Collective Colour Vision Thread 4
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everyone.
I'm just here to share with you my experience at the City University.
I know that I am CVD since I was 10, because my mom showed me the Ishihara test and I failed. I decided to go to City after searching on the internet and it was worth it.
I took the tests today, so I don't currently have the full results, but I know the most important part, I passed the CAD test. The first run was 'borderline', so I retook the test two other times and the score was then under the threshold (I got a result of about 11 SN for protan deficiency). As many people have said before, it has nothing to do with the youtube version (I can see the square all the time on it), but I didn't find it too difficult, I was quite relaxed and I was confident despite the first run was a fail. She told me to make an effort on the CAD, because for protan people is the most 'simple' test to pass, if not the only one.
The HW lantern and the Nagel anomaloscope were quite hard to me, I failed the lantern (because she told me) but I don't know the exact results of the anomaloscope, but I think that it will be a fail.
If anyone has questions don't hesitate to ask me, I'm happy to help any future pilot with a color vision deficiency.
I'm just here to share with you my experience at the City University.
I know that I am CVD since I was 10, because my mom showed me the Ishihara test and I failed. I decided to go to City after searching on the internet and it was worth it.
I took the tests today, so I don't currently have the full results, but I know the most important part, I passed the CAD test. The first run was 'borderline', so I retook the test two other times and the score was then under the threshold (I got a result of about 11 SN for protan deficiency). As many people have said before, it has nothing to do with the youtube version (I can see the square all the time on it), but I didn't find it too difficult, I was quite relaxed and I was confident despite the first run was a fail. She told me to make an effort on the CAD, because for protan people is the most 'simple' test to pass, if not the only one.
The HW lantern and the Nagel anomaloscope were quite hard to me, I failed the lantern (because she told me) but I don't know the exact results of the anomaloscope, but I think that it will be a fail.
If anyone has questions don't hesitate to ask me, I'm happy to help any future pilot with a color vision deficiency.
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all,
I recently attended City University for testing. I had known I was CVD in the classic red/green area for some time, but thought it to be an extremely minor case. Turns out I was wrong and I failed a few of the tests, including (most importantly) the CAD test by quite some margin. I received a score of 12 with the Class 1 threshold obviously being 6. To say I am heartbroken is an understatement. With this is mind, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, it has been very useful and interesting.
Does anyone have any advice on what my next step should be/ what are my options are in the realm of flying (if any at all!
)?
As with most people who have posted their story on this thread, I am more than willing to answer any questions on the CVD testing should an answer be sought!
I recently attended City University for testing. I had known I was CVD in the classic red/green area for some time, but thought it to be an extremely minor case. Turns out I was wrong and I failed a few of the tests, including (most importantly) the CAD test by quite some margin. I received a score of 12 with the Class 1 threshold obviously being 6. To say I am heartbroken is an understatement. With this is mind, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, it has been very useful and interesting.
Does anyone have any advice on what my next step should be/ what are my options are in the realm of flying (if any at all!
)? As with most people who have posted their story on this thread, I am more than willing to answer any questions on the CVD testing should an answer be sought!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
Posts: 272
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Minty,
Your next steps:
1. Understand that your CVD would not put you at any disadvantage in safely performing the duties of a civilian pilot. Other countries have had even severe CVD pilots captaining airliners for over 20 years without incident.
2. Understand you have now joined a long list of individuals who have suffered unjustified discrimination by your prejudiced aviation authority.
3. Study the CVDPA website. Get legal advice. Start a class action.
Your next steps:
1. Understand that your CVD would not put you at any disadvantage in safely performing the duties of a civilian pilot. Other countries have had even severe CVD pilots captaining airliners for over 20 years without incident.
2. Understand you have now joined a long list of individuals who have suffered unjustified discrimination by your prejudiced aviation authority.
3. Study the CVDPA website. Get legal advice. Start a class action.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAD test
Hello everyone again.
Some in this thread said that the CAD test had been discontinued by EASA, or something like this.
I found out that the reality is that some new amendments concerning the part-MED should be approved in Q2 2016 and one of these amendments is the introduction of the CAD test as an AMC.
Well, it's just an information that maybe can be useful to someone who wants to get a class 1 out of the UK.
