?" To get the answer you try different things, find out what treatment works the best for the greatest number of afflictees.
You may well be right about cancer treatment 50 to 100 years from now. If fact I might even agree with you. But all we have to go on is what we know NOW.
Two things I'm sure of, though: Firstly, making a decision for a large group based on what worked for a couple of people is folly. And Second, seeking a magic cure with no side effects is also folly (See: Colloidal Silver; Krebiozen; Hydrazine; Lydia Pinkham's Wonder Tonic; etc.)
You can "cure" appendicitis by means of a fairly straightforward operation. But a few people will suffer side effects of said "cure" and be worse off.
So, as Gingernut wisely asks: "What does the evidence say?" To get the answer you try different things, find out what treatment works the best for the greatest number of afflictees.
You may well be right about cancer treatment 50 to 100 years from now. If fact I might even agree with you. But all we have to go on is what we know NOW.
Two things I'm sure of, though: Firstly, making a decision for a large group based on what worked for a couple of people is folly. And Second, seeking a magic cure with no side effects is also folly (See: Colloidal Silver; Krebiozen; Hydrazine; Lydia Pinkham's Wonder Tonic; etc.)