Medical & HealthNews and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME.
On the basis of my experience. in UK (Gatwick) I did not saw any computer to do Corneal mapping and they did not any special examination at my cornea. So I assume if you don't tell them nothing they are not able to find the l@ser intervention. But Lasik and other l@ser corrections are allowed, if you are inside limits before the intervention so why don't tell them? Since l@ser is allowed, is better to admit about the intervention because before practice the visit, you have to sign a paper with your story and there is explicity a question :"Do you had any l@sers/lasik intervention at your eyes"? If you declare NO, you do a false declaration....I don't know what happen. And even if you pass your initial and in the future will emerge you did l@ser, should be a BIG BIG problem. Much better tell them as first thing. I did my l@ser (RPK) 8 year ago, and no problem at all: 1 class no restrictions. When you do l@ser, clearly before the l@ser intervention, the doctor write your clinic state, included pre-operative myopia and astigmatism: AME will want a copy of this paper. Thats all.
Of course there should be no problem to admit l@ser/lasik if you fall within limits. Problems come when you're out of those limit before eye surgery.
Can somebody tell me if CAA UK is stricly applying the JAA limits or do they evaluate each situation? I know about the astigmatism limit pre-operation is 2.0 dioptres for first visit. What if I do lasik with 2.25 or 2.50 and have slight miopia (less thank 3 dioptres), any chance to pass? Anyone did have experience like this? I don't want to cheat but I'll do my best to get class 1. Do I have more chance if I already hold an italian class 1 and going to UK after surgery for first time visit? I cannot either do renuwal in italy because don't hold CPL yet and I'm looking forward to do surgery and fly over to the UK. Any information about this topic will be of help. Thanks!
NO WAY in Italy. In Italy is not permitted to do l@ser, so if you did l@ser and have 0,05 astigmatism and 0,05 myopia, you will be out anyway. Due that i went in UK. ITALY does not apply JAR FCL-3 even if is a JAA nation.
UK apply strictly the limits for initial!!!! If you are outside limits I suggest:
1 - Ask to AME: if they said you can do it even outside limits and you will be alright if the visit will be ok....you are ready to fly!!
2 - If they said " NO, even with l@ser you will not be able to gain 1 class"...well, I suggest to go in USA, get 1 class (you will get it in USA, don't worry) and do CPL FAA. Then come back in UK and go to gatwick: they, on the basis of CPL/1 class ICAO (FAA), will apply to you the renewal limit (no limits for astigmatism and -8 for myopia) even if is a initial.
3 - Don't tell them nothing! And Hopefully does not happen anything in the future.
Thank you mau mau, I never considered option n. 2, and it seems to be the best solution. Do you have a link to FAA medical requirements? So, if I got it right if I get an FAA CPL with of course an FAA class 1 after the training I can apply for a JAA-UK class 1 and they will apply the renuwal restriction even if I did never show up at gatwick before? After that convirt FAA into JAA and be able to fly in Italy-Europe? Sounds cool.
Then come back in UK and go to gatwick: they, on the basis of CPL/1 class ICAO (FAA), will apply to you the renewal limit (no limits for astigmatism and -8 for myopia) even if is a initial.
Are sure that renuwal limits are -8 for myopia and no limits for astigmatism? I though it was 3.0 for astigmatism and 5.0 for myopia or did they change it recently?
Seems to be the official eye requirment to obtain an FAA class 1 medical certificate. It seems strange but I can't find any myopia/astigmatism restriction !! Is that true? Would be great. I want to be sure about this and about the fact that converting to JAA they do not apply any specific restriction for astigmatism.
But why do you want to work in Italy??! This is a shit place to fly and the airlines as well. Anyway regarding FAA requirements, you will find everything you need on website. Regarding limits in UK look at follow:
"JAR Class 1 The initial refractive error (correction) limit is +5/-6 dioptres. There is no myopic limit for revalidation/renewal. The astigmatism (distortion) and anisometropia (difference between the eyes) initial limits are 2 dioptres, but there are no limits for revalidation/renewal. NOTE: contact lenses must be worn if the anisometropia exceeds 3 dioptres."
PS: If you hold a FAA CPL, it's not their roule to apply renewal limit....BUT.... They are more free to examine you carefully and apply at their own discretion the limits of renewal. And 90% they will try to meet your need. Without cpl FAA (icao) instead, they shall scrupulously keep the limits for initial.
After a successful LASik surgery many of my colleagues kept on asking me about “is LAsik painful?” and I always told them that its not, a bite of an ant is more painful than LASik. Anyway, I want to share to everyone here who are planning to have the same procedure but skeptical about the pain, I will tell you that its NOT painful, because you will receive anesthetic eye drops prior to your LASIK treatment which should prevent from feeling any discomfort, though some people do experience a slight sensation of pressure on their eyes during the procedure. Once you return home after LASIK, it is normal for some patients to experience mild discomfort, watery eyes, light sensitivity or blurry vision. These symptoms are usually temporary and treatable with over the counter medication, such as Tylenol. Hope it helps you folks.