Some in this thread said that the CAD test had been discontinued by EASA, or something like this.
I found out that the reality is that some new amendments concerning the part-MED should be approved in Q2 2016 and one of these amendments is the introduction of the CAD test as an AMC.
Well, it's just an information that maybe can be useful to someone who wants to get a class 1 out of the UK.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Age: 34
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Minty,
At the City Uni, did you do the PAPI test?
If this test is passed, you could start an appeal procedure. I plan on doing that myself. I've done 10 hours flying at night as PIC with an instructor. I've also done a "medical flight test" with regards to identifying lights at night.
With a stack of evidence in my favour, I'm interested to see what feedback I'll get.
It'll probably be the start of a lengthy appeal, but at the end of the day, as mentioned in previous posts, they won't have and conflicting evidence to say I am a liability whilst flying in the dark.
At the City Uni, did you do the PAPI test?
If this test is passed, you could start an appeal procedure. I plan on doing that myself. I've done 10 hours flying at night as PIC with an instructor. I've also done a "medical flight test" with regards to identifying lights at night.
With a stack of evidence in my favour, I'm interested to see what feedback I'll get.
It'll probably be the start of a lengthy appeal, but at the end of the day, as mentioned in previous posts, they won't have and conflicting evidence to say I am a liability whilst flying in the dark.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey RONTOM,
I'd love to stay in touch about your progress. I've fallen foul of CAA and the CAD test and I'd love to work with like minded people to get some sort of overruling on the way they currently approach the testing. Maybe we can share email addresses etc?
I recently moved to Canada and out of curiosity checked the colour vision requirements. Here, you can do the Farnsworth D-15 Test (which I've passed) but also, they AME here told me 'you categorically don't have a colour vision deficiency' after i got 14/15 of the Ishihara plates correct. 14/15 would have me on CAD at the CAA...
I'd love to stay in touch about your progress. I've fallen foul of CAA and the CAD test and I'd love to work with like minded people to get some sort of overruling on the way they currently approach the testing. Maybe we can share email addresses etc?
I recently moved to Canada and out of curiosity checked the colour vision requirements. Here, you can do the Farnsworth D-15 Test (which I've passed) but also, they AME here told me 'you categorically don't have a colour vision deficiency' after i got 14/15 of the Ishihara plates correct. 14/15 would have me on CAD at the CAA...
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Age: 34
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Will,
I'd certainly like to keep in touch. I'd be more than happy to keep you updated with regards to my colour vision testing over here in the UK.
Yeah the only tests now that the CAA accept under MED.B.075 are:
Ishihara (First 15/24 have to pass)
CAD testing
Anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivelant)
Lantern testing (Beyne, Holmes-Wright or Spectrolux)
Unfortunately doing the D-15 at the city Uni may only help in an appeal.
I'd certainly like to keep in touch. I'd be more than happy to keep you updated with regards to my colour vision testing over here in the UK.
Yeah the only tests now that the CAA accept under MED.B.075 are:
Ishihara (First 15/24 have to pass)
CAD testing
Anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivelant)
Lantern testing (Beyne, Holmes-Wright or Spectrolux)
Unfortunately doing the D-15 at the city Uni may only help in an appeal.
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Medical exam
Hey all just a quick question has anybody undergone the cad colour blind test failing the standard plate test, I am going to take my class one medical at gatwick in the coming weeks but have a slight colour deficiency, hopefully if I'm successful am looking to enrol on an integrated course hopefully with cae Oxford any help or advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: EU
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
City Univ. Exam - How to book
Hello delax95.
I'm trying to book this exam that you done, but they are not returning my emails. I'm using the address [email protected]
Could you help me? How did you book your exam?
How much you paid?
Thank you very much.
I'm trying to book this exam that you done, but they are not returning my emails. I'm using the address [email protected]
Could you help me? How did you book your exam?
How much you paid?
Thank you very much.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North West England
Age: 55
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Possibly a silly question
Hi all
New poster here. I've read all 21 pages and learnt a lot. I want to start PPL training after failing my Class 1 Medical on CVD grounds back in the mid 90s. Sorry - I actually got a restricted Class 1 which was pretty much the same result at the time. (I'd done 6 hours on PA38s at that point - then regretfully gave it up)
So the silly question is:
Can you hold both an unrestricted LAPL Medical (and subsequently licence) AND a restricted Class 2 (and subsequently PPL?) at the same time?
I.E. fly Night with LAPL privileges, but fly IMC daytime with PPL privileges? Or as the PPL is a "higher" level licence does that override the LAPL? On balance being able to fly IMC during the day is probably more useful than flying VFR night occasionally (especially in the Summer months).
Thoughts anybody? Thanks!
New poster here. I've read all 21 pages and learnt a lot. I want to start PPL training after failing my Class 1 Medical on CVD grounds back in the mid 90s. Sorry - I actually got a restricted Class 1 which was pretty much the same result at the time. (I'd done 6 hours on PA38s at that point - then regretfully gave it up)
So the silly question is:
Can you hold both an unrestricted LAPL Medical (and subsequently licence) AND a restricted Class 2 (and subsequently PPL?) at the same time?
I.E. fly Night with LAPL privileges, but fly IMC daytime with PPL privileges? Or as the PPL is a "higher" level licence does that override the LAPL? On balance being able to fly IMC during the day is probably more useful than flying VFR night occasionally (especially in the Summer months).
Thoughts anybody? Thanks!
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North West England
Age: 55
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I should also say that I agree with the posters saying that CVD discrimination is wrong and we ought to support the CVDPA (which I have done) to end these outmoded rules
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello Rodolfo.
The email is correct, they didn't reply to me the first time I wrote the email, so maybe you can try another time.
The booking is via mail only i think.
The total price is 200 £, to be paid on the estore before attending the assessment.
I hope they will reply to you soon.
The email is correct, they didn't reply to me the first time I wrote the email, so maybe you can try another time.
The booking is via mail only i think.
The total price is 200 £, to be paid on the estore before attending the assessment.
I hope they will reply to you soon.
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Durham, UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
City CAD testing
As an aspiring pilot, I am as many other CVDs worried about the implications my CVD will have on a potential career.
Before I go into spending potentially thousands of pounds on training I would like some feedback on what I would and would not be restricted in doing as a CVD pilot, for example, how would I be restricted if I managed to pass the CAD test for a Class 1 aviation medical, which would title me as colour safe? No night flying? No IR? etc.
Secondly, I was planning on booking an appointment with City to take the CAD test to see if I will be able to pass the medical. If I pass at City, can I take this pass to the CAA medical with me, or would I need to pass their test too?
Finally, is the CAD test now used to EASA medicals?
I greatly appreciate all replies,
Before I go into spending potentially thousands of pounds on training I would like some feedback on what I would and would not be restricted in doing as a CVD pilot, for example, how would I be restricted if I managed to pass the CAD test for a Class 1 aviation medical, which would title me as colour safe? No night flying? No IR? etc.
Secondly, I was planning on booking an appointment with City to take the CAD test to see if I will be able to pass the medical. If I pass at City, can I take this pass to the CAA medical with me, or would I need to pass their test too?
Finally, is the CAD test now used to EASA medicals?
I greatly appreciate all replies,
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello.
If you get an unrestricted class 1, passing the CAD test for example, you have no limitations, you will be just like any other class 1 holder.
I did take the CAD test at City University and I was told to bring my results to CAA and that it would have been ok (unfortunately I can't be sure about this because I decided to do an Italian medical, but again that is what I was told).
For the last question, at the moment the CAD test is not recognised by EASA but I found out that it should be approved by the end of 2016.
If you get an unrestricted class 1, passing the CAD test for example, you have no limitations, you will be just like any other class 1 holder.
I did take the CAD test at City University and I was told to bring my results to CAA and that it would have been ok (unfortunately I can't be sure about this because I decided to do an Italian medical, but again that is what I was told).