Don't forget that if you've previously held any CAA medical certificate and you were required to wear corrective lenses/spectacles, the AME may ask a few searching questions if you turn up for a renewal/reissue and are able to see unaided.
Until recently, it used to be the case that the CAA required you to undertake a period of time away from flying/controlling to ensure that satisfactory stability of the eyes.
When I did my initial Class 1 they took a picture of my eyes, measuring the thickness of the cornea etc. The first thing the lady asked me when she looked at the screen was; how long is it since you had l@ser surgery performed?
I think the required wait before you can apply for a Class 1 medical after you had LASIK done is minimum 6 months. They are however not interested in what your vision was pre-LASIK, only what your vision is uncorrected (and corrected if needed) at the time you do your medical.
Be honest with your AME, playing tricks and covering up things will only come back to you the bad way.
I belive there are, or might be, some small variations from country to country regarding the different limits and wait-times etc.
What I said in my previous post about the pre-op vision is not entirely correct. Your vision pre-op, at least for the UK, should be no worse than +5/-6, but if you're just outside you can discuss your case with the CAA Medical Department.
I'm looking for some pilots who can share experiences regarding the initial JAR medical examination for monocular pilots. As I have a waiver issued by the FAA (SODA) for a class III medical, I've been flying for around four years now (200+ TT). Therefore, I would like to see how I can apply for JAR medical somewhere in Europe as well. JAR doesn't seem to be as relaxed about this matter as the FAA, but I would still like to give it a try. British CAA seems to be more open to this than some other authorities.
If there is someone here with useful vision in one eye and flying with a JAR medical, I would appreciate a (personal) message.
When JAR regulations were introduced I think it was very difficult for monocular pilots to meet medical standards. Things may have eased a little since. Some JAR states (the UK was one) have continued to allow pilots to fly within their areas of juridisdiction if they already held a licence, issuing a Class Two with licence limitations - my licence is only valid in the UK unless I obtain written permssion from other states. Other states may not have fully aligned to JAR- I belive France still licences private pilots in accordance with ICAO class two, which may allow monocular vision under certain circumstances with restrictions. In the UK we currently have a national licence which is regulated by driver standards and allows monocular flying.
Best thing to do is to contact the JAR Authority where you wish to fly (e.g. DGAC in France the CAA in the UK, LBA in Germany)
All this will change in the period 2012-2015 when EASA takes over Flight Crew Licensing in Europe. It may then be possible to meet the standard for a LAPL (Light Aeroplane Pilots Licence) with monocular vision subject ot a flight test, and if ICAO Class Two standards are adopted, for a Private Pilts Licence but the machine is still turining on this.
Alternatively find an N-reg aeroplane to fly- there are loads here in the UK though the rules for flying these may also change under EASA
EASA is also my big hope. Nevertheless, it might be worth giving it a try under JAR. Maybe flight experience helps to convince one of the national authorities in Europe.
I'm currently flying N-regs here. That works out pretty well for me. But as you said, this opportunity might also not be there anymore once EASA rules are in effect. That's what I'm basically concerned about. Otherwise, I would simply stick to my FAA certificate.
German is LBA is pretty hopeless. They are strict about everything, and to my knowledge they won't even consider special issuance in a case like mine. I wonder how national licenses like the N-PPL in UK will be transformed into EASA licenses. That will be particularly interesting in case of e.g. monocular pilots. Maybe the rest of EASA could benefit from that.
More comments and opinions are welcome (you can also PM me).
- Got my initial FAA 3rd class medical in 2006, carrying restriction: "only for student pilot purposes". Got it from Oklahoma as my AME had to defer the decision due to no useful vision, left eye (< 20 /200). I could solo with this medical, but had to take a MFT (medical flight test) before doing the check ride. Passed both, received a SODA and unrestricted 3rd class medical and, of course, the PPL ASEL certificate
- Having accumulated roughly 250 TT, wanted to apply to initial JAR class 2. Forget about German CAA (the LBA), they won't even consider. Sent an eye examination report to UK CAA, got approval to go ahead with the rest of the initial examination. That was done with an UK AME. Had to do a MFT again and received a class 2 medical with an AGL restriction: "valid only with approved eye protection". Apparently that means that if I'm flying in any zero / neg G condition or open cockpit, that protection has to be worn. Still have to do some research on this.
FAA is the way to go for the very initial medical with monocular vision. Most other CAAs are more restrictive than the FAA. But: Once you have some decent PIC solo time other authorities will more likely consider you. Flight experience really is the door opener in this case. And it's easiest to start off with a FAA medical for this purpose.
Will try to get a (restricted) JAR class 1 medical after some more years of flying, and possibly also a FAA class 2 / 1.
PM me if you have questions. And don't be discouraged by people telling you that you cannot fly. You can.