For the last question, at the moment the CAD test is not recognised by EASA but I found out that it should be approved by the end of 2016.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you pass the CAD test, the UK CAA would controversially issue you an unrestricted EASA medical and of course you'd be able to obtain a CPL/IR etc. Why do i say controversially? because the regulations governing EASA licencing and medical matters are found in:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...eu-no-11782011
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...1R1178&from=EN
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...bin%20crew.pdf
more specifically:
colour vision testing - MED.B.075:
Ishihara (First 15/24 have to pass)
Anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivelant)
Lantern testing (Beyne, Holmes-Wright or Spectrolux)
As you can see the CAD is not an approved test for EASA medicals, no matter what the CAA says: having said it is happy to disregard it - in fact the CAA is the only authority in Europe to use it. This is a major issue actually because EASA regulations are binding laws.
If i were you, I would a) get the CAD test done, at least you know were you stand; b) assuming you passed it, get a class one medical; c) assuming it all goes well and you're still keen, get flying
that's correct
you probably got told this from the CAA - they've been doing it since 2012 - but actually no one can say for sure, especially now. As i said above, EASA regulations are binding laws which have to be discussed/approved by the European Parliament and enacted by the European Council (the EU in few words). Even though EASA may want to implement the CAD, the change in the regulations would have to be discussed and voted by the EU first - i don't believe this process and started yet. In all honesty, with this BREXIT mess i am not so sure it will happen either. Also, remember the CAD equipment/licence fee is very expensive (£4000 plus) and the CAA, being the major investor and promoter would get a 'cut' from the sale of the test (conflict of interest).
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...eu-no-11782011
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...1R1178&from=EN
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...bin%20crew.pdf
more specifically:
colour vision testing - MED.B.075:
Ishihara (First 15/24 have to pass)
Anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivelant)
Lantern testing (Beyne, Holmes-Wright or Spectrolux)
As you can see the CAD is not an approved test for EASA medicals, no matter what the CAA says: having said it is happy to disregard it - in fact the CAA is the only authority in Europe to use it. This is a major issue actually because EASA regulations are binding laws.
If i were you, I would a) get the CAD test done, at least you know were you stand; b) assuming you passed it, get a class one medical; c) assuming it all goes well and you're still keen, get flying
that's correct
you probably got told this from the CAA - they've been doing it since 2012 - but actually no one can say for sure, especially now. As i said above, EASA regulations are binding laws which have to be discussed/approved by the European Parliament and enacted by the European Council (the EU in few words). Even though EASA may want to implement the CAD, the change in the regulations would have to be discussed and voted by the EU first - i don't believe this process and started yet. In all honesty, with this BREXIT mess i am not so sure it will happen either. Also, remember the CAD equipment/licence fee is very expensive (£4000 plus) and the CAA, being the major investor and promoter would get a 'cut' from the sale of the test (conflict of interest).
That's the file I found about the CAD test, I had never spoken with CAA.
What do you think about this file?
Thank you.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for the really long answer, it is really helpful!
Lucky me I managed to pass the anomaloscope, because here in Italy the CAD test, as you said, it's not approved yet.
I hope that it will be soon, so that CVD people that manage to pass it will be guaranteed an unrestricted class 1.
Lucky me I managed to pass the anomaloscope, because here in Italy the CAD test, as you said, it's not approved yet.
I hope that it will be soon, so that CVD people that manage to pass it will be guaranteed an unrestricted class 1.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Age: 34
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NZ
I see NZ are possibly adopting a more practical approach to CVD testing.
https://www.caa.govt.nz/medical/colo...on_report.html
https://www.caa.govt.nz/medical/colo...on_report.html
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Paris
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EASA Opinion 09/2016
Hi guys, first message here !
I just saw this :
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...easa-downloads
the draft annex is available here :
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...Commiss....pdf
We can read in it :
and few pages after :
Here you can find the :
Draft acceptable means of compliance (AMC) and guidance material (GM) to Part-MED
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...%20only%29.pdf
As you can see, CAD test has been included as said in the Comment Response Document.
It's time to wait for the decision.
Sorry for my english, not perfectly fluent yet
.
What do you think about these information ?
I just saw this :
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...easa-downloads
the draft annex is available here :
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...Commiss....pdf
We can read in it :
If a night rating is added to a PPL or LAPL, the licence holder shall be colour safe.
MED.B.075
Colour vision
(a)
Applicants shall be required to demonstrate the ability to readily perceive the colours that are necessary for the safe exercise of the privileges of the
applicable licence(s).
(b)
Examination and assessment
(1)
Applicants shall pass the Ishihara test for the initial issue of a medical certificate.
(2)
Class 1 medical certificates:
(i)
Notwithstanding (b)(1), applicants for a class 1 medical certificate who do not pass the Ishihara test shall be referred to the licensing authority and shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.
(ii)
Applicants for a class 1 medical certificate shall be normal trichromats or shall be colour safe.
(iii)
Applicants who fail further colour perception testing shall be assessed as unfit.
(3)
Class 2 medical certificates:
(i)
Notwithstanding (b)(1), applicants for a class 2 medical certificate who do not
pass the Ishihara test shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.
(ii)
Applicants who do
not have satisfactory perception of colours shall be limited to
exercising the privileges of the applicable licence(s) in daytime only
Colour vision
(a)
Applicants shall be required to demonstrate the ability to readily perceive the colours that are necessary for the safe exercise of the privileges of the
applicable licence(s).
(b)
Examination and assessment
(1)
Applicants shall pass the Ishihara test for the initial issue of a medical certificate.
(2)
Class 1 medical certificates:
(i)
Notwithstanding (b)(1), applicants for a class 1 medical certificate who do not pass the Ishihara test shall be referred to the licensing authority and shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.
(ii)
Applicants for a class 1 medical certificate shall be normal trichromats or shall be colour safe.
(iii)
Applicants who fail further colour perception testing shall be assessed as unfit.
(3)
Class 2 medical certificates:
(i)
Notwithstanding (b)(1), applicants for a class 2 medical certificate who do not
pass the Ishihara test shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.
(ii)
Applicants who do
not have satisfactory perception of colours shall be limited to
exercising the privileges of the applicable licence(s) in daytime only
Draft acceptable means of compliance (AMC) and guidance material (GM) to Part-MED
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...%20only%29.pdf
This limitation allows holders of a class 2 or LAPL medical certificate with varying degrees of colour deficiency, to exercise the privileges of their licence by daytime only.
AMC1 MED.B.075
Colour vision
(a)
At revalidation and renewal examinations, colour vision should be tested on clinical indication.
(b)
The Ishihara test (24 plate version) is considered passed if the first 15 plates, presented in a random order, are identified without error.
(c)
Those failing the Ishihara test should be examined either by:
(1)
anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less, or if the anomalous quotient is acceptable; or by
(2)
lantern testing with a Spectrolux, Beynes or Holmes-Wright lantern. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with accepted lanterns; or by
(3)
Colour Assessment and Diagnosis (CAD) test. This test is considered passed if the threshold is less
than 6 standard normal (SN) units for deutan deficiency, or less than 12 SN units for protan deficiency. A threshold greater than 2 SN units for tritan deficiency indicates an acquired cause which should be investigated.
Colour vision
(a)
At revalidation and renewal examinations, colour vision should be tested on clinical indication.
(b)
The Ishihara test (24 plate version) is considered passed if the first 15 plates, presented in a random order, are identified without error.
(c)
Those failing the Ishihara test should be examined either by:
(1)
anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less, or if the anomalous quotient is acceptable; or by
(2)
lantern testing with a Spectrolux, Beynes or Holmes-Wright lantern. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with accepted lanterns; or by
(3)
Colour Assessment and Diagnosis (CAD) test. This test is considered passed if the threshold is less
than 6 standard normal (SN) units for deutan deficiency, or less than 12 SN units for protan deficiency. A threshold greater than 2 SN units for tritan deficiency indicates an acquired cause which should be investigated.
It's time to wait for the decision.
Sorry for my english, not perfectly fluent yet
.What do you think about these information ?
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Age: 34
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lantern Testing Criteria
Can anyone tell me what the "pass" criteria is for the Lantern Testing is? To my understanding it was 1 error allowed for the three runs? Though, I think I've been led to believe totally wrong information. I sat the full set of colour testing at the City University back in June. My results for the Lantern Testing part both bright and dimmed down show two errors in both first runs, which I've recently been informed as the practise run. For runs two and three it's showing one error on both bright and dimmed versions? Does this count as a pass? If so, is is it as simple as giving the report to the CAA and they lift my VCL restriction? Or do I need to get in touch with the Uni for anything?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!